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Kaczynski and Zodiac – Shared Words, Phrases and Handwriting

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AK Wilks
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All material, writing, research and graphics herein are copyright by AK Wilks. Copyright 2010, 2013, 2017, 2018 by AK Wilks.

A COMPARISON OF SHARED WORD USAGE, PHRASES AND STYLES BY THE ZODIAC AND KACZYNSKI ( by AK Wilks and Doug Oswell).

Z = Zodiac K = Kaczynski/Unabomber

Z = I hope you enjoy your selves when I have my Blast. Jolly Roger Card.

K = For these reasons, I want to get my revenge in one big blast. GX18-2003F, p. 11.

Z = At the moment the children are safe from the bomb because it is so massive to dig in & the triger mech requires much work to get it adjusted just right. Belli Letter, 1969.

K = Its no fun having to spend all your evenings and weekends preparing dangerous mixtures, filing trigger mechanisms out of scraps of metal …. New York Times Letter, 1995.

Z = I gave the cops som bussy work to do to keep them happy. Seven-Page Letter, 1969.

K = This seems to us a thoroughly contemptible way for the human race to end up, and we doubt that many people would find fulfilling lives in such pointless busy-work. Unabomber Manifesto, 1995.

Z = This is the murderer of the 2 teenagers last Christmass at Lake Herman & the girl on the 4th of July near the golf course in Vallejo. To prove I killed them I shall state some facts which only I & the police know. Three-Part Cipher, 1969.

K = To prove that we are the ones who planted the bomb at U. Of Cal. last May we will mention a few details that could be known only to us and the FBI who investigated the incident. S.F. Examiner Letter, 1985.

Z = The police shall never catch me, because I have been too clever for them. Seven-Page letter, 1969.

K = And it doesn’t appear that the FBI is going to catch us any time soon. New York Times letter, 1995.

Z = 2 cops pulled a goof. Seven-Page letter, 1969.

K = The FBI is a joke. New York Times letter, 1995.

Z = As of yet I have left no fingerprints behind me contrary to what the police say. Seven-Page Letter, 1969.

K = Contrary to what the FBI has suggested, our bombing at the California Forestry Association was in no way inspired by the Oklahoma City bombing. New York Times Letter, 1995.

Z = This is the murderer of the 2 teenagers last Christmass … July 31, 1969 Letter (Chronicle).
This is the Zodiac speaking. Numerous correspondences, 1969 through 1971.

K = This is a message from the terrorist group FC. New York Times Letter, April 24, 1995.
This is a message from FC. Tom Tyler Letter, June 30, 1995.

Z = I promised to punish them if they did not comply, by anilating a full School Buss. But now school is out for the summer, so I punished them in another way. Mt. Diablo Letter, 1970.

K = The people who are pushing all this growth and progress garbage deserve to be severely punished. New York Times Letter, 1995.

Z = By the way it could be rather messy if you try to bluff me. Seven-Page Letter, Nov. 1969.

K = A special case of Theorem (b) was proved (in effect) in [6, proof of Theorem 6] by means of a rather messy lemma. T.J. Kaczynski. Boundary Functions and Sets of Curvilinear Convergence for Continuous Functions. Transactions of the American Mathematical Society, Vol. 141 (Jul., 1969), 107-125, p. 124.

Z = [Called a violent movie] "deplorable".

K = [Called OKC bombing] "deplorable".

The ones above are some that I considered most compelling and a few of my own. The entire list and analysis by Doug Oswell is excellent and can be seen here:

http://www.unazod.com/style.html

I do think the shared word usage of Kaczynski and Zodiac is remarkable, and unlike what we see in any other Z suspect.

LINDA: In addition to yours above, some others that I find quite compelling from Doug’s list are:

1. Both use the word "So" to begin several of their thoughts.
2. Both use the phrase "By the Way" to begin several of their thoughts.
3. Use of "is is" in sentences.
4. Both use the words "To prove" at the beginning of sentences followed by information
they felt provided proof of authenticity
5. Both draw a full line across the page to separate thoughts.

