Paul_Averly, I wonder if we could ask Tarbox

– if the sketch of the LA rapist is a better match?
– if he can remember anything regarding his name, e.g. if his first name was Paul? Or regarding the last name, if it was matching a my-name-is cipher (like Cavanaugh or similar?
– if the person had akne scars in his face and if so, how distinctively and or how big they were, what was the shape of such scar?
– if he was rather shabbily dressed or rather neatly clothed with e.g. military shoes?
– if the guy had distinctive body features, such as a widows peak? And if he had worn glasses?
– if there was any distinctive (body) language such as limbing or a slow speed of speech?

Let’s face it..if Z had met Tarbox, then Tarbox is one of only few living witnesses of Z. Without bothering him, if we got the chance to ask him imo we should do..can you organise such a request?

QT

Paul_Averly, I wonder if we could ask Tarbox

– if the sketch of the LA rapist is a better match?
– if he can remember anything regarding his name, e.g. if his first name was Paul? Or regarding the last name, if it was matching a my-name-is cipher (like Cavanaugh or similar?
– if the person had akne scars in his face and if so, how distinctively and or how big they were, what was the shape of such scar?
– if he was rather shabbily dressed or rather neatly clothed with e.g. military shoes?
– if the guy had distinctive body features, such as a widows peak? And if he had worn glasses?
– if there was any distinctive (body) language such as limbing or a slow speed of speech?

Let’s face it..if Z had met Tarbox, then Tarbox is one of only few living witnesses of Z. Without bothering him, if we got the chance to ask him imo we should do..can you organise such a request?

QT

Most definitely agree and if he won’t or can’t for some good reason, why couldn’t he at least tell Paul Averly how many letters were in his first and last name? It sounds from reading here that Mr. Tarbox has the man’s full name in his memory and written records.

I can’t help but wonder if those Merchant Marine I.D. cards could have been faked at that time. We hear so much today about identify theft and in the Los Angeles area, fake i.d. has been very problematic for years due to illegal immigration so I wonder about the possibility of the card Tarbox was shown being a fake.

Paul_Averly, I wonder if we could ask Tarbox

– if the sketch of the LA rapist is a better match?
– if he can remember anything regarding his name, e.g. if his first name was Paul? Or regarding the last name, if it was matching a my-name-is cipher (like Cavanaugh or similar?
– if the person had akne scars in his face and if so, how distinctively and or how big they were, what was the shape of such scar?
– if he was rather shabbily dressed or rather neatly clothed with e.g. military shoes?
– if the guy had distinctive body features, such as a widows peak? And if he had worn glasses?
– if there was any distinctive (body) language such as limbing or a slow speed of speech?

Let’s face it..if Z had met Tarbox, then Tarbox is one of only few living witnesses of Z. Without bothering him, if we got the chance to ask him imo we should do..can you organise such a request?

QT

Most definitely agree and if he won’t or can’t for some good reason, why couldn’t he at least tell Paul Averly how many letters were in his first and last name? It sounds from reading here that Mr. Tarbox has the man’s full name in his memory and written records.

I can’t help but wonder if those Merchant Marine I.D. cards could have been faked at that time. We hear so much today about identify theft and in the Los Angeles area, fake i.d. has been very problematic for years due to illegal immigration so I wonder about the possibility of the card Tarbox was shown being a fake.

If bets were being taken, I’d bet the id shown Tarbox WAS FAKED by the very manipulative, cagey Zodiac who is not any of the named poi’s to date.

Why can’t Tarbox at least say whether or not the man he describes has been publicly named as a poi?

Actually, I think Tarbox should ethically be able to answer all of the above questions and thankfully he is still living and in good health and mentally sharp!

Well, so far and if still alive I don’t see any reason why an ID should have been faked. Z liked publicity, was sure enough that Tarbox wouldn’t ‘arrest’ him. Possibly seeked help from him or at least knew that he’d leave Tarbox immediately after having spoken to him. He might even have intended to kill Tarbox, just in case, however Tarbox for sure assured Z that he would not be allowed to talk about his confession. So I think it is speculation to assume that the ID was faked, at least as long as that person is still alive or his ID had not been stolen. This, however, is rather unlikely as there might have been a picture on the ID? Nevertheless..if Tarbox doesn’t know about the name anymore, he still would be helpful (and therefore should be asked) by answering those questions.

