Tonight on KQED Channel 9, at 10:07 pm , a 1942 movie "The Secret Weapon", will be shown. This is a movie that I have posted about before. It is a Sherlock Holmes movie, staring Basil Rathbone. It has 3 cyphers that are broken, but the 4th one is a bit different, it was the the hardest to break! Very much like what we have with Zodiac’s codes.
I feel that Zodiac may have gotten his idea about cyphers from this movie. Please see for yourselves and check times for your area.
Hey Auth ,this is the code movie I spoke to you about.
Looks like an interesting movie. It’s also available on amazon.com for rental, so I’ll probably watch it this weekend.
There are interesting tidbits about the code. I saved it to my DVR a while back. Worth watching! Maybe it’s on youtube.
“…they may be dealing with one or more ersatz Zodiacs–other psychotics eager to get into the act, or perhaps even other murderers eager to lay their crimes at the real Zodiac’s doorstep.“ L.A. Times, 1969
SHERLOCK HOLMES AND THE SECRET WEAPON (1943) Full Movie
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Y7ayv8dlFk
"Jerry, just remember, it’s not a lie if you believe it." George Costanza from Seinfeld
SHERLOCK HOLMES AND THE SECRET WEAPON (1943) Full Movie
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Y7ayv8dlFk
Great Victor! Thanks.
If anyone wants to go straight to the code stuff…start at 41:00.
It discusses bomb sites and "4 parts" and that one part is useless without the other three. 
“…they may be dealing with one or more ersatz Zodiacs–other psychotics eager to get into the act, or perhaps even other murderers eager to lay their crimes at the real Zodiac’s doorstep.“ L.A. Times, 1969
Well…. maybe. My thruppence?
We’ve discussed the "Dancing Men" code stuff that’s in a (real!) Conan Doyle book – and that it uses the kind of supression technique which features in the 408. I think we concurred that there’s no evidence anywhere that it inspired the 408; the technique is a standard one.
The idea that the same technique is used as the basis of a cipher which is then combined with another technique (in this case a simple transposition) indeed may have been a source of "inspiration" to our guy – but again, combining more than one technique ain’t uncommon.
I’m delighted to have watched the clip. Fun stuff. I’m fond of dear old Basil.
Well…. maybe. My thruppence?
We’ve discussed the "Dancing Men" code stuff that’s in a (real!) Conan Doyle book – and that it uses the kind of supression technique which features in the 408. I think we concurred that there’s no evidence anywhere that it inspired the 408; the technique is a standard one.
The idea that the same technique is used as the basis of a cipher which is then combined with another technique (in this case a simple transposition) indeed may have been a source of "inspiration" to our guy – but again, combining more than one technique ain’t uncommon.I’m delighted to have watched the clip. Fun stuff. I’m fond of dear old Basil.
Do you know if there are any images of the original "Dancing Men" code stuff that’s in a (real!) Conan Doyle book ?
What I have been thinking is; could there be some connection between the "Dancing Men" code and the skeletons on the Zodiac Haloween card?
To me (and several other Zodiac researchers) it is pretty sure that Zodiac altered (with a cutter) the skeleton-limbs, at least on the skeletons inside the card. It seem to have been very important to him to get the legs and arms to be in a specific possition.
(I´m also 99.99% sure that the skeleton inside the card was made from at least two different skeletons due to that the proportions of the skeletons different parts does NOT fit each other, the skull is way to big for the rest of the skeleton)
SO…is it possible that Zodiac wanted the two, or one, of the skeltons to represent a letter, and that the "dancing men" code was the key?
Hi, english is not my first language so please bear with me 
Hi TF.
I hate to mention wiki… but I think this is a reasonable representation of the original material:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Advent … ancing_Men
As you can see, these little stick men have none of the sophistication of the Halloween card image, so…..
(You’re right I think, the skeleton was assembled with care and altered with a scalpel. By whom? I’m not sure, personally.)
If the halloween card skeleton did represent a letter from the dancing men code, it couldn’t be a "Z" (since there wasn’t a Z in the original code, as I recall).
Complicated idea!
