Are they actually backwards K’s or, is it the symbol which he used to represent the letter P…just in a different direction?

http://zodiackiller.com/ExaminerCipher.html

There was a (very brief) thread about this on the ZKF forum in late 2011:

http://www.zodiackillerfacts.com/forum/ … =53&t=1365

Personally, I’ve never thought of that symbol as a "backwards K" at all. I just think of it as one of the many symbols that Z used.

-glurk

Maybe when he wrote it backwards, it was not natural, and as a result, he did it in less strokes? What makes more sense, a whole bunch of 3 strokes in most of his letters, assuming he purposely changed them all to 3 stroke, or a few backwards ones that he did by accident because he was writing them backwards? My vote is that he naturally did a 3 stroke.

Then again, in his later letter, the SLA letter, he did one completely different as seen below(if there was ever a confirmed Z letter that may have been not really from Z, I would say it is this one, it looks absolutely nothing at all like Z’s in my opinion)

I think that if i can get 100 samples together from different people we can determine empirically if people generally make a mirror image of their natural "K" as the backwards version, or if they create a new backwards version. This may be more useful than theorizing.

As for the origin of the symbol, if you think it is something other than a backwards K, I guess you are excused from the exercise!

The Badlands letter seems to mix three-stroke and two-stroke letter "K’s".

Mike

Morf – I agree, "sla" isn’t a Zodiac communication IMO.

Mike, if we do indeed "determine empirically if people generally make a mirror image of their natural "K" as the backwards version", uhhhh, how exactly is that going to be useful? Just wonderin’.
(When are we going to discuss "upside down" letters, btw?)

Morf – I agree, "sla" isn’t a Zodiac communication IMO.

Mike, if we do indeed "determine empirically if people generally make a mirror image of their natural "K" as the backwards version", uhhhh, how exactly is that going to be useful? Just wonderin’.
(When are we going to discuss "upside down" letters, btw?)

Are you actually going to ask 100 people to write a backwards K? By the way, I just tried it myself, and while it didn’t feel natural, and I had to think about it as i executed it for an extra half second, it came out the same as my normal k, a 3 stroke that looks the same,only backwards

Tried this myself and I personally find that I draw three-stroke K’s both forward and backwards but the three strokes are more recognizable when I attempt to make a backwards K. Z’s creation of letters is an interest question from a neurological perspective, IMO. As long as we’re comparing, I would throw in that "picnic table" symbol that could represent a forward or backward K rotated by a quarter turn. Apologize for not having my cipher translator handy…

Hi-

Seems like we’re well on our way to 100 already…I make my backwards k as a mirror of my forward facing k.

I don’t get the question about upside down letters. The goal is to try to get a handle on whether people make their backwards k as a mirror of the forward one. What does upside down have to do with that? Wouldn’t an upside down k look like a backwards one? Z made his backwards k (assuming it was one) with two strokes. My idea is that this suggests his three stroke forward k is contrived.

Mike

Mike,
Yes – upside-down letters on another thread.
Why do you need to "get a handle on whether people make their backwards k as a mirror of the forward one"?

Hi Smithy,

Well, if the overwhelming majority of people make it as a mirror image of their normal k, It is a small hint that Z may have concocted the three-stroke one because all of his backwards k’s are two stroke letters. an upside down k is the same as a backwards one, so no worries.

Mike

I don’t really understand the point of this ‘exercise,’ or where it is supposed to be going, but in any case, I am a visual person so I’ve made an image:

If I were to refer to an "upside-down K" I suppose I would use the rotated one, although the vertically flipped one could also be considered, depending upon how one defines "upside-down."

What I think Mike is trying to say here is that since the Z32, Z340, and Z408 ciphers all contain a symbol that he (baselessly) assumes is supposed to be a "backwards K" that does NOT resemble the "flipped horizontally"
version above, it means that Zodiac "goofed" in the ciphers and accidentally gave away his "real K," that being a 2-stroke version.

Meaning, I suppose, that all of the hundreds of 3-stroke versions used consistently and unfailingly throughout every single one of his letters were all a subterfuge.

I guess Zodiac was REALLY CONCERNED about the letter "K" and how he wrote it.

Personally, I find the idea preposterous. My supposition is that the symbol that "resembles a backwards K" — and that is a good way to describe it — was, to Zodiac, just that. A symbol. One of many he used.

-glurk

(I don’t really understand the particular importance of the letter "K" anyway… I mean, unless someone had a suspect with that letter in their name, or whose name started with it, or, oh wait…)

Forget the K…look for the lower case q’s. He just flat out couldn’t write them.

