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Poll for the Board- Zodiac Facts

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joku
 joku
(@joku)
Posts: 205
Estimable Member
 

1. Who is the Zodiac (your favorite/most likely suspect)?
My "favourite suspect" is really not any of the popular ones. I wouldn’t be too uncomfortable to guess that Zodiac either was never questioned by law enforcement, or was ruled out due to handwriting or prints. This ruling out may have happened before the prints lifted from Stine’s cab – as there were no computer databases back then I doubt that there were too many cross-checks years later on persons of interest who had already been ruled out years ago in a different jurisdiction. And even if there were checks, there still exists a possibility that we do not have Zodiac’s print. As for handwriting, in my opinion it is never a fool-proof way to rule out anyone. So, my favourite suspect is "an unknown guy out there", closely followed by some individuals I’ve found through my own research.

2. Did Zodiac kill Cheri Jo Bates?
It is possible. I am confident he did write the Bates letters at least.

3. Did Zodiac send the Albany letters?
I can’t say.

4. Is Donna Lass a Zodiac victim?
Also possible.

5. Was that really the Zodiac driving Kathleen Johns around?
Would say that I lean more towards "yes". She had a hysteric reaction upon seeing the a drawing which would suggest that it did resemble her abductor’s features significantly. If it would be just about having glasses or crew cut I doubt she would have reacted as strongly. She also reported his speech as monotone, although I do not know if this detail, originally from dispatcher Nancy, had been relayed in the papers before.

6. Can the 340 cipher be solved or is it just gibberish?
I am inclined to think it is gibberish.

 
Posted : January 6, 2018 3:04 am
CuriousCat
(@curiouscat)
Posts: 1328
Noble Member
 

I can only imagine what it does to those of you who have been following it 20-30 years.

Agreed. This case is the mother of all rabbit holes.

 
Posted : January 6, 2018 6:07 am
(@themist)
Posts: 162
Estimable Member
 

In a case like Z, we can only assign probabilities to questions like this

1. Who is the Zodiac (your favorite/most likely suspect)?

I think it is most likely to be someone who is completely unknown. Of the identified suspects, I give the highest probability to TK, and second highest to a Team Zodiac.

2. Did Zodiac kill Cheri Jo Bates?

Low probability. I wouldn’t be surprised if the CJB letters and case were a significant influence on Z.

3. Did Zodiac send the Albany letters?

Low probability. I think handwriting comparison is highly unreliable and do not assign it much weight. I am slightly more interested in content analysis. However, since the Z letters are all public, even content analysis fails. If some letters or other communications have been held back by LE, they could be used to do useful content analysis and comparison with subsequent letters.

4. Is Donna Lass a Zodiac victim?

Probably not

5. Was that really the Zodiac driving Kathleen Johns around?

Probably not

6. Can the 340 cipher be solved or is it just gibberish?

The unsolved Z puzzles are special cases. Yes, they are communications, but they are probably not ciphers in the traditional sense of the term. Ciphers are intended to communicate information to a recipient. They have a clear solution and a systematic method. I think the 340 is more of a game or puzzle than a traditional cipher. Yes, it is probably solvable, but it probably isn’t a cipher in the strict sense of the term.

 
Posted : January 6, 2018 6:02 pm
 Boo!
(@boo)
Posts: 62
Trusted Member
 

1. Who is the Zodiac (your favorite/most likely suspect)?

No idea. I don’t think it’s any of the well known suspects I will say that much.

2. Did Zodiac kill Cheri Jo Bates?

Possibly based on the desktop poem seemingly matching Zodiacs handwriting. Although there’s no saying that the author and CJB’s murderer are one and the same.

3. Did Zodiac send the Albany letters?

I don’t think so.

4. Is Donna Lass a Zodiac victim?

Don’t know.

5. Was that really the Zodiac driving Kathleen Johns around?

Quite possible but who knows.

6. Can the 340 cipher be solved or is it just gibberish?

It could be gibberish but to me that wouldn’t fit Zodiacs thinking. I do think it’s different in construction to the 408 though. Possibly being a Caesar or Vigenere cipher with maybe some nulls thrown in too. I also think the ‘My name is’ code might relate to a possible keyword required to solve it.

