When Zodiac shot and killed Cab Driver Paul Stine, his escape was made by walking down Jackson Street, then at the intersection of Maple, turning left through a gap in the wall, and onto West Pacific Avenue, a road that you’d expect to find no traffic at night, no people around and the road itself runs directly along the edge of Julius Kahn Playground. If Zodiac wished, he could have asked the driver to take him to that very road, and could have carried out his evil deed there. But Zodiac decided to shoot the driver on a main road through the Heart of Presidio Heights. This also would mean that Zodiac would have to walk public streets, along the front of homes, before he could cut onto West Pacific Avenue. His chances of getting caught by electing to shoot Paul at Washing & Cherry street, rather than West Pacific where he planned to escape anyway, was increased exponentially and did result in his encountering police as they were responding to the scene. It was sheer luck for Zodiac, that the dispatcher had, for reasons that are not known, gave the suspect description over the police radio as A Black Male. This resulted in police pulling up right next to the most wanted man in San Francisco, and then drive off while thanking Zodiac for being a helpful Citizen and pointing out in which direction the suspect with a gun had just ran. The stocky man with Horn Rimmed Glasses did assist the two officers that night, he assisted them to drive off after someone that did not exists, to point them in a specific direction….Away from the man they were having a conversation with.
The point is, Zodiac didn’t need to take such a big risk when murdering Paul Stine. He appears to be taking the risk for the sake of risk taking itself. To use an analogy, a bank robber will have studied the bank he’s planning to hit. He’ll maybe made some dry runs, and will know which of the several escape route’s offers him the quickest and safest escape after he hold’s up the bank. If the Armed suspect simply decided to hit a bank in a busy built up area, and after doing so had a plan to exit the front of the bank, and casually walk away down the street toward a park, we’d probably say ‘He is asking to get stopped and captured’. Zodiac seems to have needed to take risks, maybe he couldn’t just tell police that he was too clever for them, that they’d never catch him, but he needed to commit crimes where he seems to be almost inviting capture, or at the very least, playing a dangerous cat and mouse game.)
To me he seem’s to have a desire, a need to not only tell the police he’s too stealthy and intelligent to be caught, he seems to need to prove it by seemingly coming out from the dark lonely lanes of Lake Herman, or the unlit seclusion of a deserted Car Park at Blue Rock Springs. Zodiac seemed to want to flaunt himself right in the middle of a public street seconds after carrying out his evil work. He then need’s to walk on a public road, in a built up area, under the street lights, and in view of oncoming traffic, because he needs to feel the high he probably gets from being right there, available for capture instantly! But because the ‘Blue Pigs’ failed to do this, even when he stood right in front of their vehicle on Jackson Street 3 minutes after commiting the homicide, this probably confirms for his ego what he allready knew…..’The Police shal never catch me, as I have been too clever for them’.
"So it’s sorta social. Demented and sad, but social, right?" Judd Nelson.
I think there was a message in this one and one that he was willing to take risks to make. I can go into the heart of your city, even into your richest neighbourhoods and kill and you can’t stop me.
That could be a motivation. Of course we don’t know why he did what he did. He must have had a reason to pick Washington and Maple. Maybe he did live around there as some think. That would take some balls.
I’ve at times wondered if maybe he didn’t pre plan on killing Stine at all, but had some other reason to take a cab and then just thought, "Why not? I’m here."
Possibly. But even thoght Zodiac consistantly declares himself too clever for the SFPD, announcing himself to be ‘Crackproof’, I have never believed that this is what the man himself really did believe. I assumed that he simply wrote and declared himself ‘Crackproof’ to annoy Police and rub it in their faces that he’s still out there and free to write these communications because they have failed to apprehend him. I tend to see the comments he made about being crackproof and too clever for capture were intended to frustrate the police that were desperately trying to apprehend him
I could be completely wrong with that of course and Zodiac may have honestly been opperating under the assumption that there was simply no possibility that he could be caught, and that is what he honestly believed. Put it this way then, I don’t believe for one second that Zodiac was commiting these murders because he really did believe that they would become slaves for his pleasure in the afterlife. I mean, ok, if Zodiac really did walk around beleiving himself to be beyond capture, maybe…that would simply Zodiac’s ego overtaking his logic. If Zodiac’s motivation for these crimes were the ones he gave, and he really believed that by killing someone in this life, your then rewardrd for this by then becoming your eternal slave, would be the kind of belief held by a psychotic indivadual who probably also had many delusional belief. The odds of him being able to cimmit the murders, write the letters along with ciphers and do it while never giving yourself away and making any mistakes that would come from the delusional, unstable and Psychotic prone person is not at all likely.
I think Zodiac may have made this claim ‘In Advance’. In other words, if he should one day find himself standing in front of a Judge charged with numerous counts of first degree murder, if which being found Guilty of would almost guarntee that the State will seek, followed by the Judge imposing, a death sentence and in California back then would mean you’d be locked in an air tight chamber while with two chairs and Zyklon B, the lethal gas that suffocates it’s vitims to death by removing all oxygenated air from the room.
