Why are you using GIANT FONT?

Why are you using GIANT FONT?

Im old. I use large not huge. The smaller font isnt the easiest on my eyes. Didnt realize it was an issue.

LHR is questionable to me, despite Z’s claims because the victimology isn’t right. Doesn’t mean I completely doubt it, but of the knowns, it raises the most questions to me. Likewise, I believe the similarities between the Domingos/Edwards killings and Lake Berryessa are too strong to be dismissed.

Without diving to deeply in, there is no real evidence of a Zodiac copycat / hoax. If Z was taking credit for any of the main crimes he is widely believed to have committed, then he managed to pick crimes that are still unsolved after almost 50 years.

The hoax "theories" all have major flaws. Just because there are gaps in the understanding of the case is not a good reason to believe anything beyond what the primary evidence suggests. The burden of proof is on the accuser, and with the hoax / copycat stuff, the evidence is not on that side.

Why are you using GIANT FONT?

Im old. I use large not huge. The smaller font isnt the easiest on my eyes. Didnt realize it was an issue.

It’s not an issue Phylos…and it’s not an issue for Paul_A when he wants to get his point across…he makes them big and bold.

Some folks tend to get a bit snippy when you think outside the box. I think it’s a good thing to do. Staying inside hasn’t done a darn bit of good.

The ‘victimology’ of Lake Herman Road is the same as Lake Berryessa and Blue Rock Springs, a young couple on a date.
Zodiac July 31st 1969- "the girl was on her right side feet to the west."
Stella Borges in the police report only minutes after the crime- "The girl was lying on her side facing the road."
Betty Lou Jensen was described as lying face down by responders, only the letter writer and Stella Borges noted she was on her right side. Betty Lou could only have been on her right side for a matter of minutes, until Daniel Pitta arrived. The logical conclusion is the letter writer and killer are one and the same. There is however some question marks on whether just one person was involved at Lake Herman Road, although this cannot be proven. Eight bullets were allegedly recovered that night and sent to the Department of Justice, Bureau of Criminal Identification for examination. One of the bullets didn’t exhibit 6 right hand groove class characteristics, when compared to the other seven. This bullet came from David Faraday. While this does not conclusively indicate that this bullet was distinct and separate, it does raise questions, particularly in respect to the missing bullet casing never tested at the DOJ. Sgt Silva and Dan Horan retrieved 9 of the 10 casings from the turnout floor, but it’s likely the 10th casing got towed away with the Rambler and ultimately separated. Bearing in mind where Faraday was positioned when he got shot, this casing could easily have been the one ejected into the open door of the Rambler, marked on the sketch. If this casing was ever retrieved and it showed different characteristics as the other nine casings, bearing in mind the different class characteristics exhibited by the Faraday bullet, a second shooter or weapon could be argued. But other than this, the body position of Betty Lou Jensen, described by the July 31st 1969 letter writer is some evidence towards a personal knowledge of the crime, whereas evidence to the contrary does not exist.
There are similarities between the Domingos/Edwards murders and Lake Berryessa, but simply not enough solid evidence to ever tie the two into a neat bundle. If we take an impartial look at the Domingos/Edwards crime, it is fairly easy to give a laundry list of dissimilarities between this and Lake Berryessa, not withstanding we have no clue to his attire that day. But what we do know, is that it would have been extremely difficult for one person to drag two bodies the best part of 60 feet in that terrain. As for Blue Rock Springs, Lake Berryessa and Presidio Heights being Zodiac, not one single piece of evidence has ever been put forward or been successfully argued to create any doubt in my mind. As for the hoax theory, just listen to Michael Morford and Thomas Horan discussing the Zodiac on a recent podcast. By the end of the discussion Thomas Horan has implicated Harold Snook, Dennis Land, Robert Graysmith, Keith Power, Donald Duck, Elvis Presley, Uncle Tom Cobley, and the marching band of the Highland Dragoon Infantry. The real hoax is the book he peddles.

