"AK WILKS: Ted Kaczynski was NOT in Illinois for any of the confirmed Zodiac murders or mailings. There is no proof that he was and he is currently being investigated for the Zodiac crimes."

I didn’t suggest Ted was in Illinois AK, or any other State for that matter. My question is one that I ask in reference to the article. The article doesn’t claim to know where Ted Kaczynski was, it claims to know where he was not. (ie, California).

"The statement is based solely on an interview David Kaczynski gave to the FBI in 1996, some 27 years after the fact"

I don’t think this article is relating to Ted supposedly being in Illinois based on the Ted’s Brothers assertions for the following reasons.

1. The writer of this article on Ted obviously has his reasons/sources to print that Ted was out of State on Five occasions when Zodiac was active. The writer does not mention Kaczynski being in the State of Illinois.

2. I really do not think that, if the article writer were basing his claims on David Kaczynski’s testimony, the writer would constitute this as ‘Proof’ of Ted’s absence from California on the Five occasions.

And finally, the writer seems to suggest that one of the main reasons FBI & LE ruled Ted out is due to his absence from Cali on the Five occasions. If this is true, then FBI & LE are not going to do so based on David’s claims.

Where is the "proof"? The author apparently copied from Tom’s website.

The ONLY information I have is that the statement is based on David’s interview to the FBI. If you or Tom or this author have other proof that Ted was somewhere else, let’s see it.

I can’t respond to "proof" that I cannot see.

Based on discussions I have had with law enforcement, it was David’s statements to the FBI that gave rise to this claim that Ted was away from California. I have provided the evidence, including Ted’s own statements, which refute David’s "hazy" and "vague" memories.

Ted is currently being investigated for Zodiac and other crimes and his DNA and other evidence is being sought. If there was concrete proof he was not in CA during Z activities this would not be happening. Also Ted’s attorney said alibi’s for Zodiac dates "cannot" be provided.

AK Wilks
Chief

Many years back Doug Oswell wrote the following letter to Ted Kaczynski asking for proof of an alibi for Zodiac murder and mailing dates. He never got an answer. Also, an attorney for Ted told a writer that they could not provide an alibi for any of these dates – not that they would not, but that they could not.

The first Unabomber crime was in 1978, yet in the early seventies Ted recorded that he had already engaged in "violent rebellion" against society. In September 1966 Ted recorded the "breakthrough" moment in his life, when he decided to "REALLY kill everyone I hated".(Emphasis in original). The people he hated included "bigshots", scientists, big businessmen, police – but also "rowdy college students" promiscuous women who are "pigs, animals" and "noisy" love making couples.

Had Ted supplied an alibi for any of the key Z dates, that would end speculation about him being Z.

This is the letter:

Mr. Kaczynski:

My name is Douglas Oswell. For the past five years I have been researching the similarities between the Unabomber and a world-renowned criminal styled “Zodiac,” who became a pop-culture icon in the late 1960s through a series of sensational murders and correspondences with the press.

At this juncture I have uncovered no evidence that would forge a definite link between the activities of the Unabomber and those of Zodiac. Authorities at both the state and federal level have written off the likelihood of any such connection. Nevertheless it is undeniable (even by the detractors of a connection) that many similarities exist.

I have been advised that it would be unfair to suggest such a connection without offering you the opportunity to defend the reputation of the Unabomber and the philosophy for which he stood. To that end I would like to present you with a list of dates and ask that you provide accounts of your whereabouts for as many of those dates as possible. A valid alibi for even a single date, backed by documentary evidence, would be sufficient to prove conclusively that there is no linkage whatsoever between the sordid crimes of Zodiac and the more principled (albeit terrible) activities of the Unabomber.