QT

Thanks for posting this most informative article.

I find it most interesting that Mr. Tarbox was the former owner or part-owner in a bar/nightclub and think maybe the seaman knew that and could have been why he was chosen.

It would be interesting to know if Tarbox ever actually worked IN the establishment, perhaps as a bartender where he could have served this man. Or, he could have been there greeting customers and seating them and met him that way. If he’d become acquainted with this seaman and the subject of UC Berkeley had arisen, that would have been another thing the two had in common and the M.M. remembered that when he decided to seek consultation out of what sounds like terrific remorse/guilt.

I met my poi in late spring or early summer of 1970 and felt exactly as Tarbox did locked in his office when my poi appeared in what I now know to be the Zodiac costume while I was locked in his apt. and we were preparing to go out for dinner after having spent the afternoon at the beach. I thought he was in his bedroom changing his clothes and I was sitting on the floor in the living area listening to LP’S on the stereo.

I can now even remember Karen Carpenter’s album was playing "Rainy Days and Monday’s Always Get Me Down" when my boyfriend came loping out in what I now know to be the Zodiac disguise! I still get the panicky feeling when I remember the details of that and cannot allow myself to dwell on them for very long without getting heart palpitations.

Do the Merchant Marine Identification cards have a photo on them? If not, then it would be easier for someone to pass themself off as one but seems it would be impossible otherwise.

Thanks for posting this most informative article.

I find it most interesting that Mr. Tarbox was the former owner or part-owner in a bar/nightclub and think maybe the seaman knew that and could have been why he was chosen.

It would be interesting to know if Tarbox ever actually worked IN the establishment, perhaps as a bartender where he could have served this man. Or, he could have been there greeting customers and seating them and met him that way. If he’d become acquainted with this seaman and the subject of UC Berkeley had arisen, that would have been another thing the two had in common and the M.M. remembered that when he decided to seek consultation out of what sounds like terrific remorse/guilt.

I met my poi in late spring or early summer of 1970 and felt exactly as Tarbox did locked in his office when my poi appeared in what I now know to be the Zodiac costume while I was locked in his apt. and we were preparing to go out for dinner after having spent the afternoon at the beach. I thought he was in his bedroom changing his clothes and I was sitting on the floor in the living area listening to LP’S on the stereo.

I can now even remember Karen Carpenter’s album was playing "Rainy Days and Monday’s Always Get Me Down" when my boyfriend came loping out in what I now know to be the Zodiac disguise! I still get the panicky feeling when I remember the details of that and cannot allow myself to dwell on them for very long without getting heart palpitations.

Do the Merchant Marine Identification cards have a photo on them? If not, then it would be easier for someone to pass themself off as one but seems it would be impossible otherwise.

Have you started a thread for your suspect? If you have, could you please post a link?

If not, why not do that and tell us some more about him?

Foreigner, no I haven’t started a thread for my poi and don’t have plans to do so. There are many reasons and I’m sorry I can’t adequately explain the situation simply and concisely. It is a very, very long story much like Sandy Betts’ says hers is and would take hours to tell.

The main reason I haven’t is because he is alive and thankfully so. This man is a very, very close friend and we almost married. Our relationship has gone on since 1970 so you can imagine the many, many things I could relate. Most of them are wonderful happy memories…more than many long-time married couples have. We never lived together but were very good friends and one of the most wonderful boyfriends anyone could hope for. He is a well-educated person with a variety of interests. He studied classical piano and was athletic, loved to drive his car and motorcycle, was a good swimmer and loved to sail and still would except for age and the afflications that often accompany it. It breaks my heart to have any negative thoughts about him whatsoever. He gave me a wonderful dog that lived to be seventeen and a half years old and flew from the S.F. bay area to southern CA to accompany me to the vet when the time came to have to put "our" dog to sleep.

You hopefully will appreciate, as I can, how awful it would be to think of someone you love as being capable of involvement in any crime, let alone something like murder! I will tell you he fits many of the descriptions and his handwriting is very similar to many examples of those posted. He is now 75 years old so he was 31 yrs. old when I met him. His weight has not fluctuated greatly over the years but with age has gained approx. 40 lbs. more than what he was years ago or maybe even more. His birthday is in December and he is a Sagittarian.