Interesting thread. Zodiac being influenced by movies, etc, makes it seem possible he got ideas from movies.
There is more than one way to lose your life to a killer
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http://zodiackillersite.blogspot.com/
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Interesting thread. Zodiac being influenced by movies, etc, makes it seem possible he got ideas from movies.
I think he was influenced by TV and movies. Lets not forget though that Doyle was a strange character in his own right and believed in fairies.
As for TV show influence worth seeing Z related is a episode of Ironside. Episode 24 season one, Perfect Crime march 8 1968. I watched it on Hulu plus but maybe on regular Hulu or You Tube for free. I think it was a defiant influence on Z. Think it may have been mentioned on Z.com years back.
Well…. maybe. My thruppence?
We’ve discussed the "Dancing Men" code stuff that’s in a (real!) Conan Doyle book – and that it uses the kind of supression technique which features in the 408. I think we concurred that there’s no evidence anywhere that it inspired the 408; the technique is a standard one.
The idea that the same technique is used as the basis of a cipher which is then combined with another technique (in this case a simple transposition) indeed may have been a source of "inspiration" to our guy – but again, combining more than one technique ain’t uncommon.I’m delighted to have watched the clip. Fun stuff. I’m fond of dear old Basil.
Do you know if there are any images of the original "Dancing Men" code stuff that’s in a (real!) Conan Doyle book ?
What I have been thinking is; could there be some connection between the "Dancing Men" code and the skeletons on the Zodiac Haloween card?
To me (and several other Zodiac researchers) it is pretty sure that Zodiac altered (with a cutter) the skeleton-limbs, at least on the skeletons inside the card. It seem to have been very important to him to get the legs and arms to be in a specific possition.
(I´m also 99.99% sure that the skeleton inside the card was made from at least two different skeletons due to that the proportions of the skeletons different parts does NOT fit each other, the skull is way to big for the rest of the skeleton)SO…is it possible that Zodiac wanted the two, or one, of the skeltons to represent a letter, and that the "dancing men" code was the key?
Good thoughts TF ! I didn’t think about the dancing men, but about the idea of a "subtitution" code being sent to "3 people" like 3 newspapers. Making it easy enough for the Harden’s to solve. Then sending the 4th cypher the 340 which to this day has not been solved.
In this movie the 4th cypher was much harder to solve, reminded me of the harder 340. I do like your idea about the dancing men and the skeleton. I believe you are right,that skeleton was made to be a clue of some sort.
As for TV show influence worth seeing Z related is a episode of Ironside. Episode 24 season one, Perfect Crime march 8 1968. I watched it on Hulu plus but maybe on regular Hulu or You Tube for free. I think it was a defiant influence on Z. Think it may have been mentioned on Z.com years back.
Ironside (1967) Full Episode (Perfect Crime)
http://www.imdb.com/video/hulu/vi3287482393/
"Jerry, just remember, it’s not a lie if you believe it." George Costanza from Seinfeld
Thank you Victor for giving everyone a chance to see this movie. When I saw it in the early 90’s, I told everyone who would listen LOL. At last people are looking at it and wondering did Zodiac get his code idea from this movie ? I think Zodiac was not an inventive person but more of a copy cat, taking his ideas from books ,movies, perhaps newspapers . His codes are sub. codes like in the movie, he just didn’t use the dancing men he did his own alphabet.
Like TF said, he could have taken his idea of the skeleton from those dancing men.
Quote, StitchMallone wrote:As for TV show influence worth seeing Z related is a episode of Ironside. Episode 24 season one, Perfect Crime march 8 1968. I watched it on Hulu plus but maybe on regular Hulu or You Tube for free. I think it was a defiant influence on Z. Think it may have been mentioned on Z.com years back.
Thanks StitchM. I just watched it ,it wouldn’t surprise me if Zodiac did see this episode Perfect Crime. A 22 being used and Peggy with her dark hair reminded me of Betty Lou, 9 months later Both she a David were shot. The 3-8 date also caught my attention, like what I think was a clue in the cypher, instead of 3 Taurus signs.
Raymond Burr was very interested in the Zodiac, not sure who it was that told me , maybe someone else heard that ?