The ‘victimology’ of Lake Herman Road is the same as Lake Berryessa and Blue Rock Springs, a young couple on a date.
Zodiac July 31st 1969- "the girl was on her right side feet to the west."
Stella Borges in the police report only minutes after the crime- "The girl was lying on her side facing the road."
Betty Lou Jensen was described as lying face down by responders, only the letter writer and Stella Borges noted she was on her right side. Betty Lou could only have been on her right side for a matter of minutes, until Daniel Pitta arrived. The logical conclusion is the letter writer and killer are one and the same. There is however some question marks on whether just one person was involved at Lake Herman Road, although this cannot be proven. Eight bullets were allegedly recovered that night and sent to the Department of Justice, Bureau of Criminal Identification for examination. One of the bullets didn’t exhibit 6 right hand groove class characteristics, when compared to the other seven. This bullet came from David Faraday. While this does not conclusively indicate that this bullet was distinct and separate, it does raise questions, particularly in respect to the missing bullet casing never tested at the DOJ. Sgt Silva and Dan Horan retrieved 9 of the 10 casings from the turnout floor, but it’s likely the 10th casing got towed away with the Rambler and ultimately separated. Bearing in mind where Faraday was positioned when he got shot, this casing could easily have been the one ejected into the open door of the Rambler, marked on the sketch. If this casing was ever retrieved and it showed different characteristics as the other nine casings, bearing in mind the different class characteristics exhibited by the Faraday bullet, a second shooter or weapon could be argued. But other than this, the body position of Betty Lou Jensen, described by the July 31st 1969 letter writer is some evidence towards a personal knowledge of the crime, whereas evidence to the contrary does not exist.
There are similarities between the Domingos/Edwards murders and Lake Berryessa, but simply not enough solid evidence to ever tie the two into a neat bundle. If we take an impartial look at the Domingos/Edwards crime, it is fairly easy to give a laundry list of dissimilarities between this and Lake Berryessa, not withstanding we have no clue to his attire that day. But what we do know, is that it would have been extremely difficult for one person to drag two bodies the best part of 60 feet in that terrain. As for Blue Rock Springs, Lake Berryessa and Presidio Heights being Zodiac, not one single piece of evidence has ever been put forward or been successfully argued to create any doubt in my mind. As for the hoax theory, just listen to Michael Morford and Thomas Horan discussing the Zodiac on a recent podcast. By the end of the discussion Thomas Horan has implicated Harold Snook, Dennis Land, Robert Graysmith, Keith Power, Donald Duck, Elvis Presley, Uncle Tom Cobley, and the marching band of the Highland Dragoon Infantry. The real hoax is the book he peddles.

Richard,
I do not believe you understand what a victimology is. "A Young Couple on a Date" is not a victimology.

"A victimology is a thorough study of all victim information. This Includes items such as sex, age, height, weight, friends, family, acquaintances, education, employment, residence, and neighborhood. This also includes background information on the history and lifestyle of the victim such as overall personal habits, hobbies, criminal history, and medical histories. Establishing a proper victimology is a necessary part of determining the context of some crimes."

Basically the Concept of a Victimology Analysis is: Show me who was killed and I will show you who killed them. Being able to run a complete and objective Victimology is a critical aspect to any homicide investigation. It is not as simple a "A young couple on a date." There is extensive scholarship on understanding and applying the principles of Victimology Analysis, it is but one element of a complete offender profile. You have to be careful not to minimize its important. You complained earlier that Law Enforcement did not give you 5 seconds of their time, that you were often dismissed. It seems that you were rather dismissive of me, with a flippant depreciation of my post, where I simply asked forum members to take a look at different perspectives of their theories than what they view them through every day. That approach Richard, may be the reason that you find yourself dismissed by others. Ive attached a pic of a few Victimology Resources if you are interested, so that it may help your awareness of the subject. Hopefully it helps.
P

"Victimology, branch of criminology that scientifically studies the relationship between an injured party and an offender by examining the causes and the nature of the consequent suffering. Specifically, victimology focuses on whether the perpetrators were complete strangers, mere acquaintances, friends, family members, or even intimates and why a particular person or place was targeted." Encyclopaedia Brittanica.
Victimology "The study of the victims of crime and the psychological effects of their experience" Oxford Dictionary
I do understand what victimology is, but it has to be used in the correct context, so I was answering to what I believed you meant. Nobody survived the LHR shooting. I thought I was replying in a full and positive way. Why the sarcastic picture and attitude. You asked for a reply and I gave you one.

