This might get a bit existential.
Or it might be perfectly rhetorical. Here for pondering and not needing a reply. Or both. Far-out man. I’ve been researching too much beat poetry. 
I was PM’ing about something and thinking about all the ideas we project onto Zodiac to see what might fit. And it occurred to me, what are we fitting and what are we trying to fit it on to?
Well obviously its a representation of a POI. His job, lifestyle, interests, who he is, his identity. We start with the POI and then build up his identity. We can be somewhat confident in it’s accuracy because it’s been observed from the source ie the person themselves. We can’t do that with Zodiac though because all we have is the ‘identity’ there is no person, yet …
… are we trying to combine potentially incompatible things? The answer, I think, rather annoyingly could be both yes and no.
Yes, incompatible because we are taking the everyday identity of a POI and comparing it to the identity belonging to an unknown, an aberration, a construct. An identity that doesn’t exist in the everyday life of that POI. We don’t get to see the everyday identity of that POI, yet we use the everyday identities of our own POI’s for comparison. Zodiac only exists when he exists, "the rest of the time he looks…and is…" you get the idea.
He can’t be Zodiac all the time. He would have been caught long ago. The Zodiac identity stuck out like a sore thumb compared to an everyday one. It was over the top, random, bragging, taunting and possibly liked to dress up and change their appearance way too often, is rubbish at fixing cars, likes writing in code etc.
You might think, well why not? I mean you don’t have to have the changing appearance bit because he only did that when he was Zodiac. Yes I would agree because that’s what I’m saying but if that is exclusive to when he’s Zodiac, why not the rest of it? What if the things we expect to see in a Zodiac POI can’t be found because they’re not there, they don’t exist. The POI’s real identity might have never written anything in code or even expressed an interest in it. Straight out of a book with maybe a little Studying,
Should we be looking for someone with actually less of these ‘tell-tale’ traits? Surely that makes sense and yet I still look for these things in a POI almost without realising when the possible reality is that I’m chasing a ghost as far as indicators go.
But….maybe this is where the no comes in.
No, it’s not necessarily incompatible. You see there’s probably going to be a little bit of the POI’s everyday in Zodiac and vice-versa. So perhaps overlaying a ‘pure’ everyday identity will help highlight ‘actual’ everyday identity traits. Unless he really was that clever and there’s nothing of himself in Zodiac.
Either way I guess I am curious if people think, well first of all if any of that made sense lol, and if it’s possible we are over ascribing an importance to elements we look for in a POI. Should we really be looking for "typical" Zodiac traits in suspects or even ‘any’ for that matter, at least on the level we currently do? It could all well be irrelevant 
Are we chasing a ghost when we should be chasing a person, who was only real to us when he was that ghost?
Heavy-huh. Or a big pile of boo-boo’s.
Afterthought.
Actually I don’t wonder if we haven’t misunderstood the purpose of the 408. "In this cipher is my idenity[sic]". It was a mini-manifesto but that would be the POI’s? Wouldn’t it? The POI wrote that this was his ‘identity’. An identity we will be introduced to, in the next letter, as Zodiac. Up until that he is simply referred to as "the murderer" or "the killer". He’s an identity without a name. An identity the POI is pleased with and want’s to present well. He hides the identity in ciphers which get printed in the paper around the 2nd aug ’69. Two days later he announces the identities name to the world on the 4th Aug ’69. Five days later we are presented with the identity to go with the name.
That’s quite odd when you think about it. We didn’t speculate on the "killers" identity or get a chance to get a feel for who he might be, what sort of person he is, any notable traits. No, instead these outlines are handed to us by the killer. Possibly now more than guidelines because they have been adopted and integrated as "things we we might know about the Zodiac" limited sexual experience, a hunter, belief and or interest in the symbolic and possibly ritualistic and religious concepts….oh and there’s astrology thrown in thanks to the name.
Tell me if it’s really just me thinking a mole hill into a mountain, or at least small hill. Isn’t that like Craigslist before the internet?
"Avid Hunter. Amatuer geologist. Likes kids. Into Astrology & codes." Z.Odiac
Is anything we add to it after that gilding the lily. Are we just expanding on a false identity because the killer set us up to do that very nearly from the start?
“I don’t know Chief, he’s very smart or very dumb.“
A good and interesting post, Trav. I’ll keep my reply short.