"So it’s sorta social. Demented and sad, but social, right?" Judd Nelson.
That could be a motivation. Of course we don’t know why he did what he did. He must have had a reason to pick Washington and Maple. Maybe he did live around there as some think. That would take some balls.
I’ve at times wondered if maybe he didn’t pre plan on killing Stine at all, but had some other reason to take a cab and then just thought, "Why not? I’m here."
BBM: that’s my opinion too.
I think it’s a mistake to try and place reasoning on the whys or why-nots for Zodiac’s actions. I don’t think he ever saw his actions as taking a risk. He killed, imo, because he liked it. It was fun to him. He blamed some unknown force that drove him to kill, causing him to "do his thing." An individual’s "thing" is usually something the individual enjoys doing, not something they are forced to do. Maybe he was compelled to act but he was having fun. He was a sociopath.
When in doubt, don’t.
That could be a motivation. Of course we don’t know why he did what he did. He must have had a reason to pick Washington and Maple. Maybe he did live around there as some think. That would take some balls.
I’ve at times wondered if maybe he didn’t pre plan on killing Stine at all, but had some other reason to take a cab and then just thought, "Why not? I’m here."
BBM: that’s my opinion too.
I think it’s a mistake to try and place reasoning on the whys or why-nots for Zodiac’s actions. I don’t think he ever saw his actions as taking a risk. He killed, imo, because he liked it. It was fun to him. He blamed some unknown force that drove him to kill, causing him to "do his thing." An individual’s "thing" is usually something the individual enjoys doing, not something they are forced to do. Maybe he was compelled to act but he was having fun. He was a sociopath.
Patiky, you make a very good point there. The BTK killer, Dennis Rader, called the compulsion he felt to kill ‘Factor X’. This is what I also believe Zodiac was refering too when he said ‘this thing in me’. But again, many don’t view his letter to Beli as a genuine attempt on his part to reach out for help. As Michael Kelleher points out in his book, Zodiac’s letter to Beli comes one month after SFPD Cheif of Inspector Martin Lee’s statement was published in the Chronicle, in which Lee stated that they had fingerprints, witness description’s and other evidence on Zodiac, and that it is just a matter of time now before they make an arrest. Zodiac was obviously not apprehended and then Four months later in April of 1970, and with Zodiac’s fear of imminent arrest now gone, he writes another letter and now seems to have reverted back to his usual, taungting self with "By the way have you cracked the last cipher I sent you? My name is –"
"So it’s sorta social. Demented and sad, but social, right?" Judd Nelson.
I still feel that part of Z’s thinking, involved killing in one of San Franciso’s richest neighbourhoods. I do not think it would have meant the same thing had he got Stine to drive to Pacific Avenue or any part of the Presidio. What might be worth trying to decipher though (in terms of risk) is the difference between Washington and Jackson and what it might mean, if anything. Jackson being a block closer to the Presidio and cover,if that was his intended escape route.
I can only think, that if he did kill at the corner of Jackson and Maple for instance and was seen by someone in a home that borders the Presidio, that same witness could go to the back of the house/property and observe his route and/or him getting into a car. (that’s if he thought that far ahead).
The advantage with Washingtom is that he could disappear around a corner and witnesses could not say for sure where he went thereafter.
Other than that, Washington held some significance, or he did indeed live nearby.
Most serial killers are power assertive so I’m not sure why importance is being put on that. Since I don’t see Zodiac as a sexually motivated killer I don’t think power assertive means anything in trying to predict his behavior or personality type. FWIW, I see him as asexual.
The first thing that popped into my mind about the difference between Washington and Jackson was James Madison. I don’t think that info is of much use though. 
Seriously, without seeing the site and surrounding area first-hand I wouldn’t want to make a guess as to why he picked Washington over Jackson. While I think Zodiac may have set out that night with the idea of "doing his thing" I see Paul Stine as an opportunistic kill and any change in Z’s plan after deciding on Stine, imo, was to cover his rear end as far as making an effort not to get caught in his cat-and-mouse game.
When in doubt, don’t.
I still feel that part of Z’s thinking, involved killing in one of San Franciso’s richest neighbourhoods. I do not think it would have meant the same thing had he got Stine to drive to Pacific Avenue or any part of the Presidio. What might be worth trying to decipher though (in terms of risk) is the difference between Washington and Jackson and what it might mean, if anything. Jackson being a block closer to the Presidio and cover,if that was his intended escape route.
I can only think, that if he did kill at the corner of Jackson and Maple for instance and was seen by someone in a home that borders the Presidio, that same witness could go to the back of the house/property and observe his route and/or him getting into a car. (that’s if he thought that far ahead).
The advantage with Washingtom is that he could disappear around a corner and witnesses could not say for sure where he went thereafter.
Other than that, Washington held some significance, or he did indeed live nearby.
Interesting you should mention the back of the homes on Jacksons St and Don Foukes ‘Revised’ version of events. Fouke stated in the 2007 Documentary ‘This is the Zodiac Speaking’…
"He (suspect) was putting his head down when he spotted the police car and turned into and entrance way of a house. By entrance way I mean stairs that are concrete that lead to a path that leads to a front door. Never saw him get to the top of the stairs. You want the address of that residence? 3712 Jackson Street." Fouke said he never mentioned this in his original report as he simply assumed the suspect did not live there.