Here is the list of dates in question:

Month
Day
Year

December
20
1968

July
4—5
1969

July
31
1969

August
1—8
1969

September
27
1969

October
11—13
1969

November
8—9
1969

December
20
1969

April
20
1970

April
28
1970

June
26
1970

July
24
1970

July
26
1970

October
5
1970

October
27
1970

March
13
1971

March
22
1971

Alibis for the following dates, while helpful, would not be conclusive in discounting a connection:

Month
Day
Year

June
3—6
1963

February
3—6
1964

October
30
1966

November
1
1966

April
30
1967

October
22
1969

March
22
1970

Please bear in mind that any alibi should be backed either by documentary evidence or the word of a reliable individual. In the latter case I would appreciate receiving from you a letter or letters of introduction that will establish my credibility to any such person.

It is only fair to state that I do not consider your brother, David Kaczynski, to be a reliable individual for the purpose of establishing an alibi. In 1990, based on conversations with your brother, a friend of his wrote a heretofore unpublished novel about “a Berkeley professor’s war with technology.” Within that novel the fictional "Berkeley professor" committed murder to promote his worldview, thus anticipating the actual truth long before the Unabomber entered the public imagination.

Whatever the case, I will publish your response in such a way that it may be freely accessed by any interested person.

There is an advantage to you in this. The entire world is aware that you have risked your life to disprove the notion that the Unabomber’s actions were not philosophically motivated, but simply the result of a deviant or warped psychology. I must frankly tell you that the postulated linkage between Zodiac and the Unabomber has grown and persisted in the past five years. Indeed, it shows signs of strengthening in the years to come. I fear that if this theory is not thoroughly refuted, posterity will know the Unabomber not for his principled stand against technology, but for his similarity to a sick and sordid criminal who murdered minor children to assuage his sexual frustrations and shore up a foundering ego. The Zodiac Killer is widely known as “America’s Jack the Ripper.” The Unabomber is fast becoming the “favorite suspect" in a mystery that, because it remains unsolved, will endure for many years to come. You alone can divest him of that distinction.

I thank you for your attention to this matter and encourage you to respond. Enclosed is a small amount of money ($5.00) to defray the cost of postage and stationery.

Sincerely,
Douglas E. Oswell
————————————-
Doug told me he never got a reply to this letter.

If TK was NOT the Zodiac, it would be so easy for him to blow this whole idea out of the water, by producing a timecard, a paycheck, class attendance sheet, a letter, postmarked envelope, a photograph, a witness.

Doug told me another writer got a response from Ted’s attorney that NO ALIBI for the above dates could be produced.

linda
Sergeant

Sounds like the letter must have gotten through if someone got a response from Ted’s attorney regarding no alibi being available. I’ve always found it interesting that in the Unabomber case itself, the period of time from Ted’s college years until 1978 seem to be brushed over. If there had been a trial, maybe some more about these years would have come out, but since he plead guilty, these years are presented almost as a blur…

AK WILKS:

onewhoknows asked: "Dear AK have you ever sent a letter to TK and asked him if he is the Zodiac? Just wondering"

AK: I have not yet, but in the first post you can see what happened when Doug Oswell did.

Ted did not respond.

This still cracks me up!

Apparently Ted Kaczynski is the only person left in the world besides Robert Graysmith who thinks Allen was the Zodiac.

Ted relies on the fact that according to him "law enforcement authorities concluded I had no connection with the Zodiac case."

Yep thats Ted, always a big believer in how right the law enforcement authorities are! This from the man who said the "FBI isn’t going to catch [me] anytime soon. The FBI is a joke."

AK Wilks
Chief

Many years back Doug Oswell wrote the following letter to Ted Kaczynski asking for proof of an alibi for Zodiac murder and mailing dates. He never got an answer. Also, an attorney for Ted told a writer that they could not provide an alibi for any of these dates – not that they would not, but that they could not.

The first Unabomber crime was in 1978, yet in the early seventies Ted recorded that he had already engaged in "violent rebellion" against society. In September 1966 Ted recorded the "breakthrough" moment in his life, when he decided to "REALLY kill everyone I hated".(Emphasis in original). The people he hated included "bigshots", scientists, big businessmen, police – but also "rowdy college students" promiscuous women who are "pigs, animals" and "noisy" love making couples.