Are we just expanding on a false identity because the killer set us up to do that very nearly from the start?
Yes!
It’s a catch 22. Yup, I do believe you are right that this is a guy who probably doesn’t "look like" Zodiac. But if he doesn’t, then how do we know that he is?
That’s why Jimmy and Fred are the best POIs, IMHO. They "could be" Z without having anything that really shows a connection. I know that sounds backwards, but most POIs as you say have traits that we associate with Zodiac, but without those there really isn’t anything that would make anyone think that they could be him in the first place. They are just some guys that are into codes and weird movies, or don’t like cops.
I mentioned something somewhat similar the other day.
If one literally looks for every trait one would think Zodiac would have…they’re probably looking in the wrong place.
I think that is why so many POI’s are just not the right guys. It would make it too obvious. Zodiac, whoever he was, was not that dumb, imo. I do agree, certain aspects would shine through, but "he was into codes, wore wing walkers, taped his guns with flashlights, listened to the Mikado"—lot of POI’s have been mentioned with such traits…it just wouldn’t be that easy.
“…they may be dealing with one or more ersatz Zodiacs–other psychotics eager to get into the act, or perhaps even other murderers eager to lay their crimes at the real Zodiac’s doorstep.“ L.A. Times, 1969
Lemme toss my two cents into the kitty. Like many of us, I was first "introduced" to Z in "The Yellow Book. "Let’s face it, Graysmith was an accomplished, if sometimes fact-challenged, author. Again, like many of us, I was immediately hooked. Here was the payoff for reading, when I was a kid, "The Hound of the Baskervilles". (Incidentally, it was the first book I ever read).
Holmes MacLugh began his investigation methodically. The Bates case had all the earmarks of being Z’s original murder. Although his plot was fairly sophisticated, his choice of weaponry–a four-inch blade knife–was decidedly amateurish: as though he wasn’t sure he really wanted to go through with his scheme. A decided plus for me, Bates had lived in Riverside, CA–only a few miles from where I lived.
Since "The Confession" referred to interaction between Bates and Z at an earlier time, and Bates was only eighteen when she was murdered, I reasoned this interaction probably occurred at Ramona High School. I went to RHS, rummaged through past editions of "Aries"–the school annual–and ran across an interesting individual with the initials, RH. I kept digging, and found more and more connections between Bates and RH–not least of which being that he courted, and wed, a girl who lived around the corner from Bates.
In summary, Zodiac is a real human being who occupied time and space when he committed his crimes. He left clues–some gratuitously, some not. He is not a ghost, or a figment of our imaginations. Like anyone else, wherever he went, he of necessity left a trail
Again and again, I repeat my mantra: it is entirely possible that we amateurs possess all the clues necessary to unmask this killer. We need to weed through the info we’ve accumulated (a Herculean task, that!) and publicize disciplined theories, preferably in book format. In doing so, we accomplish at least two objectives: removing Zodiac from the back to the front burner of public consciousness; and, putting pressure on LE to take a new look at the Zodiac murders.
Yes because if we don’t who will ?
The intelligence and investigator skills are here on this board more or less need to be more organized almost have thread to rebuild what we believe is ground zero and build from there.
The hard thing is we would have to that with a open mind and not push any poi till we agree that we have established a real idea of how the crimes happened.
Yes because if we don’t who will ?
The intelligence and investigator skills are here on this board more or less need to be more organized almost have thread to rebuild what we believe is ground zero and build from there.
The hard thing is we would have to that with a open mind and not push any poi till we agree that we have established a real idea of how the crimes happened.
Man what I wouldn’t give to be able to start from ground 0 with all the SFPD/Vallejo PD research in front of me.
I really do think that this case has almost become a spiderweb of good ideas and bad ideas. There’s so many things that are considered concrete and many ideas that are considered abstract, that really need to be restarted and looked at from the beginning. If we can get a real good solid base on facts, with all the technology and things we know now, I think it would be a great way to investigate this.
However, FBI and local PD’s won’t relinquish quite all their info, and probably never will, due to innocent individuals privacy (which is a good thing) and probably as well as due to certain incompetence (which is a bad thing).