 
Posted : January 6, 2018 9:18 pm
(@druzer)
Posts: 229
Estimable Member
 

I don’t believe the Zodiac’s real name has ever been mentioned as a suspect, but if it has, it may be Jim Phillips or Buzz Gordon (but I agree with many other posters that no serious evidence points to anyone that has been discussed). The rest of the poll questions are as tough as they come! Bates, Lass, Johns are probably all yeses for me, but I feel awfully lonely saying so. I would also add the Sacramento double homicide and letter in 86, and the Eureka letter in 90, but I sure wouldn’t want to try to defend any of those claims with evidence. I think the 340 is gibberish, but I do still stare at it for embarrassingly long periods of time and then quickly minimize it when someone enters the room. Alright, I’ve shared too much. Cheers

 
Posted : January 6, 2018 11:51 pm
Tahoe27
(@tahoe27)
Posts: 5315
Member Moderator
 

…The Lawrence Kane connection made it a little interesting but I dont think he is the Zodiac.

I think the Kathleen Johns story is completely fabricated in an effort to collect insurance money, and she just pointed to the picture on the wall to make her story sound more convincing. Little did she know how big of a story she was inserting herself into.

It can be really hard to state anything definitively about this case though. It gives me headaches and I have only really been in it for a year or so…I can only imagine what it does to those of you who have been following it 20-30 years.

To me, coming into Kane sort of came in a backwards way. Find someone who might have harassed Donna, then see if he is fit to be Zodiac. Hey, if one believes she is a victim of Zodiac, then that is what you would do and I don’t think LE should ignore such things. I’m sure Kane was considered aside of Zodiac–at least I would hope so. Same with Sullivan.

If everyone thought the same way, new developments would never arise. ;) Difference of opinion and questioning…always questioning, it’s a good thing, imo.


…they may be dealing with one or more ersatz Zodiacs–other psychotics eager to get into the act, or perhaps even other murderers eager to lay their crimes at the real Zodiac’s doorstep. L.A. Times, 1969

 
Posted : January 7, 2018 1:43 am
(@texas21)
Posts: 53
Trusted Member
 

1. Who is the Zodiac (your favorite/most likely suspect)?

Someone with strong connections to Vallejo who worked in San Francisco. (Don’t have a favorite individual).

2. Did Zodiac kill Cheri Jo Bates?

No. The one time Zodiac departed from using the postage stamps which appear in his most likely letters was to send an Apollo Moon Mission stamp which had the inscription "In the beginning.." The date of the mission commemorated by the stamp was the morning immediately following the Farraday-Jensen murders. I think his use of the stamp was to imply he had power over all things and described their murders as his first.

3. Did Zodiac send the Albany letters? Not sure, but not likely.

4. Is Donna Lass a Zodiac victim?

No. It doesn’t seem to fit with the other murders.

5. Was that really the Zodiac driving Kathleen Johns around?

Could very well have been. His demeanor at Lake Berryessa suggests someone who was playing out a fantasy. He might simply have lost his nerve.

6. Can the 340 cipher be solved or is it just gibberish?

I don’t believe it was a very sophisticated cipher and I think it includes gibberish. I don’t see how he would have progressed from his initial cipher into anything very sophisticated.

 
Posted : January 7, 2018 1:58 am
(@twogunsid)
Posts: 13
Active Member
 

1. Unsub
2. No
3. No
4. No
5. No
6. The best minds say that there is a pattern that would lead them to believe there is a message, so, yes. But I wouldn’t be surprised if it is gibberish.

 
Posted : January 7, 2018 8:27 pm
Pettibon Junction
(@pettibon-junction)
Posts: 258
Reputable Member
 

1. Who is the Zodiac (your favorite/most likely suspect)?
Either Ross Sullivan or Larry J. Lowe. I go back and forth.

2. Did Zodiac kill Cheri Jo Bates?
Ross Sullivan probably did. Doesn’t necessarily mean he was the Zodiac.

3. Did Zodiac send the Albany letters?
No.

4. Is Donna Lass a Zodiac victim?
No.

5. Was that really the Zodiac driving Kathleen Johns around?
Probably not.

6. Can the 340 cipher be solved or is it just gibberish?
It can be solved, but there’s probably nothing to be gained from doing so. I put little to no weight in the ciphers.

"There are such devils."
-The Pledge

 
Posted : January 24, 2018 11:13 pm
CuriousCat
(@curiouscat)
Posts: 1328
Noble Member
 

Find someone who might have harassed Donna, then see if he is fit to be Zodiac.

Seemed to be a lot of men around her who could be suspected. Did they ever check out the "nutjob across the street" she mentioned? This "Robbie" guy seems to bear more investigation. I know very little about him and have had a hard time finding anything.