I know his fingerprints are on file as he had a security clearance and the FBI interviewed the neighbors in his home town years ago in connection with his employment. He has also been arrested for numerous dui’s (I did not know he had a drinking problem until well into our relationship and this is one of the main reasons we never married). He has been on probation. These dui’s are the only trouble I know of that he’s ever had and so that is why I really can’t imagine that he could be guilty of anything worse as LE has had every opportunity to investigate him. I actually wondered if he was the man Sandy talks about until I saw a picture she posted of her poi, much to my relief. I would not be one bit surprised though if Sandy has not served this man at one of the establishments where she worked as he is very familiar with bars and restaurants not only in the SF bay area but around the country due to his education and employment. He is quite frugal and used to love happy hours with the free hors-doerves and restaurants that offered good meals at a good price with a nice atmosphere and music. When I saw those earrings she posted, I wondered if they could have been mine as I had a pair of wide gold hoops that looked quite similar that somehow got lost in my friend’s apt. and that he never could find when I told him they must have gotten lost and to please look for them!

From what he’s told me since he was hospitalized, it sounds like maybe he has been investigated which makes me wonder if the doctor or someone else at the hospital was serious and could have reported him. Otoh, my friend could have been medicated when he told me long distance on the phone that the cops had been to see and fingerprint him the night before. I asked why and he said there were a lot of missing people and he looked like a lot of the suspects and that the cops wanted to close the cases and he was afraid they were trying to pin the cases on him! This was around the time I started reading on the old site so you can imagine my panic at the thought there just may be something to my suspicions based on these long forgotten flashbacks! Then I also thought the remarks could have been due to medication or dreams or something he’d seen on tv in programs he watches such as "Criminal Minds." I ask myself why I have any suspicion or wonder "what if or could it be or what are the odds" mainly because of the dr’s. remark, seeing the movie and reading all about the case which has sparked many long forgotten memories of innocent conversations and incidents which are nothing but circumstantial things that would make sense ONLY if he were to be named by LE as a poi and then these things I remember would all make sense. At the time they happened, I’d just think things like "what a jerk" or almost say "what the h..ll?" when he came out in that costume or one that looked identical. The only difference, IIRC, was that the cross did not extend beyond the circumference of the circle on the bib. He told me he made it using whiteout, as best I can remember and used either a glass or a compass to make the circle. Most of these details I am absolutely positive about and when I’m not, I try to emphasize the fact that I’m not positive but am pretty sure about my recollections.

Just an fyi, most of my friends and acquaintances have remarked over the years that they am amazed at my memory for details. My mother used to ask how on earth I could remember various details about people who visited us when I was a child, etc. Luckily, my memory is good for certain things, especially people and events that made an impression (good and otherwise). Occasionally, things come to mind that I think I have dreamed about and then can remember the dreams from years earlier I allow myself to think back! Rarely, I’ll wonder if some memories are false due to reading or hearing about something or seeing something in the media but I always try to mention that I’m not sure when that happens.

He worked in executive positions at major corporations. He has an MBA from UC Berkeley and is originally from the mid-west. He is very well-spoken and has a good sense of humor once you get to know this very private man who is an only child and never married. I have known him and his parents as very well- respected people in their community and professions. I know he had a close friend from childhood who is a law professor and this man’s father was a judge in the Court of Appeals or similar so I really think that some of these people would have suspected him if there was anything to it since they would have known him from school days, way before I met him which would have been after the contact described by Mr. Tarbox. In fact, one of his roomates in graduate school became a well-known lawyer in the S.F. bay area.

