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Zodiac’s true handw…
 
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Zodiac's true handwriting

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smithy
(@smithy)
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Trav – good stuff.
It looks like that Moser forensic ruler segment is an inch long, then, and (at the risk of being even more confusing, mixing measurements), that to fit around about 22 lines on the card the writing must be about 3-4mm high (four at maximum) on that side, and perhaps SLIGHTLY larger, say between 4 and 5mm (max) on the address side. Yes?
I’ve just given it a go myself, writing that small in a 5.5 x 3.5 inch space (thanks Tahoe); that’s pretty small cramped writing.
That must have helped LE and others, with the recognition process.
Lettering the ciphers would have been a doddle for someone used to working at such a small scale. Like a watchmaker, ain’t he. :lol:

I wonder how big the writing is on the car door at Berryessa, especially since "Vallejo" is lettered so well? What does the fact that the small writing translates so well to the large text on the door mean?
I wonder how big the text is on the "Halloween" card?
Interesting.

(GS says "I looked at the small printing on the letter" on page 48, "Quickly she scanned the thin blue lines" on page 102, so he gave us some hints, but I think the definitive statement we’ve all read about the character size might be someplace else. No matter.)

 
Posted : August 16, 2013 1:28 pm
(@bayarea60s)
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Welsh….

You know the letter you sent out on 7/27/13, has always bothered me a bit. I know Z had this neat handwriting he would use, like the Belli Letter, and this one you shared here. You know his letters are made much clearer, no slanting down to the right. i’s dotted over the I, not way to the right. but the part that has always bothered me is how he writes the Z symbol. In all other missives he always starts the circle of the symbol at the 1 O’clock position, or fairly closely to it, but in this letter he begins between the 9 & 10 O’clock position. I’ve just always found it odd.

 
Posted : August 18, 2013 9:55 am
(@vegas-lawyer)
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I think we can learn alot about Zodiac’s true, unaltered, undisguised writing,from the car door at Berryessa. Z didn’t have all the time in the world like he had when he mailed his letters, no time to disguise & alter it. At Berryessa, he had just killed two people(thought so anyhow),and likely didnt want to hang around for long,so likely did a quick note in his own real,everyday writing. What jumps out at you??

I see the #2, looks like the letter Z,no curl at the top.

The letter K is an obvious 3 stroke

The letter F, is a candy cane F, nice curl at the top.

For me,these are 3 writing traits I look for when examining possible Z writing

You’re making an assumption that Zodiac tried to disguise his handwriting. I think circumstances determine handwriting quality. Writing on a car door, from a likely crouched position, is not a natural way to write a letter on paper where the writing surface is flat and one is sitting comfortably. We all write differently at different times, depending on our attention level, the time we have to commit to the writing, the writing surface, how tired we are, etc. I would not agree that Zodiac’s writing on the car door is indicative of his natural writing because he is amped up from just committing murders, he might have been out of breath from hiking up a hill, and he is writing on an unfamiliar surface at a different writing angle.

From my own experience, my handwriting differs dramatically from when I am writing in a hurry (like taking notes on a lecture or a witness statement) or whether I have plenty of time to compose my thoughts. Also, another wrinkle in handwriting is carpal tunnel. Someone with wrist or hand injuries might see their handwriting change over time as the injury worsens. There are just so many factors to consider with handwriting to make analysis difficult.

 
Posted : April 13, 2021 1:02 am
Russ Thompson
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… [It is] obvious by [Zodiac’s] attempts in several letters to write them and remove the tilted, slightly slanted effect from the words. But in everyone of thse attempts, he fails.

My dad was a lefty, and his handwriting demonstrated the same type of letters tilt exhibited lower in that Belli letter. Dad’s handwriting lines would often drift at a severe downward angle without delineated paper. The left hand travels differently across the L-T-R writing surface than the right hand.
I am definitely not saying that my dad was also the Zodiac like so many other fathers. But I am openly wondering if Zodiac was a lefty or ambidextrous?

That was too much!

 
Posted : May 11, 2021 8:17 pm
(@vegas-lawyer)
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… [It is] obvious by [Zodiac’s] attempts in several letters to write them and remove the tilted, slightly slanted effect from the words. But in everyone of thse attempts, he fails.

My dad was a lefty, and his handwriting demonstrated the same type of letters tilt exhibited lower in that Belli letter. Dad’s handwriting lines would often drift at a severe downward angle without delineated paper. The left hand travels differently across the L-T-R writing surface than the right hand.
I am definitely not saying that my dad was also the Zodiac like so many other fathers. But I am openly wondering if Zodiac was a lefty or ambidextrous?

Is a downward slant something unique to lefties? I have a downward slant to my writing and I’m a righty.

One of the hallmarks of handwriting by lefties is smudged text because the hand passes over the text after it’s written. I have seen some Zodiac letters where the text appears smudged or blurry, but I am not sure if that is a function of how the letters were stored, chemical analysis done after the fact, or the the product of natural handwriting.

 
Posted : May 11, 2021 10:12 pm
Russ Thompson
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is a downward slant something unique to lefties? I have a downward slant to my writing and I’m a righty.

The slanting of the letters themselves? Probably happens in both handedness. The tendency for the full sentences on the page to list starboard on unruled surfaces is a bit of a lefty thing, no?

That was too much!

 
Posted : May 12, 2021 1:49 am
(@vegas-lawyer)
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The slanting of the letters themselves? Probably happens in both handedness. The tendency for the full sentences on the page to list starboard on unruled surfaces is a bit of a lefty thing, no?

I don’t know. That is a great question for a handwriting expert. I can say as a righty, my handwriting trails down towards the right on unruled paper. So, I don’t know that it’s a trait unique to lefties.

