One of the problems I have with the "Paul knew his killer" theory, is that Paul wasn’t supposed to work that night, but he ended up doing so. And, Paul was on his way to pick up passengers who called for a cab. The people who were waiting for Paul got another ride…so it appears that call did not come from Zodiac.

So if Zodiac knew Paul, how did he know where to go to get Paul? IF they knew each other, Zodiac must have been at the party Paul was at and followed him out, then went to the general area of where Paul was hanging out waiting for passengers. That would have been an interesting explanation to Paul.

It just doesn’t make sense. To me anyway…

I’m not convinced Zodiac knew any of his victims. But what do I know?

What is the basis for this idea that Z rode in the front seat? I’ve heard about it before, but I don’t remember where people got that idea. It doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. People were also saying things like Z drove the cab up from Maple St. and that he took Paul’s glasses. I don’t know where any of that stuff comes from.

What is the basis for this idea that Z rode in the front seat? I’ve heard about it before, but I don’t remember where people got that idea. It doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. People were also saying things like Z drove the cab up from Maple St. and that he took Paul’s glasses. I don’t know where any of that stuff comes from.

Not sure about the front seat part but I think it came from Toschi.

I’d wager the "zodiac drove the cab" comes from the fact that the kids in the house that witnessed zodiac wiping down the cab and such, never heard a gunshot.

The teen agers who provide the composite sketch info, watched Zodiac in the front seat that night with Paul Stine’s head in Zodiac’s lap.
Was Z tearing off the back of Paul’s shirt? they also watched Z wipe down the interior of the cab while still seated in the front seat.
My feeling is he didn’t know Paul Stine, but instead wished to deliberately mess with the SFPD, therefore targeting some random cab
driver. Zodiac wore the eyeglasses as a disguise that night, and an older gentleman’s clothes. He couldn’t wear gloves or he would look
suspicious. He came prepared with a loaded gun. He took evidence with him.

From what I understand, the idea that Zodiac & Paul knew each other comes from the following….

1. Pair of gloves found on floor in front passenger side of vehicle which is reason for some to suggest Zodiac rode up front.

2. Paul Stine’s widow said that her husband only ever allowed customers in the front of his cab with him if he knew them, otherwise they were made to ride in the back (I assume this may be due to the potential to be robbed of the takings if the person up front is a stranger)

I think the gloves are potentially Zodiac’s but I have never read much about them, wouldn’t they be a bevy of DNA, I doubt many in law
enforcement stuck their hands in them. What ever happened to the gloves?
And you would have to know my suspect to understand what an affable and charming guy he could be, smarter than most anyone he encountered,
he could have quickly jumped into the front seat with a smile and some excuse.
It could have been someone Paul Stine had picked up several times before though…

I think the gloves are potentially Zodiac’s but I have never read much about them, wouldn’t they be a bevy of DNA, I doubt many in law
enforcement stuck their hands in them. What ever happened to the gloves?
And you would have to know my suspect to understand what an affable and charming guy he could be, smarter than most anyone he encountered,
he could have quickly jumped into the front seat with a smile and some excuse.
It could have been someone Paul Stine had picked up several times before though…

All I think that is known about the gloves are that they were a size 7 (small sized glove for a man), and that they were found on the floor in the front passenger side.
Now obviously there are many question regarding the gloves and how they got there even if they were left as a red herring.

1. The gloves could have been left by a previous passenger.
2. If they were Zodiac’s, why would he not wear them and save himself the trouble of wiping the inside, and outside, of the cab down?
3. Zodiac seemed to take his time at the cab to remove all trace of any prints and himself, so is it really likely that he’d forget his gloves that, for some strange reason, he wasn’t wearing?
4. Zodiac claims in his letter that he was "Leaving fake clues for the police to run all over town with".

So who knows? Were they his, weren’t they his? Did he leave them by accident, or on purpose? Did he only bring them to leave there as a red herring of some sort? All questions we can ask and speculate as to the likely answer, but can’t say for sure either way.

Okay, let me try this on for size: Suppose Z knew Stine, perhaps as a fellow student at SFSU, and knew he drove a cab. Perhaps Stine innocently suggested to Z, "If you’re downtown and need a cab, hail me–I could use the money. You can recognize my cab because it’s got a dented side."
One night, Z decides to "do his thing", and conceals a 9mm on his person. Via car or public transportation, he heads downtown, happens to see Stine’s cab, and flags him down. The rest of the dots are easily connected.

