I recall listening to Sherwood Morrill on a video years ago in regards to Z’s handwriting. And he was basically saying that the experts in the field, including himself, can tell a faked handwriting from a real handwriting style. And when I heard him say that it took me back to a thought I had in the beginning of this case regarding handwriting. What if Z, or you, or I, decided to write on such things as crimes we’ve committed to LE, but we always used a template (that we selected from someone else’s writing), maybe a writing that’s the opposite of our own. In other words he creates an alphabet that he always follows when writing, makes the keystrokes just the way the person does who he selected his template from. And it is not related to him at all.
I think a lot of Z’s writings, especially in the beginning were so emotionally driven that I really don’t think Z was using any template, but I don’t think that would be his normal writing style either. It would be too easy for someone to recognize. It seemed like he was just putting the felt tip to paper and rambling, like a maniac. Of course if Z was really smart he might do just that.
I just have never agreed with Sherwood’s statement from back when. If we were talking about cursive writing, then that would be different, but printing I would think if one put their mind to it, and had a process, and that’s the only writing that the experts ever saw from someone, it could never be traced to the writer. How could it? It really doesn’t exist, cause you made it up. Just a thought.

Maybe Z was so alone, so unattached from people, that he was so anonymous, that he could write a letter like that, and nobody would come forward saying they recognized it.

Maybe he didnt have any close Friends or Relatives,etc, or maybe he was in a job where he didnt have to write, so maybe people just didnt even recognize it, since they were not used to seeing it. This is a possibility that strikes me when thinking of a suspect like Ross Sullivan. He TRULY was alone in northern CA. His Brothers moved away, his Parents were dead. If he had a menial dead end job, and no friends, somebody in his position could get away with this type of writing. (Interesting that Ross’s brother comes back to the bay area in mid 70’s,and the z letters stop)

Yeah we can only hope that was the case. I rather think of Z living in obscurity, then being a great dad to 3 kids and no one noticed. Santa Cruz is a place that always allowed for someone to live in obscurity if they wished.

Maybe Z was so alone, so unattached from people, that he was so anonymous, that he could write a letter like that, and nobody would come forward saying they recognized it.

Maybe he didnt have any close Friends or Relatives,etc, or maybe he was in a job where he didnt have to write, so maybe people just didnt even recognize it, since they were not used to seeing it. This is a possibility that strikes me when thinking of a suspect like Ross Sullivan. He TRULY was alone in northern CA. His Brothers moved away, his Parents were dead. If he had a menial dead end job, and no friends, somebody in his position could get away with this type of writing. (Interesting that Ross’s brother comes back to the bay area in mid 70’s,and the z letters stop)

Well The Uni-bomber, you can’t get anymore removed from society and people than he was living in a tiny cabin in the woods. In fact, if you look up te terms ‘recluse’ and ‘Hermit’ in the dictionary there is a picture of Ted beside each. He had no social life nor anyone to call a friend and had no desire to have any. Ted decided to write his manifesto and intended all along to get a publisher on board for his thoughts and opinions to be recognised by others. Well he got his publisher and his entire manifesto went into print where it was brought to Ted Brothers attention along with a worrying suspicion that the writer of the Manifesto had a tendency to do something very peculiar and unique and something that he had only ever known done by his Brother Ted and that was,; a fondness to use well known phrases, sayings or philosophies and say them the wrong way round or in reverse of how they are said and known by everyone else. The main one that his brother said alarmed him, and why he phoned the authorities to turn his brother in, was the author of the manifesto’s claim that "You can’t eat your cake and have it too." This is obviously a well known saying just reversed. Ted’s IQ was in the Genius range if I am not mistaken, and yet, he makes such a stupid school boy error as this to bring police right to his door.

I am not disputing your point Morf and nor am I claiming that because Ted was flushed out & caught this way and he was the Hermit of Hermits then this means Z would have to have been also, certainly not. But Ted K had no friends and did not seem interested in staying close to any family either and there were only ever two people on the Planet, David Kaczynski and his wife, that would be able to associate these odd and unique style of phrase with an odd and unique individual but, that’s all it needed to.