Interestingly, it was his writings that lead to the downfall and capture of the Unabomber. His cleverness of hiding his true identity and remaining obscure for 18 years began to unravel once his demand for publication of his Manifesto was agreed upon by authorities. Once published in the papers, his brother recognized what he thought could be his brother’s thoughts and certain phrases and finally, through legal counsel, notified authorities that he felt there was a great possibility that his brother was, in fact, the elusive Unabomber. Since TK was a prolific writer, authorities were provided with numerous known samples of his writings (letters, documents, papers, etc.). Comparisons were made of known Unabomber writings with known Kaczynski writings in a manner similar to the one Doug has presented on his site when comparing the Zodiac and TK.

AK WILKS: This presumably fake letter from skyjacker DB Cooper points the FBI in the direction of left wing revolutionaries, a favorite target of Ted Kaczynski. I have presented evidence that Ted may have written letters in the Judi Bari bombing case which pointed the FBI and the left wing environmentalists towards looking at right wing Christian extremists as being behind the bombing.

Hmm could Ted Kaczynski have faked a "DB Cooper" letter? Both "DB Cooper", Zodiac and Ted Kaczynski have a similar blocky style.



Z – misspells words, probably intentionally in most cases. Examples of last consonant in word changed to a vowel in the Z408.
TK – encodes "yesterday" as YESTERDAE.

JEM you ROCK!

Zodiac 408 Code: DANGEROUE
Unabomber Code: YESTERDAE

Both Zodiac and Kaczynski have a code in which in order to increase difficulty of solution they change the last consonant in a word to the vowel "E".

DANIEL GILLOTTI: I don’t have anything to add to this at this time. I wanted to say nice job…. this is very good work here. Jem, Linda, AK…awesome… :D

Daniel…

Thanks Dan and Cimm! And thanks to Jem and Linda!

Picking up on a discussion started by WRENCH at zkf, it was noted that the lines in the bus bomb diagram are LONG – SHORT – LONG, and that this is Morse Code for the letter "K".

Hmm, any Zodiac suspect last name start with the letter "K"? :roll:

Look at a Ted Kaczynski bomb design and a Zodiac bomb design.

Also, look at the part of the bus bomb diagram where it says "BUS GOES BANG."

Compare to Ted Kaczynski saying "RIFLE GOES BANG."

Identical construction…saying an object "goes bang."

And remember both Kaczynski and Zodiac used many of the same odd words and phrases, like "AROUND IN THE SNOW".

—————————————-

WHEN NON-VIOLENCE IS SUICIDE

By Ted Kaczynski

It’s the autumn of 2025 AD. The technoindustrial system fell apart a year ago, but you and your friends are doing alright. Your garden has flourished this past summer and in your cabin you have a good supply of dried vegetables, dried beans and other foodstuffs to get you through the coming winter. Just now you’re harvesting your potatoes. With your spades, you and your friends uproot one potato after another and pick the plump tubers out of the soil.

Suddenly the friend at your elbow nudges you and you look up. Uh-oh. A gang of mean-looking men is coming up your trail. They have guns. They look like trouble, but you stand firm. The leader of the gang walks up to you and says,

"Nice looking potatoes you got there."

"Yeah," you reply. "They’re nice-looking potatoes."

"We’re going to take them" says the gang leader.

"The hell you are!" you answer. "We spent a long summer of hard work growing those potatoes…"

The gang leader points his rifle at your face and says, "—— you, punk." To his men he adds, "Dick, Ziggy, check the cabin and see what kind of food they got. We might just move in and spend the winter here. Mick, grab that bitch over there before she gets away. She got a nice ass. We’ll all screw her tonight."

You get angry and start shouting, "You bastard! You can’t…"

The RIFLE GOES BANG. You’re dead.

———————-

In the Bates confession letter, it says "This letter should be published for all to read it. It just might save that girl in the alley. BUT THAT WILL BE UP TO YOU. IT WILL BE ON YOUR CONSCIENCE, NOT MINE".

In the Kaczynski Utah letter it says "When I contact my new friend summer of 1988 and he tells me you have kept your nose clean you will have nothing to fear. IN OTHER WORDS, YOUR FATE IS IN YOUR OWN HANDS."

In both letters, the criminal puts the responsibility to the reader "That will be up to you" and "Your fate is in your own hands". The criminal tells the reader what to do "publish this letter" and "keep your nose clean". If they don’t the threat is there for more murders, but it is up to the reader.

Very unusual, very specific and very similar.

