I’ve just been thinking over the Pacific Heights incident and the events as they happened according to those responding and various others and my reason for thinking about this in particular is because I have been trying to work out recently why there are so many inconsistancies and discrepancies between the account of what happened that night and how it could be possible for certain things to have unfloded as they did when this fact over here says it should not be possible and then I realized how one thing removed from the official account of that night makes all the inconsistancies go away and it’s this…
There never was a radio call given by the dispatcher in which she said the suspect was Black. Why? Because if she had, then the events could not have unfolded that night the way that A Pelissetti & D Fouke have said they did, not possible. Why would they claim the dispatcher had aired ‘Black Male Suspect’? Because they had to have a reason for not arresting or at least taking the man’s ID and details!
If the description had been given as A BMA as they suggest, then it was not done by the reportee teenagers because in Pelissetti’s own words they were the ones who, as soon as A.P spoke to them said a white man had just gone down Cherry St after walking away from the cab. So A.P then states "I couldn’t get to the radio fast enough to let everybody else know". This happenes before Don Fouke drives up on a white male a few minutes later on Jackson so Don Fouke would have known by A.P’s radio update that the suspect was White a full few minutes before encountering Zodiac near Maple intersection. Don Fouke has never made a reference to A.P’s claim to either state he heard no such ammendment by Pellisetti. So, if the teens seem only too aware the suspect was white from the second A.P arrived on scene then we must assume that if a mistakewas made, it was made by the dispatcher herself. Well, considering that this so called blunder is given as the reason that Zodiac, a serial killer who’s appearing on America’s Most Wanted on day, the Chronicle Front page the next, was able to walk away into the night. So, obviously because the monumental blunder led to the Capture of Zodiac being missed, there would be a huge internal investigation, the dispatcher will be named instantly because it wouldn’t be good to have the patrol officers appear to be responsible, we would hear this dispatchers reasons for making such a consequential mistake? None of the above, not a flicker of interest shown in questioning the offending dispatcher. This idiotic dispatcher who hears white as Black was spared being repremanded on account of her not existing! So the teens knew full well the suspect was white, the dispatcher
See, I never could get my head around why it would be that Fouke would not come foreward regarding his encounter with the white male that night of Oct 11, and only did so 1 month later because Zodiac kinda forced his hand by telling the press he’d been there when Two cops pulled their goof. I kept asking myself "Why wouldn’t he report the encounter? It’s absolutely vital evidence he has and I reasoned it cannot be because he is trying to cover it up because he fears his superiors wroth because according to him, he was told the suspect was Black, so could essily explain why he failed to detain or take action against the white man. See, it makes sense now. Fouke tried to cover up the encounter because no such description of a Black Male had really ever been given. A months later when Zodiac decides to take it out of Fouke’s hands by telling te Chronicle Paper, Fouke is backed into a corner now and knows he has no choice so he comes up with something like "Well, yes it is true I did see A White male, but…. But….The dispatcher had given us the wrong info and gave it the suspect as Black, so thats why I didn’t stop or detain him". Thats the only thing he can say, otherwise he’d have to say "Yes Isaw a white Male, we knew the suspect was a White male, but we didn’t stop and ask him quetions."
And for the people who refuse my above claims, thats fine, but even if you believe that this mystery dispatcher did make this error is irellevant anyway because in Pellisetti’s own words, he gave the description out over his car radio, then walked down Cherry st, (He makes a point of telling the viewer he walked and did not run because he was following every techneque he knew not to get his head blown off), he then walks down Jackson all the way to the next intersection of Maple, looks left toward the wall entrance of the Presidio, nothing, looks right, sees a man with a dog (who again, nobody has seemed to interview even thought this is the exact spot where in minutes time, Fouke will claim his encounter with the white male took place), Pellisetti then walks back up Jackson, truns left onto Cherry and is almost back at the cab when Fouke pulls up, a good 5/6/7 minutes after Pallisetti claims he has given the update. (Again, how could Pellisetti walk down Jackson and back up and not encounter anyone, and Fouke, who’s two minutes behind him, runs right into Zodiac on the street where Armond has just been…. And where is that man with his dog now???
