Swiss knife, similar..can break and Z made 4 cuts over the throat of CJB – one did not hit her throut but her face, partially. If it broke, Z took the blade afterwards. But he forgot the watch. Has it been two flashlights searching for stuff after the murder? If so, who else was there? That person must know more than he/she wants to, I guess (letter writer?). Silent.

What actually is strange that a hunting knife was found but ruled out. Not too many knifes lying around in that area, are there? Any DNA testing on it? Z could have wiped the blade shortly before throwing it away. The watch was his, that is for sure (10 ft.). Smudge on it = DNA = Genetic genealogy. Only weeks until Z will be identified, imo.

QT

I agree QT, That knife found at the crime scene should have been taken into evidence! Where did you read about this hunting knife? I have not heard about this before you posted about it.
For sure DNA should be checked on the watch.

Swiss knife, similar..can break and Z made 4 cuts over the throat of CJB – one did not hit her throut but her face, partially. If it broke, Z took the blade afterwards. But he forgot the watch. Has it been two flashlights searching for stuff after the murder? If so, who else was there? That person must know more than he/she wants to, I guess (letter writer?). Silent.

What actually is strange that a hunting knife was found but ruled out. Not too many knifes lying around in that area, are there? Any DNA testing on it? Z could have wiped the blade shortly before throwing it away. The watch was his, that is for sure (10 ft.). Smudge on it = DNA = Genetic genealogy. Only weeks until Z will be identified, imo.

QT

I agree QT, That knife found at the crime scene should have been taken into evidence! Where did you read about this hunting knife? I have not heard about this before you posted about it.
For sure DNA should be checked on the watch.

It was a straight bladed, meaning non-folding, hunting knife. It was checked for blood but was negative. They said the amount of rust on it showed it had to have been there much longer than when the attack happened. There were about half dozen more knives found in the area that were checked out.

Thanks CC, That is amazing information !

Maybe CJB wasn’t seen because she didn’t want to be seen. I’m considering a liaison with a male other than her fiance (Bob Barnett?) that she would obviously want to keep hidden. Strange she went out of her way to stay invisible that night. In any case, someone was likely with her and knows something.

I don’t think she was trying to hide, she wouldn’t have invited her friend to join her if she was hiding. Most students who are in the library are there to study, they don’t often look up to see who just walked in. They could have been reading and didn’t pay attention to who was there.

She checked books out on that evening , she was there and obviously no one noticed. ( The proof is in the pudding , so to speak)

There’s the possibility that other students didn’t want to get involved in a homicide case.

Why did no librarian remember her if she checked out books? Was there a self check out?

A librarian does remember probably seeing her that night, between 6-6:30, checking out books. Those found on her car seat had been checked out. Bates was not seen in the library after 6:30.

No, none of her friends saw her. The library at RCC was basically just a big room, impossible to go unnoticed. She disappeared quickly on purpose. Why?

I suppose it’s possible the Detectives know a lot more about her movements at RCC that night than they are willing to
release to the public, or maybe the Detectives are just as confused and perplexed as the rest of us.

She was spotted by the Hispanic male in the library writing in her note book. That tells me that she checked her books out and was using them while in the library for her assignment. Just because she was not noticed by the other students there , doesn’t mean she wasn’t inside studying. It took time for her to try and get her car started. Then the killer to pretend to try and fix it. I think he purposely stalled for time, to make sure everyone had left the area so he would not have any witnesses. He walked her towards the alley way ,which was really a long drive way between the two vacant homes. A witness heard a loud scream about 10:30 pm. I can see the killer who I do believe was Zodiac, making sure the time was 10:30 to match the date of 10/30/66. Time and dates were important to Zodiac. Cheri Jo ate some stew before leaving her home at about 5:30 to 5:45 Pm, it is a short drive from her home to RCC, leaving 30 min early seemed not to fit. Closer to 6pm seems more likely.

I have stumbled on to something that may have a connection to the military watch found at her crime. Two yrs before Cheri Jo’s murder , there was a couple shot and killed in San Diego at Ocean Beach on Feb 5th 1964. That killer took the young mans watch, which was also a Timex military watch. Their names were John and Joyce Swindle, John had done some painting on the day of the murder for their land lady. He had paint spatter on that watch, the watch found at Cheri Jo’s crime scene also had some paint spatter. I am sure that if it was Johnny Swindle’s watch, the killer would have washed the paint off of that watch in that two yrs, but maybe missed some very tiny spatter? I know that I did read the paint found on that watch was house paint.

Someone who very well could have been Zodiac, sent a postcard with a cipher to the VTH on Sept. 25th 1990. Showing what may have been San Diego’s Ocean Beach? The Stamp was of Marianne Moore, a poet who died on Feb 5th 1972. Could Zodiac have picked that stamp as a clue to the Swindle’s murders? If I am correct and the watch found at Cheri Jo’s crime scene was Johnny Swindle’s , that connects both of those crimes to who I believe was Zodiac.

I may have posted this on another thread, but not everyone reads every thread, so I added it here because this could be huge news! Perhaps a cold case Det from either of those cases reads this message board , will look into it?

That watch detail is an interesting observation! I’d like to know more about that.