I am hoping Mr. Tarbox will answer the questions and I keep following this hoping to eliminate my dear friend from any and all suspicion in my own mind as it is terrible to suspect someone you admire of something like this! I tell myself my imagination has just worked overtime thinking about the dr., the movie and spending so much time here. The most suspicious flashbacks though are the costume and incidents where he asked me to lick stamps, envelopes, borrow stamps, mail things for him and write things on envelopes for him. Then, there was the letter he mailed from SF once when we were there for a weekend when he asked me to deposit it in the mailbox for him addressed to the L.A. Times, "rush to editor" and I asked him about that and why no return address and the answer he gave me which I posted about somewhere here on another thread. He said he’d forgotten to pay his bill and didn’t want his paper stopped and knew it would get processed sooner if it went over the editor’s desk. He said they’d know him by the logo or little doodle he had placed on the envelope where you would normally put a return address. I just thought it very odd at the time that he would mail a bill from SF to LA, especially since we were returning the next day or so and the LA Times does not stop a paper until a bill is way overdue and I knew my friend to be very responsible and was surprised that he even would have a late newspaper bill. I am pretty sure I told him all this and even asked just how late it was and he said not to worry about it and that he just felt bad it hadn’t gotten there by the due date.

He did tell me in the last few years when I could ask various questions raised in my mind through reading here without raising his suspicions that he had a friend in school whose family owned the small town newspaper. I’ve also seen his picture in a college yearbook online and see that he worked on the yearbook which I hadn’t known and don’t remember him telling me about when we met in 1970 and spent a lot of time comparing notes about our college courses and experiences among other topics.

I don’t think I’ve posted this before but am almost positive that he may have asked me to print "sorry no cipher" on an envelope like the example we see here as I just thought it was so bizarre and he’d had a dui around that time. I couldn’t believe it when he came out with that as we were joking around about something like what he was going to send his friend for his anniversary present (I thought it was a big wedding anniversary) and he said "nevermind, I’ll explain later." (That was a standard non-answer for many of my questions). I also remember then telling him I thought it was so darn weird and that if I found out he was in trouble and trying to involve me somehow, I’d never forgive him or speak to him again and he just laughed, patted me on my head saying something like he’d never do anything like that.

My friend became a poi in my mind ONLY because of a remark one of his doctors made to me when I was visiting him in the hospital about five years ago. I couldn’t believe my ears and think the dr. was probably "kidding" but will never know. Then I came home, turned on the tv and was channel surfing when the movie "Zodiac" came on. I thought to myself "oh, I remember those crimes" and started watching the movie when I remembered the remark made by the doctor and connected the dots (at least it raised the question in my mind if that is what the dr. was referring to). I saw mention of this or one of the other websites about the case at the end of the movie and immediately went to my computer and started reading there and the rest is history. Were it not for these circumstances, I probably never would have given the Zodiac a thought after these many years and certainly would not have started thinking back and then remembering various innocuous but curious things my poi said and did.

I do remember joking with him about reminding me of Superman and kidding about loving to be his secretary ala. Lois Lane. That might have sparked a conversation about various styles of writing and printing. When he first saw my handwriting, he would comment about how much he loved it and how he was embarrassed about his.

Some of my flashbacks are of his asking me to write things on envelopes for him! Innocent but what I thought odd or juvenile/childish…..the Halloween card was one before completion or something very similar that was in the works. I remember thinking to myself that this guy was just like a kid and thought OMG, if the people he worked for only knew! But then I thought maybe all men were just little boys at heart and would laugh when he’d coyly ask me to address envelopes on occasion. I’d ask as many questions as I could and he’d just answer in a cryptic fashion.

I recall one time after we’d spent some time on the beach going back to his apt. and he came up with a pretty interesting story about some guy he knew in San Francisco. I now think and am pretty sure it was Paul Averly as I asked him about the spelling thinking he said Everly (as in the musical Everly Bros.) I don’t remember the story but the point was he was having some kind of occasion coming up such as a birthday or anniversary and there may have been an invitation to a party involved. Anyway, he was going to send this guy a card (but didn’t have or show me the card) and wanted me to address the envelope for him, saying my writing was so much better than his. I had no reason to think there was anything at all negatively associated with this request other than just thinking it was a little "odd" but then I don’t have any brothers and tend to think I am overly "picky/prudish."

By this time I was madly in love with my boyfriend and was more than happy and flattered to help him. When I’d ask things like where he met these people he’d tell me about, he’d say things like "oh, it was my roomate from College or some guy I knew from (one of the companies where he worked).