See there is a saying, ‘when you are telling the truth you don’t need a ggood memory because the turth will never change as it is a fact. When you are telling lies, you need to remember the lies and what you said, when you said it, all the little details because when you don’t, you story and verion of events quickly falls apart and makes no sense. Whichever way you approach it, Fouke knew the suspect was White. So that leaves one question that I really trying to avoid answering, "Why didn’t he act and draw his weapon or at the very least demand his ID?" Lets face it, the police are not in the habbit of allowing anyone to casually walk away from a muder 200 yeards away within minutes of the crime happening and it doesn;’t matter if your White, Black, or any other colour. There is only one answer as to why he’d allow anyone to walk away. And when you couple it with his initial unwillingness to come foreward in the first place and seemed to not want to even ackwnoledge any encounter at all, you have to wonder why he is so reluctant?
This may also explain this eight year old saying he recognized the man he saw and even gave a name. Where did this kid recognize this face from well enough to associate it with a name? And Bryan Hartnell said, when speaking of Zodiac’s voice "His (Z’s) voice…. I can remember….Almost like i’d heared it before. You know, there are some drawls that a lot of people have that are similar, and… almost as if i’d heard it before…. But couldn’t think where." Many people mistake Bryan there to be actually making a claim that Zodiac had a drawl, when he isn’t. He is clearly using the drawl as an example so that the detective can understand what he’s saying, kinda "Yeah I kinda recognised the voice but, cant remember from where. You know what I mean Officer, when you hear someone whi has a southern drawl its recognizable and stands out, well thats kind of what I mean about Zodiac’s voice". Bryan states clearly that zodiac spoke, quote ‘Slow and measured, had a precise cadence to his voice, not an accent". Did Bryans Brain recognize the voice from somewhere and know that he had heard it before, just not recall where?
Basic facts are, Whether you believe there really was a bumbling dispatcher who is so incompetent she cannot master the very first thing a dispatcher must do when taking a description, take suspects race and pass onto responding officers and by doing so puts their own lives at risk, yet no action was taken, no dispatcher’s name ever given etc. Anyway, that is not really important because both scenarios must, by the very words of the R.O’s that night, must know that the suspect was not Black, but White. Why did he let him walk away? Why didn’t he want to report seeing this man? This may also give us Foukes sudden reversal on his original claim that he stopped and spoke to the male. When Fouke is backed into a corner and is almost pushed into having to confess the encounter, he cannot now dare admit to speaking to the man because he will know, if the man he saw, and with whom he may be aquainted with or at least recognized is ever discovered and caught, then people will demand instantly "Hang on, I though this officer said he spoke to the Suspect back in 1969? How could he not have known who he was talking too?
So, I await the critics because this would be, by definition, a Conspiracy lol. And well all know that we’ve been conditioned to associate that word with crackpots and nut jobs, when the word simply implies that two or more people are planning and plotting to commit a crime or any other lesser offence.
"So it’s sorta social. Demented and sad, but social, right?" Judd Nelson.
Yes, you’re right. The story of what happened that night makes a lot more sense once you dispense with the "wrong dispatch" part.
But what are you suggesting, though, about the man who was possibly recognized by the eight year old? And who Fouke would have a good reason not to stop?
Yes, you’re right. The story of what happened that night makes a lot more sense once you dispense with the "wrong dispatch" part.
But what are you suggesting, though, about the man who was possibly recognized by the eight year old? And who Fouke would have a good reason not to stop?
Thanks Jem.
As to who I am suggesting it may be, I am not suggesting a specific name or person, but rather looking at the type of person that would be deemed to be ‘out of bounds’ for arrest, so to speak. I’m thinking not about a specific person, but rather what type of job position or status in a society a man would need to hold in order for regular police patrol officers to feel they were not able to arrest him or detain him?
He’d have to be above them in their own chain of command.
A well know political figure or is known to be associated with those who are at high levels of power within Government.
Or a face that maybe appears regularly on tv and is known to both the eight year old and Fouke.
I am not suggesting that one of the three above must have been the profession Zodiac was in, rather just giving examples that I can think of of the type of person that may be able to avoid being arrested.
Zodiac said ‘I’m Crackproof’ and that is taken as just another egotistical boast. But he may actually mean he is above suspicion and arrest because of who he is?
What do you think Jem?