We all know that Ted Kaczynski eluded capture as the Unabomber for 18 years, and that the FBI had a 25,000 name suspect list that did not include his name. But Ted Kaczynski’s downfall, what led to his capture, was that he used certain very specific and odd words and phrases that virtually no one else used. David Kaczynski recognized these words and phrases used by the Unabomber as ones that his brother Ted had used. This included the phrase "cool headed logician." It also included Ted’s unique phrasing of the old cliche "You can’t have your cake and eat it too" as "You can’t eat your cake and have it too."

Similarly, when we look at the words and phrases of the Zodiac, many very specific and unusual, we see that Ted Kaczynski often used these exact same odd words and phrases. This first example was discussed first by Doug Oswell, Linda and Kite, but I don’t think it has been examined in depth.

Six months after the abduction and presumed murder of Nevada resident Donna Lass, the Zodiac sent in a card thought to hint at her murder. The card included the very odd phrase "AROUND IN THE SNOW". The card seems to imply that the dead body of Donna Lass can be found AROUND IN THE SNOW.

The phrase is odd. Normally we might expect to hear that a body is "IN THE SNOW", or "ON THE SNOW", or "OUT IN THE SNOW".

Thus the term "AROUND IN THE SNOW" is very unusual. [Patinky and others have said this term is used in Kentucky].

In his new book Technological Slavery, on page 400, Ted Kaczynski discusses hunting rabbits and states that after shooting a rabbit it can be found bouncing "AROUND IN THE SNOW."

Both the Zodiac and Ted Kaczynski use the odd term "AROUND IN THE SNOW" to refer to where a body may be found.

There are many, many other examples.

Zodiac: Police should have "sat there quietly waiting for me to come out of cover." Zodiac Stine Letter, October 13, 1969, to SF Chronicle.

Kaczynski: "I went down there and watched, from cover, a guy with a bulldozer…". Unabomber: The Secret Life of Ted Kaczynski, by Chris Waits and Dave Shors, p. 278.

Analysis: Both Zodiac and Kaczynski descibe hiding from and watching enemies behind forestry as from "cover", a military term.

Zodiac: "was a negro about 40 -45 rather shabbly dressed." Zodiac Letter of August 4, 1969, to SF Examiner.

Kaczynski: "their homes looked shabby". Technological Slavery, p. 397.

Zodiac: BE SURE TO PRINT the part I marked out on page 3 or I shall do my thing.

Kaczynski: BE SURE TO tell us where and how our material will be published and how long it will take to appear in PRINT once we have sent in the manuscript.

Z = 2 cops pulled a goof. Seven-Page letter, 1969.

K = The FBI is a joke. New York Times letter, 1995.

Z = As of yet I have left no fingerprints behind me contrary to what the police say. Seven-Page Letter, 1969.

K = Contrary to what the FBI has suggested, our bombing at the California Forestry Association was in no way inspired by the Oklahoma City bombing. New York Times Letter, 1995.

Z = By the way it could be rather messy if you try to bluff me. Seven-Page Letter, 1969.

K = A special case of Theorem (b) was proved (in effect) in [6, proof of Theorem 6] by means of a rather messy lemma. T.J. Kaczynski. Boundary Functions and Sets of Curvilinear Convergence for Continuous Functions. Transactions of the American Mathematical Society, Vol. 141 (Jul., 1969), 107-125, p. 124.

Z = [Called a violent movie] "deplorable".

K = [Called OKC bombing] "deplorable".

Both commented on their bounties.

Zodiac: ‘I am mildly cerous as to how much money you have on my head now?’ and ‘What is the price tag now?’.

Kaczynski: ‘25,000 dollar reward offered. Rather flattering.’

People will tell me sometimes "Oh here is a person who said "rather messy", and sometimes I say "no longer", and someone else said "around in the snow". What is interesting is that both Zodiac and Ted Kaczynski used dozens and dozens of the same words and phrases, and some are not very common, like "rather messy", "around in the snow", "contrary to what police say", "evidence only I and police know", etc. Look at the posts on page one of this thread after you read this post.

Some new finds by KITE:

I don’t know if this has been brought up before or not but Kaczynski wrote, concerning the price of a Christmas card:

(I bet it doesn’t cost them a nickel to print the damn thing.)

Zodiac wrote:
(When I hung the phone up the dam thing began to ring and that drew his attention to me and my car.)

