To be fair, that is a pretty grainy black and white photo using 1960s camera technology in low light conditions. Couldn’t it be possible that a teenager’s 20/20 eyesight from the backdrop of a large fully lit house was good enough to get a fair idea of his face – especially if he was observed from various angles for quite some time? Don’t forget they said the dome light was on in the cab and the whole scene was illuminated for some time.

I do agree though, I don’t think we can accurately interpret that Z had one ear 3mm lower than the other or a wrinkle in his forehead, etc. If a few teenagers agreed on it looking like him and Fouke/Zelms checked it and backed it up as being a flipping good match to the guy they encountered around the corner, then I’m happy that it is a reasonable likeness to how Z looked that night at least. And it could well be that Fouke/Zelms did actually halt their car to stop Z and chat to him from 15feet away…

I know what you are saying, but this camera technology was good enough to reveal those small numbers. There is no way three kids inside a house 60 feet away could read these small numbers, and if they couldn’t read those numbers, then the faces of the bystanders would be equally worse than the photograph. It was 10 pm and a new moon, very dark.

The children’s eyes would be accustomed to lit spaces from inside the house, thus one could surmise their view of a darker space such as the outdoors would be hindered even more so.

Not so sure about this. I spent many a time with friends in my teenage years, sitting and looking out of my window at the comings and goings in the street outside. If it was a man running past the window for 2 seconds then I’d agree, their statements weren’t probably worth much – but this was a crime unfolding for maybe 30 seconds or a minute in an illuminated cab in a dark street so it would probably have been like watching someone spotlighted in a stage show.

The children’s eyes would be accustomed to lit spaces from inside the house, thus one could surmise their view of a darker space such as the outdoors would be hindered even more so.

Not so sure about this. I spent many a time with friends in my teenage years, sitting and looking out of my window at the comings and goings in the street outside. If it was a man running past the window for 2 seconds then I’d agree, their statements weren’t probably worth much – but this was a crime unfolding for maybe 30 seconds or a minute in an illuminated cab in a dark street so it would probably have been like watching someone spotlighted in a stage show.

One allegedly went to the street level as well. I still don’t think you’d get such distinct facial features, but a general appearance for sure.

I know that if I try to look outside while it’s dark I have a harder time discerning details than if I were standing outside, simply because the light from the inside contracts my pupils.

But it was fairly dark out there regardless.

Just a thought.

I know what you are saying, but this camera technology was good enough to reveal those small numbers. There is no way three kids inside a house 60 feet away could read these small numbers, and if they couldn’t read those numbers, then the faces of the bystanders would be equally worse than the photograph.

But those numbers are down at floor level and the people are in the background. Didn’t Z walk around this side of cab directly opposite the kid’s windows? His face would have been at eye level to them and much less than 60feet away at one point.

Don’t forget that the camera flash would illuminate the front side of the cab and the focus would be set here. In the photo, the people in the background aren’t illuminated properly and are out of focus. A human viewing the scene could pretty immediately focus on one part such as Z’s face.

I agree a general appearance, but not one to go matching suspects to. Eyewitness testimony is terribly unreliable.

or a minute in an illuminated cab in a dark street so it would probably have been like watching someone spotlighted in a stage show.

How do you know the cab interior was illuminated? None of the photos show an illuminated cab, and the car was presumably off at the time.

Regardless, dome lighting back then was often dim.

or a minute in an illuminated cab in a dark street so it would probably have been like watching someone spotlighted in a stage show.

How do you know the cab interior was illuminated? None of the photos show an illuminated cab, and the car was presumably off at the time.

Regardless, dome lighting back then was often dim.

Street Lights? Investigator’s lights?

I was in a hurry and didn’t read fully what he wrote. Thought he was referring to cab interior illumination.

So let me restate the question…how do you know the cab was illuminated as if it were under a spotlight? Are there any contemporary night photos of the scene?

Seem to remember one of the statements saying that the interior light was on and the kids clearly watched Z struggling with Stine and with Stine’s head in his lap. Then Z began wiping down the dash, etc with a cloth. Doubt anyone would see all that if it was dark and far away. I might be mistaken though – will have to check the police reports / witness statements.

It would make sense though as it would be fairly standard practice for a cab driver to turn on the interior light at the end of the journey for the passenger to pay and if for some reason he didn’t then it probably would have come on when Z opened the door to get out. Should have been enough to cast some light on the perp I’d have thought?

Seem to remember one of the statements saying that the interior light was on and the kids clearly watched Z struggling with Stine and with Stine’s head in his lap. Then Z began wiping down the dash, etc with a cloth. Doubt anyone would see all that if it was dark and far away.