"So it’s sorta social. Demented and sad, but social, right?" Judd Nelson.
If the description had been given as A BMA as they suggest, then it was not done by the reportee teenagers because in Pelissetti’s own words they were the ones who, as soon as A.P spoke to them said a white man had just gone down Cherry St after walking away from the cab. So A.P then states "I couldn’t get to the radio fast enough to let everybody else know". This happenes before Don Fouke drives up on a white male a few minutes later on Jackson so Don Fouke would have known by A.P’s radio update that the suspect was White a full few minutes before encountering Zodiac near Maple intersection. Don Fouke has never made a reference to A.P’s claim to either state he heard no such ammendment by Pellisetti.
Actually, he has.
http://www.mikerodelli.com/4interview.htm l”> http://web.archive.org/web/200605011936 … rview.html
According to Fouke, the initial description that came over the radio was ‘black male adult’. He ignored Zodiac on account of the killer being white and drove on. When he reached the corner of Jackson and Cherry, Fouke spotted Pelissetti coming up Cherry Street. Pelissetti had arrived at the crime scene first, and gotten a correct description from the kids, which he reported back to headquarters immediately.
Upon rendezvousing with Fouke, he asked Fouke if he had seen anybody during his drive to the crime scene. Fouke replied that he had seen nobody apart from a white guy back on Jackson Street. Pelissetti then told Fouke that the suspect was white. Fouke quickly doubled back, but Zodiac was gone. The amended description that Pelissetti reported to headquarters was then broadcast over the radio.
The dispatcher probably mistook the kids’ description of ‘white dude in a black jacket’ for ‘black-skinned dude’ or some such, commencing a chain of regrettable events. And then the amended description that Pelissetti subsequently obtains gets aired too late. Seems to me like the blame rests squarely on the people at headquarters, including the dispatcher.
So, if the teens seem only too aware the suspect was white from the second A.P arrived on scene then we must assume that if a mistake was made, it was made by the dispatcher herself. Well, considering that this so called blunder is given as the reason that Zodiac, a serial killer who’s appearing on America’s Most Wanted on day, the Chronicle Front page the next, was able to walk away into the night. So, obviously because the monumental blunder led to the Capture of Zodiac being missed, there would be a huge internal investigation, the dispatcher will be named instantly because it wouldn’t be good to have the patrol officers appear to be responsible, we would hear this dispatchers reasons for making such a consequential mistake? None of the above, not a flicker of interest shown in questioning the offending dispatcher. This idiotic dispatcher who hears white as Black was spared being repremanded on account of her not existing! So the teens knew full well the suspect was white, the dispatcher
I see no reason why SFPD would’ve bared the facts of an internal investigation, including the names of those responsible. All they had to do in response to Zodiac’s claims of having fooled their officers was call him a liar.
For all we know, the offending dispatcher was, indeed sacked, or worse. I really wouldn’t be surprised to learn if they drank themselves to death, or committed suicide. To me, it is they, not Fouke, Zelms or Pelissetti, who blew the Zodiac case wide open.
If the description had been given as A BMA as they suggest, then it was not done by the reportee teenagers because in Pelissetti’s own words they were the ones who, as soon as A.P spoke to them said a white man had just gone down Cherry St after walking away from the cab. So A.P then states "I couldn’t get to the radio fast enough to let everybody else know". This happenes before Don Fouke drives up on a white male a few minutes later on Jackson so Don Fouke would have known by A.P’s radio update that the suspect was White a full few minutes before encountering Zodiac near Maple intersection. Don Fouke has never made a reference to A.P’s claim to either state he heard no such ammendment by Pellisetti.
Actually, he has.
http://www.mikerodelli.com/4interview.htm l”> http://web.archive.org/web/200605011936 … rview.html
According to Fouke, the initial description that came over the radio was ‘black male adult’. He ignored Zodiac on account of the killer being white and drove on. When he reached the corner of Jackson and Cherry, Fouke spotted Pelissetti coming up Cherry Street. Pelissetti had arrived at the crime scene first, and gotten a correct description from the kids, which he reported back to headquarters immediately.