Here’s an interesting comparison between a Unabomber letter(4/24/95) and a Zodiac letter(11/9/69, 7 pages).
Zodiac: (I shall NO LONGER ANNOUNCE to anyone when I comitt my murders)
FC: Why do we ANNOUNCE our goals only now…
FC: Since we NO LONGER have to confine the explosive…

Zodiac: the system checks out from one end to the other in my TESTS.
Zodiac:I think you do not have the man power to stop this one by continually SEARCHING THE road sides looking FOR this thing.
Zodiac: Have FUN!! By the way, it could be rather messy if you try to bluff me.

FC: It’s no FUN having to spend all your evenings and weekends preparing dangerous mixtures, filing trigger mechanisms out of scraps of metal or SEARCHING THE Sierras FOR a place isolated enough to TEST a bomb. So we offer a bargain.

Zodiac: BE SURE TO PRINT the part I marked out on page 3 or I shall do my thing.
FC: BE SURE TO tell us where and how our material will be published and how long it will take to appear in PRINT once we have sent in the manuscript.

I am curious to know if there is any possibility that TK was actually influenced by Zodiac, or if there is good evidence to show that his use of similar words and phrases predates the Zodiac case.

That is an excellent question. I will give more info later this weekend, here are my first thoughts:

1. Was TK the Zodiac, or was he influenced by the Zodiac? In the thousands of pages of Ted’s notes and journals that we have seen, he never mentions the Zodiac. He does mention Charles Whitman, and the OKC bomber, but not Zodiac. Despite the fact that Ted lived in the SF Bay area when Z was active, and despite Ted and Z having a shared interest in bombs, codes and killing people. The FBI will not release Ted’s journals for the most active Zodiac years of of 1968 and 1969. But from what we know, Ted was not influenced by the Zodiac, he never acknowledges being influenced by the Zodiac. Just like the diary of Bruce Wayne would not mention Batman…

2. In some cases, the words of Z predate the words of Ted. Like the use of "contrary to what police say..". But in most of these instances, the words by Zodiac would not be the type that someone like Ted or anyone would copy. It just seems like Ted uses the same words or identical or near identical phrases like "contrary to what police say", "known only by police/FBI and I/us", "trigger mech", etc. I do not see any other suspect having used these words and phrases. To patinky/stitch’s point, while someone else may use "around in the snow" or other words, I have not found an individual other than Ted who uses 30 or more words and phrases that Zodiac used.

3. In many cases, Ted used the words, phrases or images FIRST, before Zodiac did. This is the case with "rather messy" and many others. And Ted used crossed lines in a circle as a signature BEFORE Zodiac did.

KACZYNSKI INTEREST IN CROSSED LINES INSIDE CIRCLES

Just like the zodiac, Kaczynski used crossed lines inside circles as a signature and drew crossed lines inside a circle at a crime scene.

Kaczynski had a life long interest in, almost obsession with, crossed lines inside circles.

1. He signed a yearbook with his "mark" – crossed lines inside a circle.

2. He spent several years of graduate study and his PHD dissertation on the boundary functions of circles, in particular dealing with the unit circle, which looks like the Zodiac symbol.

3. At the campus of a Unabomber target, he spraypainted the Yggdrasil symbol, also known as the Algiz Rune, along with the letters "FC" and "Anarchy". The Anglo-Saxon translation of the Algiz Rune is "Z"! It consists of, once again, crossed lines inside a circle. The Yggdrasil is the World Tree, but it also stands for "tree of terror; gallows", and the Algiz Rune also means to "wound severely; to mark with blood."

And a close up on his signature with the crossed lines inside a circle.

Close up on Unit Circle, Zodiac Symbol and Unabomber Symbols

DORANCHAK: Perhaps authorship can be determined using stylometry:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stylometry

More info:

http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2 … peo_3.html

JStylo is a free tool for extracting "authorship features" from text:

https://psal.cs.drexel.edu/index.php/JStylo-Anonymouth

I thought it’d be interesting to experiment with that.

AK WILKS:

The thing about the ‘Kaczynski as Zodiac’ theory is that it postulates Kacyznski would rather his time as Zodiac remain dead and buried, for admitting he was Zodiac would shatter the image of him as a controlled, clinical, highly intelligent anti-technology crusader, instead making the public remember him as the sexually frustrated lunatic who went around cowardly killing helpless young people.