(sorry…back on track)

For me, the test didn’t matter. I tried to write fast without even thinking about it. Either way, either K, did it without hesitating either way. I normally do a 2-stroke. I think there was purpose they were different and agree with Glurk that it was not a backwards K.

Hi Glurk,

Here is a funny story: Until you accused me of trying to question the letter "K" because it is my suspect’s initial, I hadn’t even thought about that. I was just doing this exercise because that three-stroke K is the one letter everyone says defines Z’s unique handwriting–and that his handwriting was "natural." I called my friend Jim last night and told him what you said and he said that HE hadn’t thought about the "K" in relation KQ’s name, either.

So you are not a mind reader and should really give up that career.

And here is something else for you to think about: When is a "K" not a "K?" In the 340 Z crossed out the only character he ever corrected. Have you ever done research to find out what letter that was? I have. It was a "K." And what did he replace it with? A "sideways picnic table" or some "special character?" No. He replaced it with a backwards "K" that he made with two strokes. This is the error he supposedly made: He put a forward "K" where he meant to put a "backwards one. Or it that too much of a stretch?

I will say it again at the risk of being repetitive: I think Z may have contrived his forward letter "K" because he makes his backwards version with two strokes. Now are you going to tell everyone yet again that it was a "special character?"

Mike

mike_r-

Let me explain why I think this "EXERCISE" is a bit less than honest. On April 17, 2014, morf13 made the post:

Mike R, I can get your suspect’s hand printed ss application if you like for $30, should give you some printed writing to work with

Link: viewtopic.php?f=44&t=1069&start=70#p18080

On May 5, 2014, morf13 made this post:

I have stated, I would be happy to send away for his social security application, if somebody that thinks he was z, would donate the $30. I don’t think there is the slightest chance that he was z,but that’s just my opinion. I can not, in good conscience, pay to get his ss application, when people that think he was Z don’t want to get it. The guy was 50 years old in 69,sorry,I cant see it. I mentioned at Tom’s site, and I will do so here too, I applaud Mike R’s efforts to research X, and like Mike, I think it’s quite possible that Zodiac wrote letters to the editors of papers using his real name, which is how Mike found X.

Link: viewtopic.php?f=44&t=1069&start=110#p18684

On May 9, 2014, morf13 posted:

He may not have liked the idea of being accused of murder, and since he had the financial means to defend himself, threatened to do just that. By the way, I am sure multiple people around the area and street were questioned but none of their names appear in any police reports.

Just a reminder, for anybody that thinks mr x was z, please send me a $30 donation and I will be happy to obtain his social security application to show off his real hand printing. I just don’t understand why nobody will take me up on that offer?

Link: viewtopic.php?f=44&t=1069&start=110#p18784

And finally, later on May 9, morf13 posted:

I don’t want to spend alot of time on this, because in my own opinion, there’ no way in hell that mrX was zodiac. First off, how do we know, with certainty, that MrX was the man walking his dog? That does not appear in ANY report. With all due respect to Mike R, seeing is believing, as opposed to heresay.
Also, speculation that Mr X was known by the Robbins Family prior to the Stine murder, and seems likely that the kids would have recognized him as the man at the cab.

Let’s face it, MrX does not fit the typical profile of Zodiac. Most profilers that have profiled zodiac do not place him as a wealthy well to do businessman type. But one profiler in particular states that somebody like MrX could be zodiac, so are we supposed to drop what all the other profilers seem to agree upon?

Reluctantly, I am going to break down and spend $30 and get MrX’s hand printed ss application. My gut feeling is it will look nothing like Zodiac’s writing, but I guess we will see. Mike R asked me sometime back, if I would clear a Suspect based on one writing samples? My answer is no, but it would go a very long way to clearing him. If it looked nothing like Zodiac’s, not in the least, he would get moved way down my list as a suspect. My bet is, that when I get this and post it, it will look nothing like zodiac’s writing, but there will still be somebody latching onto him as a suspect, failing to see the obvious. I have been offering to get Mr X’s writing for weeks now, despite him not being my suspect, and nobody has had an interest in seeing his writing. To me, that is telling, it tells me, they are not very optimistic that it will match zodiac’s

Link: viewtopic.php?f=44&t=1069&start=110#p18789

And then, Mike, one day later on May 10, 2014, you post this "EXERCISE FOR EVERYONE" thread, questioning Zodiac’s handwriting, specifically the letter "K" which is the first letter of your own suspect’s name.

I’m sorry, but I just do not believe that you are being forthright.

-glurk