Had Ted supplied an alibi for any of the key Z dates, that would end speculation about him being Z.

This is the letter:

Mr. Kaczynski:

My name is Douglas Oswell. For the past five years I have been researching the similarities between the Unabomber and a world-renowned criminal styled “Zodiac,” who became a pop-culture icon in the late 1960s through a series of sensational murders and correspondences with the press.

At this juncture I have uncovered no evidence that would forge a definite link between the activities of the Unabomber and those of Zodiac. Authorities at both the state and federal level have written off the likelihood of any such connection. Nevertheless it is undeniable (even by the detractors of a connection) that many similarities exist.

I have been advised that it would be unfair to suggest such a connection without offering you the opportunity to defend the reputation of the Unabomber and the philosophy for which he stood. To that end I would like to present you with a list of dates and ask that you provide accounts of your whereabouts for as many of those dates as possible. A valid alibi for even a single date, backed by documentary evidence, would be sufficient to prove conclusively that there is no linkage whatsoever between the sordid crimes of Zodiac and the more principled (albeit terrible) activities of the Unabomber.

Here is the list of dates in question:

Month
Day
Year

December
20
1968

July
4—5
1969

July
31
1969

August
1—8
1969

September
27
1969

October
11—13
1969

November
8—9
1969

December
20
1969

April
20
1970

April
28
1970

June
26
1970

July
24
1970

July
26
1970

October
5
1970

October
27
1970

March
13
1971

March
22
1971

Alibis for the following dates, while helpful, would not be conclusive in discounting a connection:

Month
Day
Year

June
3—6
1963

February
3—6
1964

October
30
1966

November
1
1966

April
30
1967

October
22
1969

March
22
1970

Please bear in mind that any alibi should be backed either by documentary evidence or the word of a reliable individual. In the latter case I would appreciate receiving from you a letter or letters of introduction that will establish my credibility to any such person.

It is only fair to state that I do not consider your brother, David Kaczynski, to be a reliable individual for the purpose of establishing an alibi. In 1990, based on conversations with your brother, a friend of his wrote a heretofore unpublished novel about “a Berkeley professor’s war with technology.” Within that novel the fictional "Berkeley professor" committed murder to promote his worldview, thus anticipating the actual truth long before the Unabomber entered the public imagination.

Whatever the case, I will publish your response in such a way that it may be freely accessed by any interested person.

There is an advantage to you in this. The entire world is aware that you have risked your life to disprove the notion that the Unabomber’s actions were not philosophically motivated, but simply the result of a deviant or warped psychology. I must frankly tell you that the postulated linkage between Zodiac and the Unabomber has grown and persisted in the past five years. Indeed, it shows signs of strengthening in the years to come. I fear that if this theory is not thoroughly refuted, posterity will know the Unabomber not for his principled stand against technology, but for his similarity to a sick and sordid criminal who murdered minor children to assuage his sexual frustrations and shore up a foundering ego. The Zodiac Killer is widely known as “America’s Jack the Ripper.” The Unabomber is fast becoming the “favorite suspect" in a mystery that, because it remains unsolved, will endure for many years to come. You alone can divest him of that distinction.

I thank you for your attention to this matter and encourage you to respond. Enclosed is a small amount of money ($5.00) to defray the cost of postage and stationery.

Sincerely,
Douglas E. Oswell
————————————-
Doug told me he never got a reply to this letter.

If TK was NOT the Zodiac, it would be so easy for him to blow this whole idea out of the water, by producing a timecard, a paycheck, class attendance sheet, a letter, postmarked envelope, a photograph, a witness.