Right. Ted decided he would rather face the death penalty than have his lawyers say he was insane. As the letter writer said "I am not sick", Ted said "I am not a sickie. They were going to portray me as a sickie."

Ted is a hero to some people in the anarchist primitivist movement and the radical environmental groups. He is interviewed by college professors and cited in journals. They view him as a political terrorist, a leader in a cause, someone who fought against big corporations and technology.

The Zodiac is a serial killer, viewed in the category of Jack the Ripper and Ted Bundy, a sick psychopath who shot teenagers in the back, a lovers lane stalker who took out his sexual frustrations on innocent men and women. Zodiac does get some "praise" for being a genius, going uncaught and making unsolvable codes. Yet these are overshadowed by killing teens and the label as a psycho.

I think Ted is happy with how he is viewed now. Other than teasing references, like signing his name with a huge Z, he will not admit to being Zodiac.

Gary Greenberg noted that Ted Kaczynski would often sign his letters with a large "Z" underneath the signature. He wondered if this was like a "Mark of Zorro". I have never seen anything to indicate Kaczynski would have been a fan of those old adventure films. Ted also told a psychiatrist he had an "obssession" with a "Ms. Z" during his gradute school years, though no evidence suggests he had a relationship with any woman, let alone one woth a last name starting with a "Z". Was "Ms. Z" his codeword for Zodiac? Ted also spraypainted a Yggdrasil symbol, also known as the Algiz Rune, at the campus of a target. The Algiz Rune translates to English as the letter "Z". In a yearbook Ted indicated his "mark" was two crossed lines inside a circle, suggesting a rough early prototype of the Zodiac symbol. Is the large "Z" under his name meant to conjure up Zodiac?

Zodiac often but not always did a 3 stroke "k", Kaczynski often but not always did a 3 stroke "k". Zodiac often did a 5 stroke "m", same as Ted. Other matches include the checkmark "r", short caps and bottom on the capital "I" and frequent cursive looped back on the "d". Look at Ted’s "k" in "Park" – a clear 3 stroke. Morrill said few people in the general population do 3 stroke "k" or 5 stroke "m" so those would be things he would look for. I also blew up the Ted letter to the boy.

GRAPHICS AND RESEARCH BY AK WILKS AND AWESHUCKS – A HANDWRITING COMPARISON – ZODIAC AND KACZYNSKI



From Doug Oswell, the Application Bio by Kaczynski to the U Cal Berkeley, December 1966.

The writing looks particularly Zodiac like to me, compare it to the Belli letter.


TAHOE 27: You have always provided nice comparisons AK!

Ted’s writing has always been closest to Zodiac’s than most others, imo.

Since I don’t believe Zodiac responsible for all the crimes or letters, many of these guys still remain intriguing. If Zodiac wasn’t responsible for some, who were the ones who were?

MODERATOR

 
Posted : April 7, 2013 9:06 am
AK Wilks
(@ak-wilks)
Posts: 1407
Noble Member
Topic starter
 

Thanks to GLURK who made an effort at transcription that seems very good! Broken into paragraphs by me for clarity, emphasis on "mildly attractive" added by me and any help on the few unknown words is appreciated.

Ted Kaczynski Journal:

"proved that my ego was serving a (unknown) over sex,
But this was a bitter and painful pride, because I wanted very
badly to have a girlfriend. Thus, I regretted afterward having been
cowed by a pretty girl.

The very strength of my desire for girls
made it much harder for me; I didn’t find it hard to be friendly
with a girl whom I found only mildly attractive. But in any case, I
didn’t understand when or how to * ask for a date. In high
school. my personal situation was such that I learned
nothing
about dating conventions, and, being Largeley isolated socially at Harvard,
I never understood any such information there, either.

Also, the fact that I had no interest in most of the common **
entertainments meant that it was hard for me to think of any
place where I could ask a girl to go with me. Dancing
and (unknown) with
utmost contempt.# Movies bored me.

I might add that, while some men seem proud of their sexual activities
with women and regard it as proof of their virility, I have
never looked upon sex ******* or the "conquest" of women
as something to be proud of. To me it is nothing to take pride
in any more than eating
candy, watching television, or
any other soft pleasure.