My response concerning Victimology was in response to your dismissal of my statement that they are different. If you understood what a Victimology Assessment and Analysis was, I figured you would have substantiated your claim "They are the same" with on point arguments. I dont think that any of us would argue that the Betty Lou Jensen and Darlene Ferrin have the same risk factors, vulnerabilities, behavioral choices. Likewise with Mageau and Faraday. The point of my overall post was to challenge our own individual theories at their weakest points. I believe it is most likely that all 4 crimes I listed are connected. But for the purpose of the topic, I challenged my own initial thoughts. I thought it would be insightful for anyone who wanted to reflect on their positions with opposing eyes. Apparently that point was missed; which can only be my own responsibility for poorly communicating the idea. As far as being sarcastic, it was on another post where you were you were implying I had to figure things out about law enforcement, dismissing my post there, then dismissing my post here, as if I knew nothing about how criminal investigations work. I work with law enforcement everyday, Ive worked in prosecution cases, Ive worked on defense cases, Ive investigated and moved cold cases. Your posts were quite negative towards law enforcement and it appeared dismissive of me. Based on your negativity, I responded with the same.

… The point of my overall post was to challenge our own individual theories at their weakest points..".

I respect this.

I am of the opinion the LHR murders were one person, but I challenged myself in this case by referring to the missing casing and bullet markings, bringing up the possibility of two guns or shooters, using tangible evidence. That is what you asked. Since you have worked with law enforcement, in prosecution cases and moved cold cases you clearly know the importance of evidence, which I was attempting to show. I won’t make the same mistake again. Have a great day.

For reasons Richard stated, one single killer….ZODIAC, killed both the Lake Herman Rd Victims, and attacked at BRS(and all of the other spots too). Zodiac, after writing his first letter claiming responsibility for the BRS & Lake Herman Rd attacks, correctly verified that Betty Lou Jensen was on her side when he left her. As Richard pointed out, Stella Borges arrived just a couple minutes later and saw Betty on her side, but by the time she came back with police, she had fallen face down. This proves that Zodiac hadn’t simply come along as a bystander, reporter,etc and simply seen Betty, because he had to be there to know that she had been on her side. This thread is a dead end. Zodiac, cruised around and found vulnerable couples to attack in secluded areas. The LHR couple, and BRS couple both fit this profile, wrong place,wrong time

I don’t think it is a "dead end" morf…even if you think Zodiac was responsible for everything ever written and every crime attributed to him…and then some. A different perspective can be good thing.

Always good to reevaluate evidence.

Why are you using GIANT FONT?

LOL Paul, that’s what I was going to say.

I understand the sentiment of this thread, but I guess I don’t see how to do it. In other words I believe that the four main Zodiac crimes are linked and connected, so in order to have to imagine that they were separate I would have to choose to ignore the parts that I think connect them. In doing that, I would then get an incomplete and false evaluation of each crime, even on an individual basis.

For the tangential cases, I don’t really think that any of them are connected anyway. Not very fun, I know. sorry.

I think it’s pretty unlikely that Kathy Johns was abducted by Z. Maybe he killed Domingos and Edwards, but without anything connected to writing, I think there are sufficient differences, time and location are a big factor, that it’s equally as possible that it was someone else.

For Cheri I’m always switching sides whenever I think about it. I don’t think I will ever know for certain.

I’ll try to contribute, but like I said I don’t know if there is any real value in it. For my criteria I would remove all of the evidence that connects to the Zodiac persona.

Based on that, If these crimes occurred today: I would feel confident saying that police would probably consider LHR and BRS as possibly related. Possibly consider LB, and probably would not consider SF as related to the others.

But that’s today. Back then you could’ve had a guy chopping up cheerleaders with a chainsaw and police might not have though they were related, and they in fact might not have been! In other words for random people to be murdered by a stranger without robbery in a secluded place is very unusual today and I think police recognize that.