Not according to A.P, he says that he broadcast the suspect description within minutes of arriving and having been told by the witnesses that the man they were looking for was White. He then says he walked down Cherry, onto Jackson and down to Maple Intersection, spoke to the dog walker, turned, walked back up Jackson, turned onto Cherry, and to quote A.P directly "And at that point, Officer Don Fouke, accompanied by Rokkie Officer Eric Zelms, pulled up very quickly".
Again, whichever version is correct is open to argument, the question I would ask is why the accounts seem to differ and don’t match up at all?Upon rendezvousing with Fouke, he asked Fouke if he had seen anybody during his drive to the crime scene. Fouke replied that he had seen nobody apart from a white guy back on Jackson Street. Pelissetti then told Fouke that the suspect was white. Fouke quickly doubled back, but Zodiac was gone. The amended description that Pelissetti reported to headquarters was then broadcast over the radio.
So your saying that Pellisetti decided not to alert all other responding units himself via his one radio/frequency, and decided instead to tell a few of his bosses, who subsequently broacast another radio message to then untits on the grond with the updated information? Was A.P on a different redio frequency to fouke? Did the radio Pellisetti used to contact headquarters the same radio or frequency as that of the one used by SFPD Patrol Officers/ And finally, did A.P have a radio with the ability to inform responding units that there had been an ammendment, or is the proceedure for broadcasting urgent and critical updates with each other, they must first inform headquarters? I mean, if Patrol Car No.1 wants to alert Patrol Cars 2, 3 and 4 to a vital new change in a suspects description because Patrol Car 1 knows that cars 2,3 aand 4 are on their way, would patrol car No. 1 first have to tell the more important people at Headquarters so that they in turn can then tell patrols 2, 3 and 4? Why do Patrol cars have radios if they appear to not communicate with each other, or are not allowed untill word comes down from Inspector level that they may do so?
But ok, lets assume that A.P had gave the ammended info to his superiors at headquarters, Pellisetti had been on scene and walked Cherry and Jackson, turned, and repeated the same ground back towards the cab, which he specifically mentions being cautious and walking, not running. So a good 10 mins has elapsed inbetween the radio ammendment made by A.P and Don’s arrival. When were the big wigs at headquarters going to broadcast this most vital of new updates? And I don’t know where you read that version of events you just gave there, but if that were the way the it happened and A.P encountered Fouke as A.P was on his way toward Jackson, and not back from Jackson, then Foke would have turned round, and headed toward the intersection of Maple in his cruizer and A.P following behind on foot. So, Don Fouke is now parked somewhere around the Intersection of J’son & M’le, and Armond gets there shortly atfter and says that upon his arrival "I looked to the left toward the wall into the presidio, saw absolutely nothing, looked to the right, saw a man walking his dog and asked him had he seen anyone and he said no". (Where Fouke and Zelms have ow gone os a mystery because they are not there with A.P? A,P then states that he walked back up Jackson and onto Cherry and in his version, it was after returning from his walk down Jackson and back to Cherry that Fouke Arrives. If A.P was on his way down Cherry and toward Jackson when Fouke pulled up, then we would have to now believe that Fouke tells Armond that he has just seen a White Male on Jackson and Armond, dispite telling us that he was ‘Using every techneque he knew trying not to get his head blown off as there are numerous alcoves and ally’s along that street’ decided not to get into Fouke’s car and go with them to the scene, but decided to walk down Jackson, and this is after Fouke has just told him there was a White Male on the street just seconds ago before he pulled up? That is absolute crap in my opinion.The dispatcher probably mistook the kids’ description of ‘white dude in a black jacket’ for ‘black-skinned dude’ or some such, commencing a chain of regrettable events. And then the amended description that Pelissetti subsequently obtains gets aired too late. Seems to me like the blame rests squarely on the people at headquarters, including the dispatcher.
So, if the teens seem only too aware the suspect was white from the second A.P arrived on scene then we must assume that if a mistake was made, it was made by the dispatcher herself. Well, considering that this so called blunder is given as the reason that Zodiac, a serial killer who’s appearing on America’s Most Wanted on day, the Chronicle Front page the next, was able to walk away into the night. So, obviously because the monumental blunder led to the Capture of Zodiac being missed, there would be a huge internal investigation, the dispatcher will be named instantly because it wouldn’t be good to have the patrol officers appear to be responsible, we would hear this dispatchers reasons for making such a consequential mistake? None of the above, not a flicker of interest shown in questioning the offending dispatcher. This idiotic dispatcher who hears white as Black was spared being repremanded on account of her not existing! So the teens knew full well the suspect was white, the dispatcher
I see no reason why SFPD would’ve bared the facts of an internal investigation, including the names of those responsible. All they had to do in response to Zodiac’s claims of having fooled their officers was call him a liar.