On the contrary, I’ve always considered
sex a weakness. Thus, while pride and ego helped me to steel
my will to overcome, say, a mathematical problem, pride and ego
did not steel my will to overcome my shyness with girls.
Let me illustrate all this with a few examples. When
I first got to Harvard, there was a good-looking Miss Beer who used to"

———————————
IMO the thinly disguised envy of the sexually active and the expressed dislike of sexual activity, of men who brag about their conquests and virility, fits PERFECTLY with the MO of the Zodiac killing young couples in spots known for making out or sex.

KITE noted some word and phrase matches to Zodiac.

Kaczynski using "MILDLY attractive", in my opinion, is a good stylistic comparison to Zodiac using "MILDLY cerous" [Zodiac My Name Is Letter/Code 1970].

Kaczynski, second page of FC (Ted Kaczynski) to Earth First letter: …and COUPLED WITH THIS the trait of hypersensitivity….
Zodiac, Map Bomb Letter 1970: The Map COUPLED WITH THIS code will tell you where the bomb is set.

I noted that on the journal page discussing Harvard Ted uses the term "busy work" which was also used by Zodiac as giving the police some "busy work [Zodiac Stine Letter, 1969].

And I noted the following from the Ellen poems and letter. Ted makes reference to "fat ass", a term he also used in a letter to a former employer, while Zodiac said the police better get off their "fat asses" if they want to catch him [Zodiac, LA Times letter, 1971].

Ted also uses the word "nasty", which Zodiac used in saying he would do something "nasty" [Zodiac Exorcist Letter 1974].

Second page of Earth First letter (Appendix). Uses Zodiac term "coupled with this" start of third paragraph:

Ellen poems and letter. Uses Zodiac terms "fat ass" and "nasty":

Journal page on Harvard. Uses Zodiac term "busy work" end of fourth paragraph.

MODERATOR

 
Posted : April 12, 2013 7:56 pm
AK Wilks
(@ak-wilks)
Posts: 1407
Noble Member
Topic starter
 

I have not been posting here much lately. Zam and a few others have asked if I was ok. I am. Sorry for those of you who missed me. For the rest, hope you enjoyed my absence!

Been busy with other things, enjoying life. :)

Also, I still strongly believe the evidence points to TK as very likely being Zodiac, in particular the items discussed above. There have not been many questions, criticisms or debate on these items. I welcome such questions and criticisms. But I don’t have much new to add right now. I can only present the oppurtunity to people to look at the above evidence, and see how no other suspect, no other human being, used as many of the same words, phrases, styles and handwriting as Zodiac as Ted did.

I think there is a very strong case for TK as Z, but it is the authorities who can prove or disprove it, with DNA. I have given them all my work, now it is up to them to do something, or do nothing. I have mostly given up trying to influence them.

MODERATOR

 
Posted : June 14, 2013 11:21 pm
Victor
(@victor)
Posts: 217
Estimable Member
 

I do not believe Unabomber was The Zodiac because U. was a lone operator, had a semi-random method of selecting his victims, and struck from a distance.
The only thing they really had(have) in common was their vernacular. And if U., who is behind bars for good, were really Z., why not formally close that case, as well?

"Jerry, just remember, it’s not a lie if you believe it." George Costanza from Seinfeld

 
Posted : June 25, 2013 10:39 am
Patinky
(@patinky)
Posts: 196
Estimable Member
 

I do not believe Unabomber was The Zodiac because U. was a lone operator, had a semi-random method of selecting his victims, and struck from a distance.
The only thing they really had(have) in common was their vernacular. And if U., who is behind bars for good, were really Z., why not formally close that case, as well?

AK may differ with my opinion but if Ted is Zodiac he might not own up to being Zodiac because he likely would face the death penalty if tried and found guilty. Ted was immune to the death penalty for the Unabomber cases because of an agreement between officials and Ted’s brother, who gave up enough evidence to convict Ted.

When in doubt, don’t.

 
Posted : June 26, 2013 2:37 am
Victor
(@victor)
Posts: 217
Estimable Member
 

I do not believe Unabomber was The Zodiac because U. was a lone operator, had a semi-random method of selecting his victims, and struck from a distance.
The only thing they really had(have) in common was their vernacular. And if U., who is behind bars for good, were really Z., why not formally close that case, as well?

AK may differ with my opinion but if Ted is Zodiac he might not own up to being Zodiac because he likely would face the death penalty if tried and found guilty. Ted was immune to the death penalty for the Unabomber cases because of an agreement between officials and Ted’s brother, who gave up enough evidence to convict Ted.