Doug told me another writer got a response from Ted’s attorney that NO ALIBI for the above dates could be produced.

linda
Sergeant

Sounds like the letter must have gotten through if someone got a response from Ted’s attorney regarding no alibi being available. I’ve always found it interesting that in the Unabomber case itself, the period of time from Ted’s college years until 1978 seem to be brushed over. If there had been a trial, maybe some more about these years would have come out, but since he plead guilty, these years are presented almost as a blur…

AK WILKS:

onewhoknows asked: "Dear AK have you ever sent a letter to TK and asked him if he is the Zodiac? Just wondering"

AK: I have not yet, but in the first post you can see what happened when Doug Oswell did.

Ted did not respond.

This still cracks me up!

Apparently Ted Kaczynski is the only person left in the world besides Robert Graysmith who thinks Allen was the Zodiac.

Ted relies on the fact that according to him "law enforcement authorities concluded I had no connection with the Zodiac case."

Yep thats Ted, always a big believer in how right the law enforcement authorities are! This from the man who said the "FBI isn’t going to catch [me] anytime soon. The FBI is a joke."

IMO the handwriting is a clear match. First time I see this letter, is there any high res and without the envelope on it?

QT

Letters that imo are a match:

I like in I’ll
l like in I’ll
Z like in Zodiac
f like in of
Th like in The
victims is similar to victoms

etc.

Thanks QT. I agree. Unfortunately I do not have a high res of the "authorities determined I had nothing to do with Zodiac" letter, or one without the enevelope.

To me the shared word/phrase usage and the handwriting matches are incredible.

Gary Greenberg noted that Ted Kaczynski would often sign his letters with a large "Z" underneath the signature. He wondered if this was like a "Mark of Zorro". I have never seen anything to indicate Kaczynski would have been a fan of those old adventure films. Ted also told a psychiatrist he had an "obssession" with a "Ms. Z" during his gradute school years, though no evidence suggests he had a relationship with any woman, let alone one woth a last name starting with a "Z". Was "Ms. Z" his codeword for Zodiac? Ted also spraypainted a Yggdrasil symbol, also known as the Algiz Rune, at the campus of a target. The Algiz Rune translates to English as the letter "Z". In a yearbook Ted indicated his "mark" was two crossed lines inside a circle, suggesting a rough early prototype of the Zodiac symbol. Is the large "Z" under his name meant to conjure up Zodiac?

Zodiac often but not always did a 3 stroke "k", Kaczynski often but not always did a 3 stroke "k". Zodiac often did a 5 stroke "m", same as Ted. Other matches include the checkmark "r", short caps and bottom on the capital "I" and frequent cursive looped back on the "d". Look at Ted’s "k" in "Park" – a clear 3 stroke. Morrill said few people in the general population do 3 stroke "k" or 5 stroke "m" so those would be things he would look for. I also blew up the Ted letter to the boy.

GRAPHICS AND RESEARCH BY AK WILKS AND AWESHUCKS – A HANDWRITING COMPARISON – ZODIAC AND KACZYNSKI

From Doug Oswell, the Application Bio by Kaczynski to the U Cal Berkeley, December 1966.

The writing looks particularly Zodiac like to me, compare it to the Belli letter.

Thanks..this is very good stuff..

Is it true as the OP said that a document examiner ruled TK a non match to Z’s handwriting? I had not heard that before.

Is it true as the OP said that a document examiner ruled TK a non match to Z’s handwriting? I had not heard that before.

For $500 you could get a certified "document examiner" to rule in or out Ted Kaczynski, Jack Tarrance or most anyone else, depending on what you are looking for. The questions should be who is the examiner? How long have they been an examiner? Are they a court certified expert? What is their training? What significant cases have they done and been proven right? Or wrong? What materials did they have access to to make the comparison? Do they have a bias for or against a suspect?

In 1996 an SFPD handwriting person, whose credentials and training I do not know, took a very brief look at Zodiac and Kaczynski, but not having all of the Kaczynski writing that we have today.