I personally do not believe for one second that Zodiac would be heard using the term ‘Blue Meanies’ in everyday conversation when the subject being discussed is the San Francisco PD. Nor do I think in 1966, 67 and 68 he sent Greeting Cards to family and if he had any, to friends offering his best wishes hoping they have a "Merry Christmass." I mean some people may say that they believe Zodiac was oblivious to anything being unique as he was spelling it how he thought it was supposed to be spelled and therefore didn’t realise he was mailing the Chronicle something that is akin to a fingerprint in it’s uniqueness but for me, there’s just no chance at all that is true because if it were then it means Zodiac is a completely stupid and dyslexic dunce and was mailing his own dyslexic fingerprint and B, someone would surely now notice this oddity in Z’s letter and become highly suspicious and offer a tip to LE that John Doe, a friend of your brothers say for instance, does the exact same thing and you know he does because it stood out as odd when he sent you the last Christmas greeting card.

And was he really that inverted that nobody would know him to recognise his writing style or phraseology? Wears Military boots that, unless stolen, he acquired from the Military. He has a vehicle so chances are he went out and took a test, then purchased a car which he seems to make use of with the letters he mails he does so postmarked from all over Bay Area. If he’s a recluse, he a very socially active one.

If that was his natural freehand writing style, along with an accurate depiction of his preference’s on choice of words and phrases like Blue pig to refer to a cop, the ‘Shall’ instead of ‘Will’ preference, and so many others that I really struggle to believe that nobody recognised not only his handwriting, but also any of the unique and specific traits in how he worded something or referred to things, places and people.

Again, just my personal opinion and not claiming that its more likely than a alternate theory.

I know one thing, the letters like the. ‘Little list’ are way too long in length for me to think z write that with anything other than his every day writing hand. I think the only things he may have done to hide his writing may be to lean the paper at an odd angle or to write messy, but I’m convinced we are looking at what is close to his normal writing

Yeah, the idea that Zodiac created a fake handwriting style that he was able to use consistently through all his writing, able to remember it perfectly to jot down on the car door after fleeing a crime scene, like you said, and also used it on the riverside desktop poem which we have no reason to assume he ever intended on connecting to the Zodiac crimes…maybe it’s possibly, but is it really more believable than him just using his own handwriting and not matching any that were compared against it because they weren’t the same?

I’ll agree with some psychologists that he may have had psychotic episodes or was under the influence of drugs that altered his handwriting in a way that might not be immediately recognizable to the layman, but not to the extent that the letters would in no way match his normal writings and/or were consciously disguised.

Duck…

If Morrill said that he believed the letters to be written by a natural and fee flowing hand then that very likely to be correct. I am not challenging him and his professional conclusion nor anything said by anyone else. All I am saying is that you keep saying how it’s consistent in it’s appearance and style and recognisable as Zodiac’s and yes at the surface it does. But look very closely at the way each and you’ll find that in one letter he constructs each singular letters, ie – A F E S etc using one starting point in one letter, then completely change how he constructs each letter and you can then add ‘In’ in from of Consistent because that’s exactly what it is.

Has there ever been a second professional opinion offered by someone given access to the original, not copies, Zodiac Letters? It’s a fact that there forgers out there that can create or copy one image to look so much like another (original image) that Art Collectors have found themselves being told that the painting they paid $3.000.000 for 6 weeks ago is worth $3 because it’s a highly skilled and excellent forgery.

And yes, the writing on Hartnell’s Door does appear to suggest that the man in the hood, Zodiac, wrote it there. But is that actually and specifically his intent, to make something look like a certain way to fool people into thinking "Now we know that the person who is killing and calling himself Zodiac has that type and style of writing so if we suspect someone, we’ll need to get a sample of his printing"

I mean if people want to try and find a handwriting match to the letter’s because it’s obviously going to be the Zodiac killer writing it then that’s up to them, but if Zodiac isn’t writing the letters then you’ll be off on a wild goose chase looking for hundreds of known suspects & POI’s to submit samples of their handwriting for comparison and could eliminate the Zodiac in the process because his handwriting doesn’t match and that’s because he never wrote the letters.
Sound unlikely doesn’t it. Instinct is to dismiss with "No, it’s not logical for the letter writer to be at Berryessa waiting in the area or maybe even Z’s car for him to return. Now again most reactions will be that this just doesn’t make sense or not believable as thought anything this man does or says is ever going to be rational and normal.