Yes, I recall this too.

They also described him has having blonde hair with a reddish tint. That’s pretty specific if they were watching a guy in the pitch dark.

What police report are you guys reading? I’m reading the one on Tom’s site. I see the reddish-blonde hair (and the early forties age), but nothing about interior illumination.

They also described him has having blonde hair with a reddish tint. That’s pretty specific if they were watching a guy in the pitch dark.

I doubt it was "pitch dark" outside. That’s dark side of the moon, inside of a black hole type darkness. It would be more like low-light level.

Was there even a moon that night?

I’d have to look it up.

Nope.

http://spacefem.com/quizzes/moon/?m=10&d=11&y=1969

For what is is worth (posted by Wrench 2012)

http://www.zodiackillerfacts.com/forum/ … =21&t=1401

From retired LE Jim Dean:

I have talked to the Robbins kids extensively and they are a remarkable couple of kids. …Some background… This is an upperclass neighborhood (Duh!) The Robbins father was (maybe still is) a renowned surgeon. At the time of the murder, the senior Robbins was about a block away attending a formal dinner at the Belgian Embassy. You can begin to get the status and education of the family. The kids (1 and 2 were 16 and 13 Respectively) were having friends over for TV, Popcorn, games, etc. There was no alcohol as some have suggested.

As both Robbons kids were the oldest, their statements were the given the most weight. Also they were the least traumatized by the event. One of the kids (not sure which) noticed a cab parked outside (in that now famous spot) with the interior lights on. (I have to insert my personal experiences here.. In the late 60’s the American cars were large and roomy. I drove an identical police car many years ago and can tell you the interior dome light was very bright. It was even brighter when you removed the opaque plastic lens that covered the bulb. We (police) did it so we could more easily read/write reports in the car, and I noted that cabs also removed these lens covers for the same reasons: to be able to read/write reports, trip tickets, make change for passengers, etc.

So when 1 told me that the light inside the car was like a spotlight, it was so bright… I knew what he meant (even though he didn’t).

To continue…the first kid at the window said the driver looked "sick, or something". 1 and 2 went to the window and saw the driver laying across the front seat, head toward the passenger door. His head was in the lap of another man (passenger). 2 saw blood and said out loud, "he’s stabbing that man." She was seeing blood on the victim and saw the glint of a knife, so she assumed a stabbing was taking place. (No shots were heard by anyone)
We know now that Z was cutting off a large piece of Stine’s shirt with the knife.

At this time, 1 went downstairs to get a better look at what was happening, while one of the kids upstairs called the Police. Downstairs, the lights were off, so 1 knew he could not be seen from the outside. He got close to the window and watched his actions. He was shortly joined by 2. They both watched and observed in silence as Z pushed the driver to an upright position behind the steering wheel, exited the car and walked around the rear of the car and opened the drivers door. Stine had fallen over onto the seat and Z pulled him back up into the seated position and had some difficulty keeping him upright. Once upright, he was seen to have a rag, or something like a handkerchief and began to wipe down the door area and leaning over the driver, part of the dashboard. Whe he was finished, Z calmly walked to Cherry St. and walked North.

Not many know this, but 1 (being 16. feeling immortal, and beleiving the susp to be armed with only a knife) ran out his door to see where Z was going. He ran to the corner of Cherry and watched as Z continued his casual pace right up to the corner of Jackson & Cherry.

At this exact point, the first SFPD car arrives with two officers. One, Palesetti, approached 1 and tried to extract what was happening. The other officer went to the cab and found the bloody victim. While Palesetti asking questions, 1 was trying to explain that the susp was in sight on Cherry St. By the time Palesetti got the point, they both looked and the Z was gone.

The assumption was Z continued North into Presidio Park and the resultant search extensively covered this area.

Palesetti followed a different path East on Jackson in the event Z had turned East. What happened next is for another story.

But, I want to tell you how the sketches came about. Within 48 hrs of the murder, Tochi had recruited a young uniformed cop named Juan Morales, who was said to be a good artist. He asked him to talk to the kids and see if he could work-up a composite of the susp. Morales sat down with all the kids and slowly developed the first sketch. Most of his input he took from the two oldest (1&2). Within a day or so, someone (not sure who) decided it was a bad idea to have multiple people contribute to a composite. So Morales sat down with the kids again and after a time, determined that 2 was the most artistically inclined, and the most observant of facial features. So, he did the final sketch from only 2. When done, all the kids looked at it individually and agreed that was VERY close to the man they saw on that night."