Go on google maps, street view, and look at the back top floor window and the view it offers of the Julius Kahn Area! I mean, I could agree with Fouke making that initial assumption that the suspect probably didn’t live there, but I think seeing the suspect approach a house becomes far more significant after The two following events:
1. Presidio and Julius Kahn area cordened off and a massive search ensues involving 7 police dogs, search lights and a small army of police fails to find the suspect.
2. Zodiac tell’s SFPD he most certainlly was in the area and to prove it, makes several statements of observations that could only be know by someone in the immediate vicinity.
In my opinion, now that you have a massive containment and search effort come up empty suggesting he was not in the park, then Zodiac himself gives you evidence that he most certainlly was at least somewhere close by and able to view the search effort, that the house on Jackson St now would be of strong interest to police and essential for Fouke to disclose this fact.
I think if Fouke really did see the male approach the residence, him not making that known initially was enough to not mention it at all untill 37 years after the fact.
"So it’s sorta social. Demented and sad, but social, right?" Judd Nelson.
Most serial killers are power assertive so I’m not sure why importance is being put on that. Since I don’t see Zodiac as a sexually motivated killer I don’t think power assertive means anything in trying to predict his behavior or personality type. FWIW, I see him as asexual.
The first thing that popped into my mind about the difference between Washington and Jackson was James Madison. I don’t think that info is of much use though.
Seriously, without seeing the site and surrounding area first-hand I wouldn’t want to make a guess as to why he picked Washington over Jackson. While I think Zodiac may have set out that night with the idea of "doing his thing" I see Paul Stine as an opportunistic kill and any change in Z’s plan after deciding on Stine, imo, was to cover his rear end as far as making an effort not to get caught in his cat-and-mouse game.
That is the point I was making. If not direct Paul to West Pacific Avenue, then why not ask to be taken to, as you said, Jackson & Maple street? Even if Zodiac’s intended location was Washington & Maple, again, why not Jackson & Maple? Did he want to be seen? Was he telling the truth when he said "I look like the description passed out only when I do my thing, the rest of the time I look entirle different. I shall not tell you what my descise consists of when I kill"? Its not only logical to assume that Zodiac, knowing he would be walking lit streets in the immediate aftermath of this latest crime, would take steps to alter his appearence, but there would seem to be evidence to support the idea that he did take steps to disguise himself that night by comparing the composite and description of the Presidio Attacker with descriptions given by Hartnell, Megeau etc.
Hartnell said of the man who stabbed him "I looked through (the hood at) his hair. I kinda looked like it was combed. It was brownish, ya know, dark brown". Mageau said his assailant was ‘Stocky build, round face, and brown curly hair". At Presidio Heights, none of the witnesses, neither the teens nor Fouke, describe Zodiac’s hair as either brown, dark brown and/or curly. Fouke described the suspect he saw in the following way: "He had a crewcut, light color hair and possibly greying at the rear". And the teens compiste drawing seems to also suggest a man with short, crew cut hair, that is straight and not at all curly.
"So it’s sorta social. Demented and sad, but social, right?" Judd Nelson.
Well, I’d certainly like to know why and how the decision was made to begin the dog search where they did, as opposed to starting at the Taxi and I’d certainly love to know, who the witness was, who reported someone fleeing across Julius Kahn Playground.
Well, I’d certainly like to know why and how the decision was made to begin the dog search where they did, as opposed to starting at the Taxi and I’d certainly love to know, who the witness was, who reported someone fleeing across Julius Kahn Playground.
I would also. I asked on the old site "Do we know if the dog handlers took the dogs to the cab to pick up on a scent first before going straight to JK Playground?" And apparantly, they did not.
As for the witness who claims to have seen a suspect flee into the presidio Park area, i’ve always had a suspicion that this was something that Don Fouke had said on the night, but was never officially recorded as having been him that said it. When you think about it, it would have to be Fouke who said this because he was the one who, after speaking with Pelissetti at the scene, spun his car around and headed straight for the presidio and gave the announcement over the radio that the suspect was last seen going in that direction.
My point is, the responding army of police didn’t just all decide to surround, contain and then search the Julius Kahn Playground and surrounding area for no apparant reason. They did so in direct reaction to Fouke’s radio message about the suspect he saw.
"So it’s sorta social. Demented and sad, but social, right?" Judd Nelson.
Yes that was my inkling too, regarding Fouke…however (maybe a long shot) what if it was "someone" in a nearby home who called it in!!!
Well again, if that was the case, this may help explain this FBI document that nobody has ever seemed to get to the bottom of…
Who is this eight year old?
Where did this EIGHT year old witness see the suspect?
Who did he name as the man he saw as possibly being Zodiac?
Dose this suggest that the Zodiac was local because a child claims to have recognised him?
Is this child the reason that Zodiac made a threat against school children not too long after?
"So it’s sorta social. Demented and sad, but social, right?" Judd Nelson.