"She was spotted by the Hispanic male in the library writing in her note book. That tells me that she checked her books out and was using them while in the library for her assignment. Just because she was not noticed by the other students there , doesn’t mean she wasn’t inside studying."

The Inside Detective magazine article shares that 4 young men said they had seen her near her car that night (it’s frustratingly not stated whether around 6pm or 10pm for that). A male librarian "thought he saw" her. And a "young Mexican-American student" who said he knew Cheri Jo had seen her in the library although the statement is confusing. He said he saw her at 5:30 waiting for the Library to open at 6 but then also says he saw her writing with a blue ball point pen in her notebook. Was that before the library opened or after at a desk? What time is he talking about? It’s hard to grip his timeline from the way the article is written besides from the fact that that reporting here has always come across to me as a bit prejudiced because why did they feel the need to report on his heritage and not just say a student who knew her saw her before the library opened? At any rate the article states other students who claimed to know her were in the library at 6:30-6:40 and did not see her there.

I agree there is a possibility that she might not have noticed but I have a hard time buying into it. Here’s why:

I recently read through the entire RCC archive of the relevant years surrounding CJB’s death and RCC was in the process of building a new library because the one they had at that time was overcrowded. There were few places to study. As early as ’64 they were making makeshift study rooms in other buildings because seating area was limited and in ’66 they opened the annex as a run off place (which was not officially open that night). I find it very hard to believe that students who arrived just as the library opened did not notice her in that small library. Library usage reportedly went down at night but when there are few people then you notice the one person who comes in and if it’s overcrowded she’s sitting in a group of people because there is nowhere else to sit and is sure to be noticed. People go to those types of places in college often specifically because they are lonely or hoping to meet a romantic interest, otherwise they would study in their room. This wasn’t just a normal hustle and bustle Tuesday run in during a busy day to grab a book sort of thing. I could buy no one noticed her on a day like that. This was an off day around a holiday. A guy or a lonely guy spending a Sunday night at the library instead of studying at home is going to take a moment to notice a beautiful girl, a lonely girl would notice a rival, and CJB was certainly notice worthy in general according to the people around her, likely especially because she had clearly taken time to look nice from the reports of her outfit. 5 guys alone, according to the article, recognized her in the short window where she was at her car and waiting for the library to open. She and her car were well known in general. But then somehow she wasn’t noticed at all during a 3 hour window (approx. 6:30-9:30) in that tiny library, looking nice, around a holiday, and even though friends of hers came in at 6:30? That’s hard for me to believe.

Then there are the librarians themselves and the library policy. The head librarian Bach took meticulous counts of library books checked out and usage for day vs. nights. There had to be a system which noted and counted books checked out – particularly at night. Bach himself wrote two articles for school publications trying to improve night usage (probably because of the general overcrowding issues). The librarian who checked CJB out must have had to make notation of it. Librarians need to be able to pay attention to detail. This person didn’t have recollection of what was surely either amongst the first or last books checked out for a holiday weekend night even though they had to make notation of it? And a male wouldn’t notice CJB, a former cheerleader and nomination for Jr. Princess in HS, athletic, fashion forward often making her own clothes, and "always had a smile for everyone"? Maybe they were studying themselves or distracted or something but it’s another hard thing to swallow.

I don’t know. Maybe she really wasn’t noticed. Maybe it’s a simple as she just went to some random building on campus to study and that’s why no one saw her. But then how did the killer track her movements to know he could disable her vehicle without being discovered? How did the killer know the campus layout, patterns of activity on the weekends, which VW was hers, how to disable a VW, and that particular lesser used area of campus at night? She checked out books and I can’t get the idea out of my head that the librarian is suspicious in this.

I find it much harder to believe that she wanted one of her friends to join her for a quick run into the library to get the books and leave. It was said she asked her friend to go with her to get the books and "study". Hard to believe that she left right away with the books shortly after 6 pm, to find that her car would not start and sat there for a few hours? It was a Sunday night , I doubt the library was crowded and was used as a place to meet up. The students who take the time to go there to study , I would think actually were doing just that , looking down at their books and studying. The scream that was heard at about 10:30 pm was more than likely Cheri Jo’s scream. That leaves at least a 4 hour gap, if she in fact left the library right away.

It is truly harder for me to believe she spent that much time with the killer.
The girl who walked past the man standing near the crime scene, could very well have been the killer waiting for Cheri Jo come out from the library and try to start the car.

Do we know about what time that was? Some think the killer was in the library watching her? If that were true and he was Zodiac, he should have been noticed because Zodiac was older than the students by about 10 yrs. The idea that one or two students saw her but were afraid to say anything, is plausible. Those were the times when police were called blue pigs and were not liked by many people. There were people who feared the police.

It sounded to me that when the Hispanic male student who saw her writing in her note book , saw her in the library. The mention of him looking Hispanic was probably a question that was asked by the police ,asking what did the witness look like? It was for description purposes, to help the police locate that witness.

I find it much harder to believe that she wanted one of her friends to join her for a quick run into the library to get the books and leave. It was said she asked her friend to go with her to get the books and "study".

Agreed. Libraries have books, like encyclopedias, dictionaries etc., that you can’t check out, you have to use them at the library. Needing to use those type of books would mean she stayed at the Library to study.

Thank you!