For all we know, the offending dispatcher was, indeed sacked, or worse. I really wouldn’t be surprised to learn if they drank themselves to death, or committed suicide. To me, it is they, not Fouke, Zelms or Pelissetti, who blew the Zodiac case wide open.
Ok I have a few questions…
"I see no reason why SFPD would’ve bared the facts of an internal investigation, including the names of those responsible. All they had to do in response to Zodiac’s claims of having fooled their officers was call him a liar."
Well that sounds easy, but this encounter took place on a street at a junction where many people my have witnessed the police speaking to a man from their homes, or the man walking his dog, any other citizen close by who saw the police speaking with a man etc. And I never claimed any agency was blocking an internal investigation, I just said one didn’t seem to have been carried out. And more importantly than the dispatcher’s alleged mistake, any detectives, Inspectors or Chiefs ask Don why he failed to mention a suspect having been seen by him and why he witheld that information and crucial eye witness description of the man untill the offender himself wrote to the press telling them about it before SFPD knew? I mean what logical reason do you think you can give to Fouke not giving vital suspect info such as what he was wearing, age, hair, weight, height, aswel as location of sighting etc? Did Don simply forget seeing him? I’d say theres almost Zero chance it just slipped his mind. Did he not mention it because he had not apprehended the man and feared the reaction of his peers and public? Well as I said, he has an easy answer to that, it was not his fault, the dispatcher had fed him incorrect suspect details, why didn’t he just say that if it really happened that way and divert the blame where it would then belong, at the desk of this dispatcher?
"So it’s sorta social. Demented and sad, but social, right?" Judd Nelson.
It seems to me that this is either down to two A or B.
A. The Officers have deliberately change the version of events or are not telling the whole story of what happened that night?
B. The SFPD are the most bumbling, stupid and incompetent Police Force in the United States, as are their dispatch personel.
In my opinion, it isn’t option B. And given that we know Fouke tried his best to conceal and cover up the fact that he’d even seen anyone at all that night, then option A is far more likely IMO. If the events of Oct 11 really were just down to a huge mass of mistakes and errors then this is what we have to believe the SFPD did that night…
First Officer on scene turns up and wants to know where the black suspect went and is told the suspect was White. Armond then said, quote "I couldn’t get to the radio fast enough to let every one else know", and by this he doesn’t mean the other units closing in to his location, but rather someone sat in a station miles away who is going to finish his crossword puzzle and coffee before he then, in turn, relays this absolute urgent and critical information to the other units at least more than 10 minutes late.
If Fouke arrived on Cherry before Armond had been able to get to the top of Cherry and walk down Jackson, then we now must believe that Fouke stops and speaks to Armond and tells him he has just passed a white male matching the suspects description on Jackson no more than a minute ago, and Armond then, who knows fully well at this stage that the suspect is armed, tells Fouke to carry on to the area as he fancies a stroll down Jackson street on his own where the armed suspect was just possibly seen.
All other units that have responded and are searching the surrounding streets are all dashing around Pacific Heights looing for Black Males as Headquarters are still to busy with investigating the latest dog fouling offences to have time to broadcast info that may result in the arrest and detainment of California’s most wanted man.
Officer Fouke saw a white male who he states "DID put his head down when he spotted the police car and turned into the entrance way to a house", while Fouke drove on by. Again, we are asked now to believe that when a homicde has been committed at 10pm at an intersection, and responding officers approaching shortly after 10pm observe a male roughly 200 yards away heading away from the scene who then spots them, puts his head down so they can’t see his face and then instantly swerve off to his left and onto a home’s driveway area and now has his back to passing officers, that this isn’t conidered to be acting suspicious at all by SFPD who will just roll on past you.
