I’ve always thought the same thing, greg… that the assumption Zodiac "would have been covered in blood" (Toschi [Ruffalo] in the movie) was an odd jump to conclusion. Police are trained to spot such oddities on civilians. A man–white or black–covered in blood would have been corralled for questioning, either as a suspect, or in the manner of, "Sir, were you interfering with a crime scene?" (And an overcoat discarded near the scene–in a backyard, say–would have been recovered by LE.) I think this is why Pelissetti does not believe Fouke saw Zodiac, because Pelissetti assumes Zodiac would have been drenched in blood. But why would the killer have been? His back seat position would (likely) have been a natural barrier to most of the blood spatter, and a shot to the skull doesn’t require the shooter to be in body-to-body contact. The cutting of the shirt could have been careful enough to avoid any blood Stine was losing.

Since we cannot know for sure what was Zodiac’s clothing situation in relation to blood stain, I’ve always thought it safer not to assume one way or the other. Maybe he was just that cautious that he was able to maintain minimal contact with blood. This guy was smart enough to evade capture in a relatively tight noose around that neighborhood. He might just have been wise enough to plan for blood ahead of time.

Bloodstains look like water on navy blue or black clothing.

Couple that with the fact that it was night-time, and Fouke wouldn’t have seen ANYTHING.

But didn’t Fouke say that street lights in that area made it very easy to see things? Fouke’s amazing color description of the guy’s pants etc. would have been possible only with a generous amount of lighting. "… three-quarter waist length jacke, with elastic at the waist and cuffs … wearing rust-colored, pleated trousers … engineering-type boots, low-cut shoe, three-quarters of the way in length, tan in color…." That kind of description, at the speed Fouke was driving, requires extremely good lighhting.

Anyway…. we can haggle about that. The point I made is about the assumption that the murderer would necessarily be blood-covered. It isn’t necessarily so.

Still, even if the lighting were good, the most he would’ve seen would’ve been stains that looked like water.

At the end of the day, Fouke was looking for a black dude.

I’m sure when Zodiac found out that LE was looking for a black dude, he got a big laugh out of that. One of the Zodiac’s motivations,
was to mess with the Police. He probably did tell some cops he saw "a guy running that way with a gun". Hilarious. Hanging around the
scene to watch? Absolutely. I’m beginning to think Zodiac was there on foot a LHR because of the timeline. Hiding in the field, watching
everything go down, watching the Police, like the weirdos who get off on Ambulances and Sirens.

Well the three Teen’s who witnessed Z wiping down the cab and walking away down Cherry Street told Armond Pelissetti that the suspect had only seconds ago walked away down Cherry Street and may even still have been lurking there somewhere. So Armond must have arrived on scene literally seconds, maybe a minute or two at the most, after Zodiac has walked away and I was thinking about this the other day and what Armond said in the 2008 Documentary:

"I was the first Officer who responded on the scene, working with an Officer who is since deceased, Frank Peda, and excellent Officer. We responded to a radio call that told us that a Cab driver was being robbed and/or possibly assaulted at the corner of Cherry & Washington Streets in Pacific Heights. We, fortunately, were very close and responded to that corner and were able to do so with Red lights and Siren at 9:55 at night and got there very quickly."

Zodiac probably heard Pelissetti approaching from a couple of blocks away. Hearing a police siren heading in his direction as he stood outside the cab wiping the door down would have been more than enough to encourage Zodiac to leave the scene immediately. Maybe that’s why Pauls body was found in the unusual position it was because Zodiac was leaning into thecabs front door the teens say doing something to Paul’s body and if he heard Pelissetti’s siren approaching as he’s doing this, I doubt he’d worry about, nor take time to, prop Paul back upright.

That could even be the reason Zodiac walked off down Cherry St, because he heard Pelissetti fast approaching along Washington St and so his heading down Cherry may have been necessary to elude the car he knows is coming along Washington. He couldn’t have dashed down Cherry St to get to the Presidio as soon as possible because he could have used the Entrance at the top of Cherry St, but he ignores that to stay on the sidewalk and lit streets when he knows that Police are responding.

I guess the shirt was cut out already before Z heard the siren…it’s cut out quite properly in a geometric form. Guess from the time of the shooting to the police call it also might have taken a few minutes.

QT

The shirt was ripped, not cut. It tore in a straight line horizontally and vertically as fabric will do when you rip it. So nothing mysterious about the shape of the piece taken from the shirt.

I’m almost certain Zodiac high-tailed it to his car shortly after encountering Fouke and Zelms, then cruised by and observed the police search from the safety of the driver’s seat.

I agree. He could have drove around the area for hours, stopping to park in random spots for a few minutes and moving on. Police were looking for a perp on foot, not in a vehicle.

I disagree about the shooter leaving in a car right away. I believe he had access to an apt on Pacific Ave. and watched everything safely from a window facing the park. He was a known liar, I believe he lied about hiding in the bushes of the park.

The house I found had a downstairs apt. and a back door that leads to the playground! ( It is still there) That was the last place he was spotted. Those apts could be rented by the day, week, or month. There were two renovations going on in that area, Zodiac could have been working there for a few days? It is unlikely he drove from Vallejo to do the shooting then back to Vallejo and back again to mail the letter. I think he wanted to make the investigators think he lived in SF when he was a resident of Vallejo. It was also to let people know he could kill anyone, anywhere, at any time! He had all of Calif. terrified, which made him feel powerful!