 
Posted : January 24, 2018 11:54 pm
(@nick-no-nora)
Posts: 541
Honorable Member
 

1. Who is the Zodiac (your favorite/most likely suspect)?
Ross Sullivan. More and more. Ultimately, the librarians suspected him in the Bates murder. He likely knew the victim, at least from afar. He was at least asked to supply an alibi, it seems. Which implies he was mentioned in her diary, as that seemed to be the standard. Then three years later, a guy who looks a lot like him goes on a murder spree in an area fairly close to where he lives. And eventually the state’s top handwriting connects the murders (at least the letters in the cases). And they found a poem with matching handwriting inside his workplace. Oh, and he studied codes. And wore military clothing. That’s a lot of meaningful coincidence to swallow.

2. Did Zodiac kill Cheri Jo Bates?
Probably. At minimum he wrote the letters and the poem.

3. Did Zodiac send the Albany letters?
A few years back, based on having been a journalist, I looked at the style and grammar and such from an AP Style perspective, to see if Z had been following the rules of AP Style. In the end, I thought it was inconclusive about whether or not Z had a journalism background – he violated some rules, but had a noticeable and curious adherence to them at times. On the bomb diagram, for instance, he writes "July, Aug. Sept., Oct." which is exactly how a journalist would do it – write out July, abbreviate the others. The one letter I ruled out as being from a journalist was the Albany letter -there are all sorts of AP Style violations. So I’ve always thought no. But the handwriting expert on the recent show has made me reconsider.

4. Is Donna Lass a Zodiac victim?
My feeling is no.

5. Was that really the Zodiac driving Kathleen Johns around?
Inconclusive. But I’m more likely to think so than others.

6. Can the 340 cipher be solved or is it just gibberish?
Yes. The FBI code team thinks there’s a message in there. I’m sure they have measure the linguistic entropy correctly.

 
Posted : January 28, 2018 12:43 pm
ZteveMcQueen
(@ztevemcqueen)
Posts: 84
Trusted Member
 

3. Did Zodiac send the Albany letters?
A few years back, based on having been a journalist, I looked at the style and grammar and such from an AP Style perspective, to see if Z had been following the rules of AP Style. In the end, I thought it was inconclusive about whether or not Z had a journalism background – he violated some rules, but had a noticeable and curious adherence to them at times. On the bomb diagram, for instance, he writes "July, Aug. Sept., Oct." which is exactly how a journalist would do it – write out July, abbreviate the others. The one letter I ruled out as being from a journalist was the Albany letter -there are all sorts of AP Style violations.

Checking the letters against AP style is brilliant. Those rules become second nature and a person may not realize they’re doing giving away their background by followinging them.

If Z wasn’t following AP style, what other style might be be following instead of or in addition to? For example, I learned AP in college and later encountered Chicago manual of style when I published a book. Z might have learned his style from publishing books, scientific papers, military reports, military news, etc.

Zodiac was a screwup. He left behind five breathing victims, two survivors, bootprints, possibly fingerprints and palmprints, tiretracks, eyewitnesses, and earwitnesses. If the APB had gone out for a WMA he would have been locked up in ’69.

 
Posted : May 27, 2018 6:20 am
(@xcaliber)
Posts: 653
Honorable Member
 

What other rules of journalism did Z adhere to?

 
Posted : May 27, 2018 6:30 am
(@tomvoigt)
Posts: 1352
Noble Member
 

If Zodiac wrote the Riverside confession, which I have always believed he did, he started many sentences with "But"…which is a major no-no. Zodiac also did, more than a few times.

As far as suspects are concerned, Gaikowski used to do that all the time as a writer, as well as misspell basic words. So there’s a journalism connection albeit with curious contradictions.

 
Posted : May 27, 2018 6:54 am
ZteveMcQueen
(@ztevemcqueen)
Posts: 84
Trusted Member
 

If Zodiac wrote the Riverside confession, which I have always believed he did, he started many sentences with "But"…which is a major no-no. Zodiac also did, more than a few times.

As far as suspects are concerned, Gaikowski used to do that all the time as a writer, as well as misspell basic words. So there’s a journalism connection albeit with curious contradictions.

True. I learned the rule against beginning a sentence with But or And in high school. I used to follow it religiously. But then I got tired of it. :-) One advantage of breaking the rule is that you can break up long sentences into shorter ones.

Zodiac was a screwup. He left behind five breathing victims, two survivors, bootprints, possibly fingerprints and palmprints, tiretracks, eyewitnesses, and earwitnesses. If the APB had gone out for a WMA he would have been locked up in ’69.

 
Posted : May 28, 2018 1:30 am
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