Officer Pellisetti is adamant "He (Fouke) told me that he had stopped and spoken to the suspect. I feel Fouke would have been honest but that scratch (memo) and what he told me do not match). Officer Fouke "We never stopped the man, never talked to him…. That is an emphatic statement by me! I wouldn’t make the denial". What like he did with his keeping quiet, refusing to come foreward about even seeing a suspect at first, let alone speaking to him? Armond must have been a willing participant in the initial decision not to say aything about the White Male because, according to Armond, Fouke told him in the direct aftermath of having seen and spoken to the White Male. Then, a couple of days later when it emerges that ‘Zodiac’ was the responsible, neither Armond, Fouke nor Zelms now come foreward due to the stakes just having been raised hugely in them having seen his face! Nope, nobody says anything. Around 4 weeks later, Zodiac realizes that the SFPD are not admitting this part of the nights events, and so being the helpful man he is, does it for them.
I could carry on, there is more I can pick from, but do I really need to? Lol.
"So it’s sorta social. Demented and sad, but social, right?" Judd Nelson.
Mistakes happen and unfortunately, it happened that night. I do believe the call went out.
I have read though that Palessetti stayed by that car until others in LE got there so there was no way anyone else could have left the bloody print on the car door. I thought it was said he even knew medical personell couldn’t have been responsible because he was there guarding/watching.
If he was walking around right after the crime, doesn’t that make it impossible he was guarding the cab?
“…they may be dealing with one or more ersatz Zodiacs–other psychotics eager to get into the act, or perhaps even other murderers eager to lay their crimes at the real Zodiac’s doorstep.“ L.A. Times, 1969
If that version is correct Tahoe, it would. I’ve never heard that account of Pellisetti. Where is that account taken from Tahoe?
According to Armond’s statements in the 2007 Documentary:
"I got back to the scene and it was sometime shortly thereafter that the Ambulance Crew, The Coroner, A Fire Truck, Inspector Walt Crackey, of the homicide detail…. and then about 3,4 or maybe 5 minutes there-after, Inspector Dave Toschi and Dave Armstrong, two of the best, arrived at the scene."
I don’t know why, and this is based on nothing other than a gut feeling, but i’ve always thought that this event, The Stine Murder, the one that is the key to solving the case but I honestly can’t say why I have always had that gut feeling, it’s not based on anything I can put my finger on. This was before i’d even come across the FBI’s file regarding the Eight Year Old. In fact, if there was one question i would really want SFPD to answer it would be ‘what name did the child give you?’ I mean I am unsure on U.S law in regards to witnesse, but I know that the FBI will release info on someone in their files if they have any as long as the person is dead so the privacy laws can then no longer apply. I don’t really want to know the name of the witness anyway, its the name the witness gave I would love to know.
"So it’s sorta social. Demented and sad, but social, right?" Judd Nelson.
I wonder at the time the kids rang in to report the crime, if they were asked for/or offered any further description of the perp and whether or not that was relayed on. Let’s allow the error a BMA…..navy jacket/blonde/red hair/ glasses??? Probably not, but if so, we would have many more question to be asking Fouke.
Just a further comment re the dogs and Capt Lee’s statement about a mouse not being able to escape…..a while back there was a piece done with the head of the Dogs unit ( forget his name). He effectively rubbished that saying, by the time they got there it was a waste of time as the area had been trampled by officers.
I wonder at the time the kids rang in to report the crime, if they were asked for/or offered any further description of the perp and whether or not that was relayed on. Let’s allow the error a BMA…..navy jacket/blonde/red hair/ glasses??? Probably not, but if so, we would have many more question to be asking Fouke.
Just a further comment re the dogs and Capt Lee’s statement about a mouse not being able to escape…..a while back there was a piece done with the head of the Dogs unit ( forget his name). He effectively rubbished that saying, by the time they got there it was a waste of time as the area had been trampled by officers.
Yeah I asked someone not long back if the K-9 units, any of them, went to the actual cab first, or did they just go straight to Julius Kahn area? Apparantly, no dog units were taken to the scene itself so that is yet another mistake. These dogs are fantastic at what they do, their sense of smell is hundreds of times stronger than ours. I often wonder if they had taken one of the dogs to the door of the cab whether it would have picked up the scent (I mean Z’s scent because Pellisetti claims to have walked the same route after Z)? I mean if Fouke is being honest regarding the suspect turning into the driveway of 3712 Jackson when he spotted Fouke approaching, then you never know, the dog may have followed a scent down Cherry, along Jackson, and then left onto the driveway and maybe into the rear of the garden area where Zodiac could have been hid? If you go on google map street view and look at the back of the house, it offers alost a perfect vabtage point to observe the search while remaining out of police view. No evidence to suggest he would have been there, and i’m not saying that I believe he would have been. Just saying it’s possible, and that was the last place Zodiac was seen, according to Fouke, heading toward.