 
Posted : May 12, 2021 9:24 pm
(@coffee-time)
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According to Graysmith, both Morrill and Shimoda thought Zodiac was right-handed. Would be nice to have a source other than Graysmith, of course.

 
Posted : May 12, 2021 10:06 pm
Marshall
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According to Graysmith, both Morrill and Shimoda thought Zodiac was right-handed. Would be nice to have a source other than Graysmith, of course.

When Lindsey mentioned Z wiping down the cab, did he note which hand Z was using?

 
Posted : May 13, 2021 8:04 am
(@coffee-time)
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I should have said, "wrote letters with his right hand." Although, APA says, "10 percent (of the population) are either left-handed or some degree of ambidextrous, though people with ‘true’ ambidexterity—i.e., no dominant hand at all—only make up about 1 percent of the population." So the odds of Zodiac being truly or mildly ambidextrous are rather slim.

I don’t recall left or right-handed activity being mentioned by witnesses. I wouldn’t be surprised if nobody thought to ask. The police sketch of "LB guy" shows the gun in his right hand, holster on his right side. No mention in the BRS reports of gun hand/flashlight hand, unless I missed it.

 
Posted : May 13, 2021 9:29 am
Marshall
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I should have said, "wrote letters with his right hand." Although, APA says, "10 percent (of the population) are either left-handed or some degree of ambidextrous, though people with ‘true’ ambidexterity—i.e., no dominant hand at all—only make up about 1 percent of the population." So the odds of Zodiac being truly or mildly ambidextrous are rather slim.

I don’t recall left or right-handed activity being mentioned by witnesses. I wouldn’t be surprised if nobody thought to ask. The police sketch of "LB guy" shows the gun in his right hand, holster on his right side. No mention in the BRS reports of gun hand/flashlight hand, unless I missed it.

If Bryan was willing to answer one more question, I would think he would remember which hand Z used to wield the knife.

If you believe Stabber Z was Shooter Z….. :D :D

 
Posted : May 13, 2021 9:36 am
(@cragle)
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I should have said, "wrote letters with his right hand." Although, APA says, "10 percent (of the population) are either left-handed or some degree of ambidextrous, though people with ‘true’ ambidexterity—i.e., no dominant hand at all—only make up about 1 percent of the population." So the odds of Zodiac being truly or mildly ambidextrous are rather slim.

I don’t recall left or right-handed activity being mentioned by witnesses. I wouldn’t be surprised if nobody thought to ask. The police sketch of "LB guy" shows the gun in his right hand, holster on his right side. No mention in the BRS reports of gun hand/flashlight hand, unless I missed it.

If Bryan was willing to answer one more question, I would think he would remember which hand Z used to wield the knife.

If you believe Stabber Z was Shooter Z….. :D :D

:twisted: :twisted: :D

 
Posted : May 13, 2021 10:57 am
(@vegas-lawyer)
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If Bryan was willing to answer one more question, I would think he would remember which hand Z used to wield the knife.

If you believe Stabber Z was Shooter Z….. :D :D

If Stabber Z held a knife is his right hand, does that necessarily mean he wrote with his right hand? I’m not so sure.

 
Posted : May 13, 2021 11:31 pm
Marshall
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Posts: 643
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If Bryan was willing to answer one more question, I would think he would remember which hand Z used to wield the knife.

If you believe Stabber Z was Shooter Z….. :D :D

If Stabber Z held a knife is his right hand, does that necessarily mean he wrote with his right hand? I’m not so sure.

I believe it would mean he was either ambidextrous, which is uncommon, or right-handed, which I believe is the point, moreso than which hand he wrote with.

If we could determine whether Z was right or left handed generally, then it might be handy* when looking at suspects, where people who knew them might recall which they favored when working with objects. For example, if Bryan said the guy used his right hand when showing him the gun, handing them the rope, and using the knife, and people who knew POI XYZ said the guy was a strict left-hander, then we’re probably looking at different people.

*weak pun.

 
Posted : May 14, 2021 2:17 am
(@vegas-lawyer)
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If Bryan was willing to answer one more question, I would think he would remember which hand Z used to wield the knife.

If you believe Stabber Z was Shooter Z….. :D :D

If Stabber Z held a knife is his right hand, does that necessarily mean he wrote with his right hand? I’m not so sure.

I believe it would mean he was either ambidextrous, which is uncommon, or right-handed, which I believe is the point, moreso than which hand he wrote with.

If we could determine whether Z was right or left handed generally, then it might be handy* when looking at suspects, where people who knew them might recall which they favored when working with objects. For example, if Bryan said the guy used his right hand when showing him the gun, handing them the rope, and using the knife, and people who knew POI XYZ said the guy was a strict left-hander, then we’re probably looking at different people.

*weak pun.

Right. I get your logic. But, I will give you an example. I shoot right or left-handed. I fight mostly southpaw, but I can fight orthodox. I can use a knife equally well with both hands. In fact, I can use two knives at the same time. But, I can only write with my right hand. So, if you saw me shoot or stab someone, you would have no earthly idea which hand I write with. Now, I get that I’m somewhat of an anomaly (my parents told me that I am naturally left-handed but that the forced me to write only with my right hand). But, I think the principle holds true that its hard to know what hand someone writes with by observing other activities.

However, we do know that there are certain letter formations and writing traits that are characteristic of lefties (smudged text is one that I got from lefty because when the get lazy, their wrist or palm glides over the text they just wrote). So, I would take a handwriting expert’s analysis over what a witness says about what hand Zodiac used for a given action.

 
Posted : May 14, 2021 2:25 am
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