I think if you read my comments here, especially those pertaining to Cheri Jo Bates and Donna Lass, you will get a better idea of what memories make me wonder. The most suspicious things about my friend in my mind was his appearance in what I thought was a Halloween costume. When he finally removed the hood after a very frightening period and I was trying to remain calm, show no fear and find out as much as I could about this bizarre behaviour, I asked him why he showed me this and he said he wanted to see what I thought about it. I asked him if he was planning to wear it to a party (wondering why he hadn’t mentioned anything about an upcoming party) and he said something like, "oh, I’ll find one somewhere around here." (He was living in a small downstairs garage apt. right on the beach in Orange County). I then told him I didn’t think that advisable as it was a very scary costume and that someone might get so scared they’d shoot him or call the police, especially since he was a grown man and adults did not make the big production then as some do now.

If you are interested in knowing more, the best thing for you to do would probably read my comments here on this board under the various threads. I have tried to have an open mind and eliminated my poi every time at first when I’d read about someone coming out with a book naming the Z only to find out they were evidentally wrong. When the Highway Patrolman wrote his, I thought he had to be right, since he was LE but was proved wrong again.

All in all I just hope Mr. Tarbox can answer these questions and then I can eliminate my poi for the most part if the initials or numbers of letters in the names don’t match unless of course the id had no picture. I would then question the validity of the id and the name the man gave Tarbox.

Capricorn, Your story is very interesting. The costume your friend had on, was it in two parts and was the hood made from a paper sack painted flat black ? If not, please discribe it from top to bottom.

Your memory must be much better than mine, because I don’t remember the earrings you say I showed ?

I have two suspects , the other one looks very different than the one I posted.

The one I posted would not be in a relationship with any woman, he hates females. The other one was seen with a woman and was very polite to her.

How tall is your friend and about how much did he weigh in 1970 ? Are his eyes hazel and did he smoke ? Did he have a red stone ring that he wore on his left ring finger ? What is his voice like ? I am very interested in your suspect !

I do believe that Robt Tarbox was telling the truth , but I doubt that Zodiac would have given his name to anyone.
He wasn’t stupid just very evil.

Zodiac was more than likely toying with Tarbox and hoped that Tarbox would report his visit , for the attention he fed on.
He may have made himself look different in his picture and in person that day.
I believe that the I-d he showed Tarbox , had his picture alright, but I am pretty sure it had someone elses name on it.
Pretty easy to replace a picture with a sharp knife.

When Tarbox was living in Vallejo, he lived with the Chief Of Police. I think Zodiac could have known that, because I do believe Zodiac did live in Vallejo.

Sandy- doesn’t your suspect have one or two friends that he was frequently with? Maybe Capricorn’s suspect is friends with yours?

Capricorn- I completely understand you not wanting to post any info that could ID your friend, but maybe it would be a good idea to send Sandy a picture of your friend.

In regard to Tarbox’s suspect I have a feeling that if he was Z that he did not provide his real name. I believe Tarbox’s story; however it does not mean that he was actually Z or that he provided his real name.

Sandy- doesn’t your suspect have one or two friends that he was frequently with? Maybe Capricorn’s suspect is friends with yours?

Capricorn- I completely understand you not wanting to post any info that could ID your friend, but maybe it would be a good idea to send Sandy a picture of your friend.

In regard to Tarbox’s suspect I have a feeling that if he was Z that he did not provide his real name. I believe Tarbox’s story; however it does not mean that he was actually Z or that he provided his real name.

Hi Susie, Good idea. I have seen some of my suspects friends and it is true that Capricorn’s boyfriend could be one of them. Zodiac could have made another costume like the one put in my car, pretty easy to put together really. In fact I don’t think that the cross inside the circle extended past the circle on the one I found either and it could have been painted on and not sewn on ? I remember that when I saw the logo, , which I thought was an Asian sign , I knew it couldn’t come off the material.

Sandy, thanks for the questions. I’ll try answering them as best I can.

My boyfriend never live in Vallejo to my knowledge but is very familiar with it and in later years spoke of going boating with friends around there somewhere or not far from it. He described being in a speedboat and losing his glasses when they went flying off and not finding them. He said there was a nice place where they’d go for lunch and I pictured a yacht club or small marina type place as he told me about it. I was kind of surprised about this as he is very much the "loner" type and the few close friends he had that I met when we were dating from 1970-75 have passed away.