Okay, let me try this on for size: Suppose Z knew Stine, perhaps as a fellow student at SFSU, and knew he drove a cab. Perhaps Stine innocently suggested to Z, "If you’re downtown and need a cab, hail me–I could use the money. You can recognize my cab because it’s got a dented side."
One night, Z decides to "do his thing", and conceals a 9mm on his person. Via car or public transportation, he heads downtown, happens to see Stine’s cab, and flags him down. The rest of the dots are easily connected.

Paul and his last fare may have known each other, no evidence to suggest he did or didn’t either way. Paul had been dispatched by his Office to pick up a fare at the airport at the time he stopped and agreed to take Z to Presidio Heights. Now I don’t know if it’s likely that Paul, knowing he had a fare waiting for him at the airport, would have parked up in the Theatre District of San Fran and waited to see if any fare’s were looking to go that way he was already heading? I can’t see Paul curb crawling at 5mph through the streets hoping a fare would want to go that way knowing he had a waiting customer. So maybe Paul did stop because he was hailed by someone he recognized, someone he was aquainted with enough to stop and agree to go slightly out of his way to Presidio Heights before picking up the fare at the airport, and someone who knew him well enough to know he was welcome in the front.
We know Zodiac got out and wiped down the exterior of Paul’s driver side door at the scene, and why would he do that? Well the only thing I have been able to come up with is that when Zodiac haled paul and Paul stopped, Zodiac walked up to Paul’s cab and, while leaning into the open window of his drivers side door, placed his hands on the section where the window was wound completely down, and initially spoke to Paul that way asking could he take him to Presidio Hgts before walking around the cab to get in the other side. I cant think how else Z would have touched Paul’s drivers door on it’s exterior and needed to wipe it down before leaving the scene.

If they were Zodiac’s, why would he not wear them and save himself the trouble of wiping the inside, and outside, of the cab down?

Depending on how thick the gloves are, wielding a gun and pulling the trigger with gloves on can be difficult. Perhaps Zodiac removed his gloves to shoot Paul, then in the adrenaline rush that followed the murder (an adrenaline rush that may have been all the more pronounced if you go by the notion that Paul’s murder was not premeditated), he forgot to put them on again. People can do funny things under pressure.

If they were Zodiac’s, why would he not wear them and save himself the trouble of wiping the inside, and outside, of the cab down?

Depending on how thick the gloves are, wielding a gun and pulling the trigger with gloves on can be difficult. Perhaps Zodiac removed his gloves to shoot Paul, then in the adrenaline rush that followed the murder (an adrenaline rush that may have been all the more pronounced if you go by the notion that Paul’s murder was not premeditated), he forgot to put them on again. People can do funny things under pressure.

I see what your saying Nach, but the evidence doesn’t seem to support the notion that Zodiac wore gloves up until the point just prior to shooting Paul. After he has shot Paul, he was seen wiping down the dash area, the doors both inside and out etc which, had he worn the gloves while inside the cab or while entering it, would have no cause to wipe down the interior dash, nor, especially, the exterior doors. The fact he wiped down the exterior of the doors, both his own side (which we can assume he would have had to touch to open his door to get in) but also Paul drivers door. He must have been conscious of touching the exterior side at some point and it must have been without gloved because he seemed to take time and increase his risk of capture by staying at the scene to try to wipe away evidence.

Okay, let me try this on for size: Suppose Z knew Stine, perhaps as a fellow student at SFSU, and knew he drove a cab. Perhaps Stine innocently suggested to Z, "If you’re downtown and need a cab, hail me–I could use the money. You can recognize my cab because it’s got a dented side."
One night, Z decides to "do his thing", and conceals a 9mm on his person. Via car or public transportation, he heads downtown, happens to see Stine’s cab, and flags him down. The rest of the dots are easily connected.

Zodiac would have been very lucky.

paul’s brother, joe owned a gas station in modesto not far from the route kathlene johns would take on highway 132. why was zodiac in modesto? did he know paul’s brother? not to mention paul……….just an idea……hey this is Calman im back with a few new zodiac ideas with a partner who likes to blow holes in my theory therefore making them even more compelling