The handwriting "expert" did not have much of Ted’s writing, but even so, while he could not declare a match he said Ted Kaczynski could NOT be ruled out as the author of the Zodiac letters. Allen and all other suspects were ruled out. And so called "experts" aside, anyone can see that there are incredible similarities between the handwriting of Zodiac and that of Ted Kaczynski.

Every so often someone brings up the fact that they have heard that Kaczynski has been "cleared" of the Zodiac crimes. Nobody can produce a quote from the SFPD or FBI officially "clearing" him. But people often refer to this entry on the Tom Voigt website:

The convicted "Unabomber", Kaczynski shares certain characteristics with the Zodiac killer:

1) Kaczynski lived in the San Francisco Bay Area in the late 1960s.
2) Kaczynski exhibited the ability to construct bombs.
3) Kaczynski communicated with the news media after committing murderous acts.

While compelling, I believe these similarities are simply the result of an imitative Kaczynski being heavily influenced by Zodiac. Additionally, Kaczynski was cleared of any involvement in the Zodiac crimes by both the FBI and the San Francisco Police Department. (Criteria used to eliminate Kaczynski as a Zodiac suspect were fingerprint comparison, handwriting comparison and the placement of Kaczynski away from California on five Zodiac dates of activity.)

AK – What is the truth?

First of all, we should remember that Gary Ridgway was officially cleared of being the Green River Killer…years before DNA proved he WAS the Green River Killer!

Police and the FBI are not infalliable.

Secondly, you can find all kind of things on the internet – doesn’t mean they are true.

That site is run by Voigt, and while he has made significant contributions to the case in the past, he now IMO tends to promotes his POI Gaikowski and distort information about other suspects.

Ted’s fingerprints were only compared to those found in the cab, which many doubt Zodiac left his prints in. Allen’s prints didn’t match the cab prints either, yet police still got three search warrants for him.

The handwriting issue is dealt with above.

The dates away nonsense comes from Ted’s brother David.

Ted Kaczynski has a new published book out called "Road to Revolution" aka "Technological Slavery". It has many Ted essays on technology and some interviews. As you know, Dave Kaczynski has stated his memory that Ted left California after quitting Berkeley and starting in the fall and/or winter of 1969, primarily stayed on and off with his parents in Illinois for two years, with some trips out west to look for land.

If true, this would present, not insurmountable, but very serious issues for Ted being Z. It would create the same problem you have with Gaikowski being in Albany NY at the time of the Bates murder and letters – the suspect would have to be repeatedly traveling across country to do it.

The possibilities:

1. Dave is right and Ted is not Z

2. Dave is right and Ted was Z, and did travel long distances across the country, as he did when he was the Unabomber.

3. Dave is intentionally covering up for Ted being Z.

4.(Most likely) In trying to remember events of 25 years ago, when Dave was in fact a student at Columbia in New York, and for which Dave himself often says his memory is "hazy", "vague", "dream like", "not sure", etc., he simple got it wrong, and in fact other than a brief holiday visit or two, Ted did NOT spend any significant length of time in Illinois during the key 1969 to 1971 time period when there was a lot of Z activity.

Now I found (and others might have found it before me I don’t know) a reference in Ted’s psych report where the shrink, reporting what Ted is telling her, says that after leaving Berkeley in June 1969 Ted "spent approximately two years trying to locate wilderness land out west."

So if that apparent statement from Ted (through the shrink) is correct, than Dave is wrong, and there is not a major timeline conflict for 69 to 71. It doesn’t PROVE that Ted was in California, but as we know he was looking for land in the Montana area, and according to Dave, Canada and northern California, it certainly puts him within a one day driving distance of California if not always in California itself for the Zodiac murders and mailings from Fall 69 through Fall 70.

And a while back Doug Oswell found this significant bit of information: In the interview in the new book "Road to Revolution", Ted in fact directly says that he didn’t go back to Illinois after leaving Berkeley until the winter of 70-71, and he just spent the winter of 1970-1971 in Illinois. This actually matches a lull period in Z activity. So to me this is a significant find, confirmation of the psych report, and effectively refutes the second hand knowledge "vague, dream like" memory of Dave.