One of those friends resembled Arthur Allen from what I can remember and the other one resembled one of the sketches shown alongside pics of Ted Kaczinski that have been posted here recently under that thread. But I could be mistaken if I had pictures of these people to actually compare but I don’t…just of my friend who didn’t like having his taken and would make comments like it had been in every post office in the USA and I thought and probably said "oh I am sure" at the time thinking it was his idea of a joke.

He never wore a ring at least around me. He is about 5’10" tall and weighed about 175 or 180 lbs. at that time. I think he probably now weighs about 230 lbs. He is right handed and wore a wristwatch on his left wrist and usually had the face turned down so as not to scratch it. His shirt sleeve often covered it and it seemed he’d glance at the time easily this way when he was driving or didn’t want to be obviously checking the time.

He was a real pro at the bars but always polite and understated and dressed conservatively and clean-cut. He knew lots of bartenders on a first name basis which concerned me when I was getting to know him thinking he sure must spend a lot of time in these places to know these people by their first name.

His favorite drink was scotch and soda and he’d usually request either a tall glass or a bucket. He impressed me as being quite sophisticated when we began dating and we’d go to a nice place for dinner and sit at the bar while waiting for a table and he’d signal for service…just like something you’d see in a movie! Sometimes he’d order wine coolers or occasionally a beer or something else but it was usually scotch. He liked the wine coolers but not the wine itself so much and mention this only as a possible clue to something you might remember about customers. He’d think nothing of sitting at the bar, asking to see the menu and then for more time after being told a special table he requested was ready. This habit became old pretty quickly once I became aware of it. He also would then refuse to be rushed once seated and would repeat this while studying the menu and ordering more drinks once seated. I would try to discourage this as much as I could but it was very hard. Then I’d encourage him to leave a generous tip if we got good service, reminding him how hard the wait staff worked and depended on tips to supplement their pay and remind him how patient they’d been and accomodating his requests for extra salad dressing (blue cheese or roquefort) often times.

My point is that he is the type of customer that I think would be remembered, perhaps even after only one visit if he’d spent much time at the bar or asking for more time and extra items even though he was usually very low key and polite.

I don’t think I’ve answered all your questions but going to post this much now as my computer is acting strangely, and I’ve had two long replys disappear just as I was going to submit then. I’ll try to describe what I thought was the costume next.

The hood of the costume I saw was made from either a paper grocery bag and painted black with shoe polish or it was made from black felt and he told me he used the sack as a pattern. I just can’t be 100 per cent on this but it was one or the other, I am pretty sure. It had the slits for the eyes and I seem to remember seeing some brown curls at the side, much like Bryan H. described. When he removed it, he was very sweaty and beet red. I just can’t remember if he’d donned a wig or even had made one using a floor mop (think of George Washington or the English judges). His own hair is normally dark brown with reddish glints when the sun would shine at the right time and in the right spots. So yes, the costume was in two parts and he told me he had made it when he finally took the hood off and I got him talking about the entire bizarre episode.

He always wore his hair short and straight and parted on the side and combed over. He was balding on the top. I was surprised to see that his hair was curly after we’d known each other for several months and I saw him for the first time when he needed a haircut. It was quite curly at the ends near the collar once it got past a certain point as were the sideburns. I would tease him and tell him I thought it looked good and would if he let it grow a little longer but he’d always get it cut as he was very conservative.

He had no visible acne scars and pointed out a few very faint ones along his chinline as I remember once when I asked if he’d ever been troubled with it. This was so long ago and he was 31 when we met. He would be quite capable though of applying one with makeup if he wanted to I am quite sure. He just told me he’d had occasional problems when the subject came up as a teenager but of course that was quite long before we met and I could not see any telltale signs that he pointed out without looking very closely and carefully and even then I seem to remember they were very faded.

Now I will post this before it disappears and check your questions to see if there are more to be answered.

Sandy, thanks for the questions. I’ll try answering them as best I can.

My boyfriend never live in Vallejo to my knowledge but is very familiar with it and in later years spoke of going boating with friends around there somewhere or not far from it. He described being in a speedboat and losing his glasses when they went flying off and not finding them. He said there was a nice place where they’d go for lunch and I pictured a yacht club or small marina type place as he told me about it. I was kind of surprised about this as he is very much the "loner" type and the few close friends he had that I met when we were dating from 1970-75 have passed away.