________________________________________

Sorry, I mean LE has no reason why they couldn’t investigate and prosecute T.K. for being Z. if they are(were) one and the same to finally close the Z. case. Furthermore, (from wikipedia): "Kaczynski was able to avoid the death penalty by pleading guilty to all the government’s charges, on January 22, 1998. Later, Kaczynski attempted to withdraw his guilty plea, arguing it was involuntary. Judge Garland Ellis Burrell Jr. denied his request." So if T.K., at 71 y.o., was sentenced to death, which he may not mind evidently, he would die of natural causes before he were executed.

ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Kaczynski

"Jerry, just remember, it’s not a lie if you believe it." George Costanza from Seinfeld

 
Posted : June 26, 2013 3:28 am
(@nachtsider)
Posts: 367
Reputable Member
 

AK may differ with my opinion but if Ted is Zodiac he might not own up to being Zodiac because he likely would face the death penalty if tried and found guilty.

I don’t think that’s the reason why Ted, if Zodiac, might refuse to cop to the Zodiac crimes. I think it’s more of Ted not wanting to be remembered as a ‘sexually frustrated creep’.

 
Posted : June 27, 2013 12:55 pm
Victor
(@victor)
Posts: 217
Estimable Member
 

AK may differ with my opinion but if Ted is Zodiac he might not own up to being Zodiac because he likely would face the death penalty if tried and found guilty.

I don’t think that’s the reason why Ted, if Zodiac, might refuse to cop to the Zodiac crimes. I think it’s more of Ted not wanting to be remembered as a ‘sexually frustrated creep’.

________________________________________________

Considering T.K. was, from what I understand, extremely unsuccessful with women, had even considered a sex change operation for acceptance, lived alone in a cabin, and got his "bangs" via the bombs he mailed off, I think he knows he’s got no reason to be worried how he’s remembered.

"Jerry, just remember, it’s not a lie if you believe it." George Costanza from Seinfeld

 
Posted : June 27, 2013 1:07 pm
Victor
(@victor)
Posts: 217
Estimable Member
 

A COMPARISON OF SHARED WORD USAGE, PHRASES AND STYLES BY THE ZODIAC AND KACZYNSKI (MOSTLY BY DOUG OSWELL AND A FEW BY AK WILKS)

Z = This is the murderer of the 2 teenagers last Christmass at Lake Herman & the girl on the 4th of July near the golf course in Vallejo. To prove I killed them I shall state some facts which only I & the police know. Three-Part Cipher, 1969.

K = To prove that we are the ones who planted the bomb at U. Of Cal. last May we will mention a few details that could be known only to us and the FBI who investigated the incident. S.F. Examiner Letter, 1985.

Z = The police shall never catch me, because I have been too clever for them. Seven-Page letter, 1969.

K = And it doesn’t appear that the FBI is going to catch us any time soon. New York Times letter, 1995.

Z = As of yet I have left no fingerprints behind me contrary to what the police say. Seven-Page Letter, 1969.

K = Contrary to what the FBI has suggested, our bombing at the California Forestry Association was in no way inspired by the Oklahoma City bombing. New York Times Letter, 1995.

Z = This is the murderer of the 2 teenagers last Christmass … July 31, 1969 Letter (Chronicle).
This is the Zodiac speaking. Numerous correspondences, 1969 through 1971.

K = This is a message from the terrorist group FC. New York Times Letter, April 24, 1995.
This is a message from FC. Tom Tyler Letter, June 30, 1995.

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In hopes of furthering the argument that The Z. was most likely a group effort and that T.K. probably wasn’t The Z. (maybe a part of the Z. group), please notice how The U. (T.K.) gives the indication he is a group while The Z. does the exact opposite.

"Jerry, just remember, it’s not a lie if you believe it." George Costanza from Seinfeld

 
Posted : June 27, 2013 2:47 pm
Victor
(@victor)
Posts: 217
Estimable Member
 

Also the name The Zodiac is singular in appearance but refers to a collective of star signs.

"Jerry, just remember, it’s not a lie if you believe it." George Costanza from Seinfeld

 
Posted : June 27, 2013 2:51 pm
AK Wilks
(@ak-wilks)
Posts: 1407
Noble Member
Topic starter
 

AK may differ with my opinion but if Ted is Zodiac he might not own up to being Zodiac because he likely would face the death penalty if tried and found guilty.