I think sometime people forget who it is that we are speaking of here because this is the same ‘person’ who freely admits a few weeks agter the "writing on the door" appeared that:

"If you wonder why I was wipeing thecab down I was leaving fake clews for the police to run all over town with, asone might say, I gave the cops som bussy work to do to keep them happy. I enjoyneedling the blue pigs. Hey blue pig I was in the park.!

And those size seven leather gloves left in Paul’s cab were not left by him with any motive to deceive either….even though he make’s the above claim.

I mean Zodiac doesn’t accidentally drop the word ‘Prove’ into his statement: "I am the Murderer of the taxi driver over by Washington and Maple streets last night. To Prove this, here is a blood stained piece of his shirt (Here’s the evidence, proof positive that this author and that Killer are one and the same.)

" I am the same man that did in the people in the North Bay area" he tells us also. Don’t you think that it’s a very odd comment he makes when he states "I am the same man that did in the people in the North Bay area?" Don’t you think that’s a very unnatural set of words to use to say what he wants to get across here. I would expect something far more normal like "I killed the people in N. Bay area too" or something like that. "I am the same man who did in the people…" well nobody is suggesting that it was a different man Mr Z so why such blatant attempts to convince us you are not a different man or anything but, actually, your the same man? See now just saying that one phrase alone is to imply that there may be two or more involved because why would he say ‘he’s the same man’ and so we should not spend any of our time or attention on looking for another different man because he is the same man that murdered Paul and did in them people in the N. Bay.

I mean the murderer of Stine was fannying about at the Cab for long enough that we could be forgiven for expecting to find on the passenger side door "10/11/69 – 10:00pm. By gun. *Cross-Hair Symbol.* But no, he’s too busy holding Stine to his earlier comment of "I would give them the shirt off my own back." That’s what he wants you see, shirt pieces! Because then he can shout "PROOF" and we’ll all nod our heads confirming "Most certainly is that alight" before we then offer Exhibit A into evidence in the case. The very thing he’s suggesting to you that this proves, that being that writer writing the letter has to be the killer as only the killer could have these pieces of shirt in his possession, actually proves absolutely nothing of the sort. It proves that there is certainly, at the very least, a connection between the person writing the letter and the killer of the cabbie, not that they necessarily both one person. But nope, Zodiac used the word prove and Zodiac is a very honest and truthful citizen who, just like all other Serial Killers, has no reason to use any deception in anything they ever say and nor do they have reason to create false positives and "Leave fake clews."

Even the police and investigators decided back at the time that:

Fingerprint found at Yellow cab cannot be said to be that of the offender with certainty and they pointed to the ‘possibility’ of one of the medical crew or police officers inadvertently having touched the cab after trying to find signs or life and handling Pauls blood soaked corpse.

DNA: Sample is only that of a partial profile and as such can be used to eliminate people as suspects but cannot conclusively point to anyone specifically as no full profile is there for a match to be achieved.

And finally, because of the above concerns, investigators were using the handwriting as their No.1 piece of evidence on which to incriminate or eliminate suspects that they interview. Because of this it is now possible for them to have in their interview room, sat at arms length distance across a table, the man who murdered David, Betty, Darlene, Cecelia and Paul and shake his hand and thank him for coming down to the station and he’s free to go because the sample of Zodiac’s letter they have just given him to copy from in his own handwriting is no where near even similar to the handwriting of "Thee Zodiac."