"So it’s sorta social. Demented and sad, but social, right?" Judd Nelson.
I don’t suppose we are ever going to find out now but I imagine the evidence, that made them start with the dogs at the Presidio, must have been strong and/or coming from a cop. I seriously doubt Pellisetti’s movements would have thrown off dogs with blood in their nostrils but overall, this was probably the biggest error they made that night. Some at least should have started at the cab, they also should have been made aware of where exactly Z was last seen. Can’t remember now but (I stand to be corrected) it was either 20 or 40 minutes before the dogs arrived. I don’t believe Z ever made it to the Presidio and it’s highly likely he was either boxed in and couldn’t move or had reason/excuse to be in one of those houses on Jackson or close.
Hard to imagine why the dogs wouldn’t have led right to him, had they started at the right place.
I don’t suppose we are ever going to find out now but I imagine the evidence, that made them start with the dogs at the Presidio, must have been strong and/or coming from a cop. I seriously doubt Pellisetti’s movements would have thrown off dogs with blood in their nostrils but overall, this was probably the biggest error they made that night. Some at least should have started at the cab, they also should have been made aware of where exactly Z was last seen. Can’t remember now but (I stand to be corrected) it was either 20 or 40 minutes before the dogs arrived. I don’t believe Z ever made it to the Presidio and it’s highly likely he was either boxed in and couldn’t move or had reason/excuse to be in one of those houses on Jackson or close.
Hard to imagine why the dogs wouldn’t have led right to him, had they started at the right place.
Yeah I tend to think along the same lines as that. If Zodiac was ‘trapped’ in the area, with the number of officers searching, to quote Chief Lee "Tree by tree, Bush by bush", and the search lights they used to light the entire area, the lack of escape options if he was caught in the middle of that would lead me to think he wouldn’t be able to avoid being detected, thats with dogs or otherwise. Where-ever he was, it seems he could see and hear the search party and their cars, motorcycles and fire trucks, he could see the ‘two groups of parking’ and the distance between them etc etc, but it seems that the police couldn’t, or were not able, to see him. That, for me, would narrow down then number of potential places he could have been.
"So it’s sorta social. Demented and sad, but social, right?" Judd Nelson.
If Fouke recognized the man in a biblical way he might not have wanted people to know. It was a different time then. So rather than risk the man recognizing him and telling the detectives of their exchange he moved right along. That could explain a lot of his evasive behavior.
If Fouke recognized the man in a biblical way he might not have wanted people to know. It was a different time then. So rather than risk the man recognizing him and telling the detectives of their exchange he moved right along. That could explain a lot of his evasive behavior.
Oh, man. You can’t make this stuff up. Don Fouke: Zodiac’s lover? Please. 
I think the person identified by the eight year old would most likely be a neighbor or someone who worked in the neighborhood, like a landscaper. Someone he or she knew or had seen hanging around.
Since PH was an upscale neighborhood, could have been some prominent citizen of San Francisco. My guess is that the further you go back in time, 1) it’s more likely that a report from an 8 yo would be discounted, and 2) it’s more likely that someone known to be an upstanding citizen, which would probably include just about anyone living in PH, would be quickly discounted as being involved in a cabbie murder.
Today we know that many criminals, and most serial killers in particular, look just like everyone else. In the 60’s, people thought criminals looked like the bad guys in the movies. Like Charles Manson, not Ted Bundy. If Fouke did stop and talk to Stine’s killer, he probably thought the guy looked too "normal" and spoke too politely to be the bad guy. Just my opinion.
About the 8 yo, do we know for sure that he or she was not a sibling of the other children? Could it be that the 16 yo boy was babysitting his younger siblings and the 14 yo was actually a friend of the 13 yo girl, and the 8 yo was the youngest sibling?