One of those friends resembled Arthur Allen from what I can remember and the other one resembled one of the sketches shown alongside pics of Ted Kaczinski that have been posted here recently under that thread. But I could be mistaken if I had pictures of these people to actually compare but I don’t…just of my friend who didn’t like having his taken and would make comments like it had been in every post office in the USA and I thought and probably said "oh I am sure" at the time thinking it was his idea of a joke.

He never wore a ring at least around me. He is about 5’10" tall and weighed about 175 or 180 lbs. at that time. I think he probably now weighs about 230 lbs. He is right handed and wore a wristwatch on his left wrist and usually had the face turned down so as not to scratch it. His shirt sleevecuff often covered it and it seemed he’d glance at the time easily this way when he was driving or didn’t want to be obviously checking the time.

He was a real pro at the bars but always polite and understated and dressed conservatively and clean-cut. He knew lots of bartenders on a first name basis which concerned me when I was getting to know him thinking he sure must spend a lot of time in these places to know these people by their first name.

His favorite drink was scotch and soda and he’d usually request either a tall glass or a bucket. He impressed me as being quite sophisticated when we began dating and we’d go to a nice place for dinner and sit at the bar while waiting for a table and he’d signal for service…just like something you’d see in a movie! Sometimes he’d order wine coolers or occasionally a beer or something else but it was usually scotch. He liked the wine coolers but not the wine itself so much and mention this only as a possible clue to something you might remember about customers. He’d think nothing of sitting at the bar, asking to see the menu and then for more time after being told a special table he requested was ready. This habit became old pretty quickly once I became aware of it. He also would then refuse to be rushed once seated and would repeat this while studying the menu and ordering more drinks once seated. I would try to discourage this as much as I could but it was very hard. Then I’d encourage him to leave a generous tip if we got good service, reminding him how hard the wait staff worked and depended on tips to supplement their pay and remind him how patient they’d been and accomodating his requests for extra salad dressing (blue cheese or roquefort) often times.

My point is that he is the type of customer that I think would be remembered, perhaps even after only one visit if he’d spent much time at the bar or asking for more time and extra items even though he was usually very low key and polite.

I don’t think I’ve answered all your questions but going to post this much now as my computer is acting strangely, and I’ve had two long replys disappear just as I was going to submit then. I’ll try to describe what I thought was the costume next.

He has brown eyes and a very nice speaking voice. It is deep and strong and he tends to enunciate certain words such as if he were to pronounce "enunciate." His mom had a masters degree in speech and drama as I think I’ve posted so thought this is where he learned to do this. He had no accent although he was from the midwest near Chicago but not Illinois. He has worked there however. I am very familiar with midwest accents as my mother was from there and my friend’s only accent noticeable to me would be when he would pronounce "dollar" as he had a certain twang then. I think there were a couple of other words where this would be slightly noticeable but can’t remember them and it definitely was not what people think of as being the standard Chicago accent.

My post about his smoking disappeared. He did smoke but only when he was drinking for the most part which amounted to a waste of perfectly good cigarettes as they smoldered in the ashtray as much if not more than he actually puffed on them. I guess I thought it was more of an automatic response in that situation rather than any kind of real habit or addiction.

He did tell me he started smoking very early like age twelve with his buddies when they swiped their parents cigarettes. He said he began with Pall Malls or Camels I think that were unfiltered. When I met him, I smoked and would switch brands rather frequently so he’d borrow from me if he ran out when we were out together. Then if we ran out completely and were waiting for a table in a bar, he’d give me change and ask me to go to the cigarette machine to buy several packs but I don’t think he bought them regularly for himself when he was at home or smoked when he was working.

Sandy, I know he used to go to Lyons restaurant and told me he liked their breakfast menu. He said there was a waitress who knew what he liked and he didn’t even have to place his order as she’d just bring his order to him as soon as she saw he was seated. I remember him mentioning a special oatmeal but he really likes omelets and eggs and is very fond of bacon.

He loves liars dice and told me many stories about playing it in various bars in the bay area and how good he was at it, winning money and free drinks which I remember telling him sounded very illegal to me and then the subject of his dui’s would come up and I’d talk to him about all the dangers of driving after he’d been drinking, urging him to modify his behavior enough to ask for rides or call taxis but sadly it wouldn’t be long before he’d get another one. I’d ask him if he wasn’t scared to death he’d get in an accident and kill someone and he’d reply "he’d never had an accident."