Oh I could see Z openly using the term "Blue Meanies" in the Bay Area. That’s what cops were called then, when not referring to them as pigs. It was either pigs or blue meanies. No one would have batted an eye by someone using that term in ’69. It came from the Beatles 1968 released movie Yellow Submarine. It was catchy and the counter culture of the Bay Area at that time loved it.
To me Z displayed two writing styles, the maniacal writing of a lunatic, that went severely down and to the right, and seemed to truly be the writings of someone very disturbed, then he had the more refined (still crazy) writing style that he exhibited when he wrote to Belli, much easier to read, seemed like he was gathering his thoughts beforehand. And when comparing those two styles it’s easy for a Sherwood Morrill to compare those and say whether it’s a true Z writing or not. I don’t doubt any of Sherwood’s findings in the case.
I think it will be interesting to see when Morf gets the SSN applications back from various POI’s.

You really think some guy who is stupid and reckless as the Zodiac was in the way he committed his crimes, is going around leaving all these fake clues like some fictional villain? You know a better way to get away with a crime? Just don’t leave clues in the first place.

The only people who think he left fake clues are the ones who don’t like the fact that the clues don’t match their preferred suspect. They don’t see the lack of logic for why he was able to fake enough evidence so that it would not match him, but failed to avoid becoming a suspect and having that evidence compared against him by police in the first place. Again, a really smart guy would not do anything to become a suspect and then he’d have no problems.

Well, I don’t have a preferred suspect, so that’s not the case with me. Is it farfetched to think the gloves left in Stine’s car or the Timex left at Bates crime scene are fake clues?

So, Duckking, if Zodiac wss so stupid and careless, why was he so elusive you think?

Zodiac was careless, but lucky. He got witnessed, left witnesses alive, wrote to police, called them, etc. Personally, I also think he left a major clue by getting connected to Riverside CA and to Bates.He would never get away with his crimes today. He realized how close he was to being caught after the Stine scene

I’m amazed there are still so many who are abducted. No doubt Z would have had to clean up his act. But that’s what criminals do, they adapt to LE technology to get away with their crimes. It also amazes me how dumb criminals still are…They commit some horrendous crime, LE comes upon them as a suspect, goes to their homes and finds the shoes they wore, the levis, whatever. If you’re gonna do some horrible crime, they should either do it in the nude, or plan on disposing of all the clothes they wear during a crime. I’m glad they are that dumb.

You really think some guy who is stupid and reckless as the Zodiac was in the way he committed his crimes, is going around leaving all these fake clues like some fictional villain? You know a better way to get away with a crime? Just don’t leave clues in the first place.

The only people who think he left fake clues are the ones who don’t like the fact that the clues don’t match their preferred suspect. They don’t see the lack of logic for why he was able to fake enough evidence so that it would not match him, but failed to avoid becoming a suspect and having that evidence compared against him by police in the first place. Again, a really smart guy would not do anything to become a suspect and then he’d have no problems.

Well, I don’t have a preferred suspect, so that’s not the case with me. Is it farfetched to think the gloves left in Stine’s car or the Timex left at Bates crime scene are fake clues?

So, Duckking, if Zodiac wss so stupid and careless, why was he so elusive you think?

, If Zodiac wss so stupid and careless, why was he so elusive you think?

He eluded capture because he was so skilled and intellectually superior to all others that he went up some steps on Jackson Street. This will always make someone appear innocent and completely non suspicious.
Again, sorry for the slightly sarcastic undertone, I don’t mean it as an insult to anyone personally but if Zodiac’s intelligence is to be put forward as the reason and means by which he was able to elude police on Jackson then there must be hundreds of thousands of super criminals out there doing this magical elusive tactic also getting away with everything daily .

Zodiac tried his best to look as absolutely suspicious as possible as according to Don Foukes own words "He put his head down when he spotted the police car, then turned into the entrance of a house." Executed cab driver 100 yards away around the corner, guy walking in direction away from scene itself who spots cop car, refuses to look at police and puts dead down before turning to avoid having to cross paths with them. The man may aswel have wore a t-shirt with giant logo printed "I AM CAB SLAYER because that’s how obvious his actions were to us now, albeit with the benefit of hindsight I know. It wasn’t his stealthy elusive Ninja like skills that allowed him to slip away into history off Jackson that night, it was the mistakes of the police who had him right there in front of them as Officer Fouke acknowledges later saying
"
"I think I second guessed myself that night. I should have stopped and spoke to him……But we didn’t."