Bloodstains look like water on navy blue or black clothing.

Couple that with the fact that it was night-time, and Fouke wouldn’t have seen ANYTHING.

Right! And, what probable cause would Fouke or Zelms have had to detain a guy walking down the street? At best, they could stop him and ask him where he came from and where he was going. If the man was Zodiac and he said, "I am coming from XYZ and walking to my friend’s house at this address", what more could the police officer’s do? Zodiac seems like a cool character under pressure, so I doubt he just starts firing upon cops. He would probably have calmly answered questions and moved on. Unless Fouke saw a bulge in the man’s jacket indicating a gun, he wouldn’t have any reason to pat him down. I think Zodiac would have got away. And, if he said, "the guy ran down that way", Fouke and Zelms would not have had a reason to further detain him.

I disagree about the shooter leaving in a car right away. I believe he had access to an apt on Pacific Ave. and watched everything safely from a window facing the park. He was a known liar, I believe he lied about hiding in the bushes of the park.

The house I found had a downstairs apt. and a back door that leads to the playground! ( It is still there) That was the last place he was spotted. Those apts could be rented by the day, week, or month. There were two renovations going on in that area, Zodiac could have been working there for a few days? It is unlikely he drove from Vallejo to do the shooting then back to Vallejo and back again to mail the letter. I think he wanted to make the investigators think he lived in SF when he was a resident of Vallejo. It was also to let people know he could kill anyone, anywhere, at any time! He had all of Calif. terrified, which made him feel powerful!

I can also speculate that aliens abducted him off of Jackson Street after Fouke drove by. Your speculation is no more founded in reality than mine. We simply don’t know what happened. I agree with Rodelli when he posits that Zodiac remained in the area and heard the sounds of the search. But, how he did that is up for debate. He could have posed as a homeless person in the park or out on the street somewhere. He could have jumped in a car and drove around the neighborhood, stopping at random spots for short intervals. He could have left the neighborhood and parked at a distance but still within earshot of the search. He could have had a spotter watching the search unfold for him while he was miles away. We simply don’t know.

His MO with other crimes suggests leaving the area fairly quickly after a killing. Why he would deviate from that for the Stine killing is unclear.

At least my "speculation" put him next to where he was last seen going towards the JK playground. You claim that you were the only one who spoke to LR? There were others who spoke to him.
For Zodiac to describe the actions in the park by the police, the dogs, and firemen, it makes more sense that he was watching from an apt on Pacific than driving around and hearing what was going on.

Blood on navy blue or black does "not" look like water, it looks like the color of mud.

I have walked the walk to the JK playground and back many times to see how long it would take to get there. And have been to every anniversary for 25 yrs! At least I and others are doing what we can to try and find answers, rather than sit around and do nothing except to make snarky remarks.
I have read most of your posts which tend to be on the negative side.

You mentioned the fingerprints being blurry, the cab prints are not the only prints that LE have for Zodiac. I was shown many from the Napa case. They have some from the phone booth and from Hartnell’s car. There is "plenty" of evidence in the Zodiac case to convict him once they catch him. ( If he is still alive!) You also stated that Zodiac would have sent letters after the movie came out or when Seda pretended to be the Zodiac. Not sure where you have been, but there have been Z-like letters and phone calls all the way to 2010. Sadly the police didn’t want to believe the letters or calls came from the Zodiac. They haven’t proven that it wasn’t him either.
Check out Richards Grinell’s site to see the other Z letters , Richard makes some great points about those latest letters!

Bloodstains look like water on navy blue or black clothing.

Couple that with the fact that it was night-time, and Fouke wouldn’t have seen ANYTHING.

Right! And, what probable cause would Fouke or Zelms have had to detain a guy walking down the street? At best, they could stop him and ask him where he came from and where he was going. If the man was Zodiac and he said, "I am coming from XYZ and walking to my friend’s house at this address", what more could the police officer’s do? Zodiac seems like a cool character under pressure, so I doubt he just starts firing upon cops. He would probably have calmly answered questions and moved on. Unless Fouke saw a bulge in the man’s jacket indicating a gun, he wouldn’t have any reason to pat him down. I think Zodiac would have got away. And, if he said, "the guy ran down that way", Fouke and Zelms would not have had a reason to further detain him.

The way Fouke described his unusual walk that leads straight to Rick Marshall (his description matched his walk). Crew cut, age, all matched SF resident RM. And he was still playing games on his death bed about Zodiac. They didn’t visit him for nothing. Close but no cigar.

The tearing of the shirt is what really puzzles me. Fabric can be very difficult to tear unless there is a pre-existing rip or cut. When buying it, the salesperson usually makes a little snip with a pair of scissors and then it will rip easily.

Since Paul Stine was working, I’d think his shirt was in good condition without any rips or holes. There would be a seam or hem at the bottom which would make ripping it very hard to do and would take some time! So I’m thinking maybe Zodiac had something like a pocket knife with him that he was in the habit of carrying all the time. But even if so, it seems like it would be difficult to use for tearing the shirt.

I don’t think I’ve ever heard of anyone carrying scissors around with them either but if this murder was pre-meditated, perhaps he had some and used them for the shirt.