Meaning there is no evidence Kaczynski was "away from California" on 5 key dates of Zodiac activity.

I personally find that TK is an interesting Zodiac suspect, partly due to the fact he was a known killer and because his handwriting is pretty
close to the Zodiac’s. But unless you can prove he was physically in the Bay Area on the dates of the Zodiac murders, we cannot prove he committed these
crimes. Also, the intimacy of the Zodiac crimes seems to be unlike TK to me.

I personally find that TK is an interesting Zodiac suspect, partly due to the fact he was a known killer and because his handwriting is pretty
close to the Zodiac’s. But unless you can prove he was physically in the Bay Area on the dates of the Zodiac murders, we cannot prove he committed these
crimes. Also, the intimacy of the Zodiac crimes seems to be unlike TK to me.

Read from the first thread in this topic onwards. Ted was a prof at U Cal Berkeley for most of the Zodiac events and has no alibi for anyone of them.

Bumping for ophion.

I like some aspects about TK being Z except in a couple of troubling areas;

– As mentioned elsewhere, up close and personal doesn’t seem the style of a long distance operator.
Whilst this is not a dealbreaker for me, it does not quite fit, to my reckoning.
He could’ve undergone an evolution, started up close & personal, then felt the heat was getting turned up too much, and to put more distance between him and
his victims, changed his persona and style. He was considering a sex change at one point (in ’66 I think) so other game-changing shifts could’ve occurred also. Like the MK-ULTRA tests.
Indeed, photos of him around the Z era depict a fairly well groomed individual. Pics as the hermit Unabomber suggest a loss of pride in personal appearance. Albeit a few years between the two times.
Artists impressions of witnesses recollections and decriptions of Z’s accoutrements come across as relatively clean/minimalist and meticulous from my
perception but maybe not clean enough even.

– Secondly, for the LHR/BRS/LB murders you really need a car. But not just a car, a ‘killing machine’ as Z calls it.
A phrase that to me, indicates a passion and affinity for motor vehicles. Not a Ted type of thing.
Now we know Ted hates technology and that has to inlcude the car, but when did his dislike of them become so intense he wouldn’t drive one?
The oil crisis of the 70’s would’ve potentially fueled his fire at least.
It’s been said that he borrowed his brother’s and parents cars before, but I wonder when that stopped and how long each time.
Although, in a possibly ‘clewish’ type way, a Z letter did taunt something like ‘I don’t look like my normal self when I’m doing my thing’.
Essentially, all bets are off. So a car not fitting TK’s anti-technology thing may not have mattered.
He took buses a lot more later. Unless his mechanical hatred hadn’t developed to that extent back then, how’d he justify to himself using a car?
Or using the technologically developed bomb parts, for that matter.

Not to mention, an implied crux of this thread, that we have to find that he was actually in California on the dates in question and at or near these murder scenes.

I do find it interesting that if you look at his life in the late 60’s, you’ve got an incredibly gifted young man, IQ in a rare stratosphere, skips grades, early college entry, university professor in young 20’s, career ahead of him, could’ve been up there with Einstein or Hawking from some things you read, then in some time of ’69 is out of a job and starts drifting. Did something happen or he get seen? Or was society just becoming too ugly for him to integrate into? And who knows what the MK-ULTRA tests may have done to his mind. Even if not to become the Zodiac then certainly as the Unabomber.

Remember Ted used a typewriter and built bombs. His sense of anti-technology was mainly against computers and genetic engineering and the modern industrial system.

Ted owned and used cars. He owned a 1950’s American pick up truck. He also owned a white 1970’s Pontiac LeMans. He also borrowed cars from his brother.

Your questions about his being in CA during the Z crimes are answered in the first page of this thread. Basically he was a prof at U Cal Berkeley during the key period and no evidence places him outside CA during confirmed Z crimes or mailings.