Morf’s signature really sums it up best when you stay awake at night thinking about this case nightly: "There’s more than one way to lose your life to a killer"
Its always bothered me slightly after all this time i know of no credible source that has come forward claiming ..my dad is the zodiac…all we ever get is complete bs claims…if z was ever married or still is married he has hid his past from his wife and his kids…but that is possible..z prolly coached little league and was active in the pta…prolly drove a minivan too…prolly a pet lover too boot….good stuff in here too from you all
Yes because if we don’t who will ?
The intelligence and investigator skills are here on this board more or less need to be more organized almost have thread to rebuild what we believe is ground zero and build from there.
The hard thing is we would have to that with a open mind and not push any poi till we agree that we have established a real idea of how the crimes happened.Man what I wouldn’t give to be able to start from ground 0 with all the SFPD/Vallejo PD research in front of me.
I really do think that this case has almost become a spiderweb of good ideas and bad ideas. There’s so many things that are considered concrete and many ideas that are considered abstract, that really need to be restarted and looked at from the beginning. If we can get a real good solid base on facts, with all the technology and things we know now, I think it would be a great way to investigate this.
However, FBI and local PD’s won’t relinquish quite all their info, and probably never will, due to innocent individuals privacy (which is a good thing) and probably as well as due to certain incompetence (which is a bad thing).
Morf’s signature really sums it up best when you stay awake at night thinking about this case nightly: "There’s more than one way to lose your life to a killer"
I think it’s truly the only way to solve the case I have read so many of post here and so many make sense the manili , kane , sullivan and even the unabomber stuff is so detailed. I think the case blueprint must be started with no emotion and at ground zero. Plus without all the facts we are shooting blind folded amigos. We don’t know who’s been cleared or why they have been cleared. Hell with 1 day of leo resources we could confirm or eliminate sullivan.
Will toschi talk to any of us ?
I know this original post by Trav is nearly 3 years old, but I had not stumbled onto it until now. Much appreciated.
I have to agree that we probably give undue weight to each specific item of evidence and even conjecture in this case. And I can understand why — the temptation is almost irresistible. There is so little left of our ties to that time, and I agree with some who have stated that the longer a violent crime goes unsolved the less likely the truth will be uncovered (in most cases.) Zodiac has struck the chord it has with many of us, but we are so removed now from what few facts ever existed that it becomes unlikely we can piece it together through sheer logic.
But it’s not for lack of trying. And it is not surprising after the number of years and amount of work that has gone into this case by many of the members here, that emotions also become part of the equation. Or at the very least, the investment of creative talents (as well as tendencies.) Opinions will come to bear — but then so does the inspiration that might keep interest in the case alive long enough for us to see it solved.
There is so little left of our ties to that time
that’s the problem. the third variable. we don’t exist in that time. we’re left with a history of "research", some good, most terrible. that research is all we have.
let’s say zodiac in reality was a guy named "jim smith". jim smith doesn’t show up in old city directories because he never owned a house. jim smith doesn’t have an arrest record. he grew up in colorado and isn’t in any of the high school or college yearbooks in the crime areas. he had an interest in cryptography but his wife and kids didn’t so it was just a personal hobby to which friends and family didn’t pay much attention. he was a drinker and a blowhard but other than not having a lot of close friends he didn’t make much noise in his life. he died in the 80s of cancer.
obviously he’s not specifically that person but chances are he’s someone just like jim smith. we can’t find him because, fifty years later, we can only find people who left a trail. we, in 2016, have no way of finding any of the tens of thousands of jim smiths. we find the ross sullivans because they left a trail. we find the arthur allens because they left a trail. is it more likely that the zodiac left a trail? sure, murdering fiends tend to have mental issues or arrest records but we have the advantage of knowing he hasn’t been caught, so eventually it becomes more and more likely that he’s a jim smith. if that’s the case, we’ll never find him. should we be hunting zodiac? no, it’s nuts, but it feels more worthwhile than doing crosswords or reading sci-fi novels. if there’s any chance he isn’t a jim smith, and we don’t know that he is, then it’s a worthy pursuit.
Well put masootz. 
“…they may be dealing with one or more ersatz Zodiacs–other psychotics eager to get into the act, or perhaps even other murderers eager to lay their crimes at the real Zodiac’s doorstep.“ L.A. Times, 1969
At one point zodiac had to screw up.
why did he really stop after stines murder or at the minimum stop the direct taunting and giving information on the crimes only the killer would know.
1 day all the case files wil be released might be 50 years from now but 1 day we will get all the puzzle pieces.