After he’d returned to work and live in the bay area and would get another dui, he’d have to go to the driving program among other things. He would tell me about having breakfast on his way there at this coffee shop and I remember him saying the cops knew him by sight and he had the feeling one was following him or had it in for him as he would see him in the coffee shop and the officer would manage to overlook his shoulder at the register as he was paying on the way out. So of course when I read about Lafferty and his book thought it could be all true and was greatly relieved to learn my friend was not the subject of Lafferty’s book that I almost bought.

He would also frequent sports bars and became friends with a man who is now deceased who worked in the area as a cement contractor. My friend would help this man with his computer in his office and clean up in exchange for rides to the dui driving school when he couldn’t get there using public transportation due to what he said was poor or non-existent bus/taxi service at that time. This man had a girlfriend I’d hear about who’d had a huge drug problem and bad teeth and had gotten in trouble so I did not think it was a good idea at all for my friend to be associating with these people, especially the guy. They’d go to these sports bars and the cement contractor was from Pennsylvania and I do remember his favorite team was the Pittsburgh Steelers. My friend would call me almost daily or twice a day and tell me the latest. Once I remember him telling me how this man left one of these bars without paying the tab and he sounded like the type that would be very loud and rowdy if by chance you’ve ever worked in such a place or remember anyone like this. My friend also told me about other bars he’d go to for the music or the dancing or the clam chowder or other menu item he liked or activity they had like liars dice. I remember once him telling me about a place he went to dance and about an older man who was retired IIRC who would come in using some very unusual cane that would light up…it sounded like the man used it for attention or a gimmick rather than really being disabled but I really don’t know the full story and mention these details just in case it might help jog your memory as it would I’m sure if your poi was associating himself with any of these guys.

My friend was very interested in these bars and really seemed to enjoy meeting and becoming acquainted with the owners. He felt very lonely, I’m sure, after his parents died and I thought he probably did all his socializing this way….kind of like "Cheers" the hit tv program and it is just so sad to think about this now. I also remember he told me he was asked to leave some of these bars on more than one occasion as he’d had too much too drink and they were refusing to serve him any more. This was all in the later years after he lost both of his parents within a very short period of time (six weeks of each other) and in fact his mother died the night before or the night of his 50th birthday, six weeks after the father so that was in 1988 and things just got progressively worse from then on after he retired early and had way too much free time on his hands and time to think about things. He’d call me first thing in the a.m. and we’d have coffee on the phone together and talk for an hour or so and then he’d get ready and tell me he was headed out to one of his favorite local spots where lots of building contractors hung out and seem to remember his saying this place had very good sandwiches they served at the bar. Then it sounded like these guys would go there first thing in the a.m. as they economy tanked and unemployment rose during the housing crisis so he started joining the party even earlier in the day. I think he hung out there a lot of the time during the day in these bars and restaurants having breakfast and lunch out or an early dinner before heading home only to repeat the same the next day or shortly after. He is, as I said, a very private person so don’t think he would have been apt to talk about any of his personal information at these places unless it was one where he felt very comfortable and then may have briefly mentioned a few of the things described but I tend to doubt that. I think it would have been general chitchat, news, weather, sports, etc. Food and drink and I almost forgot that he was very interested in the stock market and would mention one establishment where it sounded like a lot of stock brokers may have gone or other businessmen, such as CPA’S.

Thank you so much for your information about your boyfriend. Everything seems to fit better than OJ’s Glove.

My suspect smoked Pall malls , his hair was brown and curly , his height was closer to 5ft 8 or 9 about 175 to 180 pounds.
His scars however were noticeable , he would try to cover them with powder. The scar on his chin that K Johns said were two scars ,was a Z shaped scar, she probably didn’t see it well enough to see it was conected by a thin line making it look like a Z.

The restaurant I worked at in Oakland, was well known for it’s clam chowder and it was on the water.
If there is some way we could meet, I would like to see if I ever saw your boyfriend. Do you have his handwriting ?
Did he own a light brown Mercury Comet when you met him ?

We have lots to compare !