I don’t think that’s the reason why Ted, if Zodiac, might refuse to cop to the Zodiac crimes. I think it’s more of Ted not wanting to be remembered as a ‘sexually frustrated creep’.

________________________________________________

Considering T.K. was, from what I understand, extremely unsuccessful with women, had even considered a sex change operation for acceptance, lived alone in a cabin, and got his "bangs" via the bombs he mailed off, I think he knows he’s got no reason to be worried how he’s remembered.

Believe it or not Ted as the Unabomber is a hero to many in the radical environmental movement and primitivist anarchist groups. He even has some followers in academia and the broader anti-technology groups. They see Ted as a political terrorist using bombs to fight the corporate technocrats. Ted loves this. Ted does not want to be seen as a sexually frustrated psychopathic serial killer who gunned down teenagers in lovers lanes.

MODERATOR

 
Posted : June 28, 2013 11:39 pm
Victor
(@victor)
Posts: 217
Estimable Member
 

Believe it or not Ted as the Unabomber is a hero to many in the radical environmental movement and primitivist anarchist groups. He even has some followers in academia and the broader anti-technology groups. They see Ted as a political terrorist using bombs to fight the corporate technocrats. Ted loves this. Ted does not want to be seen as a sexually frustrated psychopathic serial killer who gunned down teenagers in lovers lanes.

Sorry but I’m referring to LE. If there is sufficient evidence that T.K. is The Z., I don’t see why L.E. doesn’t proceed with closing this infamous cold case.
That doesn’t hinge on how T.K. wants to be remembered nor can you prosecute a dead man.
Kindly.

"Jerry, just remember, it’s not a lie if you believe it." George Costanza from Seinfeld

 
Posted : June 29, 2013 12:55 am
(@nachtsider)
Posts: 367
Reputable Member
 

The reason why LE doesn’t close the Zodiac case along with the Unabomber one? Rightfully or wrongfully, they don’t take the Unabomber-Zodiac theory seriously.

 
Posted : June 29, 2013 3:22 am
(@anonymous)
Posts: 1772
Noble Member
 

We all doubt the current DNA SFPD does or does not have from the Zodiac Letters, therefore there is nothing to compare Ted to.
Techniques have improved dramatically since the SFPD evidence was tested years ago.
All they need do now is swab with distilled water for touch DNA. I have no idea what will prompt SFPD to re open this case and spend some
money on DNA recovery. Perhaps there is evidence in private possession which we can get tested for DNA, such as the items Sandy Betts has.
We are all not going to live forever here. Based on the belief by experts that the same person who wrote the Zodiac letters wrote the Bates letters,
I am hoping we can track down the definitive DNA from Cheri Jo Bates Killer, the hair roots, the cigarette butt, the Timex watch, touch DNA from
something and load it into CODIS for a possible match. If we can get DNA from Cheri Jo, and there is mtDNA from her Killer recovered, then we may have
the Zodiac, and one thing leads to another. Now days DNA can tell you what the suspect looks like, including hair color and eye color, ethnic background.

 
Posted : June 29, 2013 5:00 am
AK Wilks
(@ak-wilks)
Posts: 1407
Noble Member
Topic starter
 

The reason why LE doesn’t close the Zodiac case along with the Unabomber one? Rightfully or wrongfully, they don’t take the Unabomber-Zodiac theory seriously.

Well…you may be right.

But there is no such thing as "LE". In my pursuit of this case and related cases I have been in contact with the FBI, SFPD, RPD, CALDOJ, OCDA, police in Illinois and Ohio, etc., etc.

RPD seems to have no interest in Zodiac, let alone TK as Zodiac. Some other departments on the Z case did not seem to have much interest in TK as Z.

But other departments and/or persons at departments did seem to have a serious interest, judging by their follow up, which included writing letters to federal prison to try to get Ted’s DNA, and doing other things which I doubt they would have done had they had no interest in the theory.

Some of these efforts are ongoing.

But the bottom line is the case remains unsolved, and I apparently was not able to get enough serious interest in TK as a suspect in enough departments to get all the things done that need to be done.

MODERATOR

 
Posted : September 10, 2013 10:19 pm
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