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The Z13 "My name is ___" cipher and the 3 circled 8s

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(@adrian)
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Hi all,

Newbie to this forum. I have long been interested in this case, and the 340’s solution by Oranchak and his team have reignited that interest in solving his remaining ciphers.

Absent any other information, both the Z13 and Z32 ciphers would be nearly impossible to confirm a solution considering the possible solution space (especially true for the Z32 given how few characters are repeated). But, if we assume these ciphers are related to his previous ciphers in a logical and straightforward way, I think confirming a solution is possible. That said, I don’t think simply applying the 408 or 340 keys is the correct approach – however, the way he says "by the way, have you solved the last cipher I sent you?" immediately prior to giving thw Z13 seems to hint at some relation.

One thing that struck out to me in Oranchak’s solution is that the 340, like the 408, is also split into three sections. This interested me because the Z13 "My name is ___" cipher has three previously unused circled 8 symbols symmetrically inserted around the center of the cipher. So I wonder if the keys of the 408 and/or the 340 are supposed to be applied in a special (but, again, simple and logical) way according to the three sections they’re each divided into.

What do you guys think?

Edit:

Another observation is regarding the cyclical reading of Oranchak’s solution. Suppose that the Z13 is a simple stand alone substitution cipher (without any adjustments for frequencies given its short length). If this was the case, I would wager that the solution is actually something recognizable and relatable to the case/his past writings (not an actual name). If this was the case, he might have also done a transposition following how he did it in the 340 to make it more difficult to crack. So that rather than reading the Z13 in its normal form, we have to read every nth character, for 2 <= n <=12. An interesting phenomena is then observed: The repeating characters are A, N, M, and the circled 8. Both occurrences of N and M are exactly 8 distance apart (reading through it cyclically). Similarly, all occurrences of A and circle 8 are 11 distance apart (reading through it cyclically). Maybe it’s just a coincidence, but otherwise perhaps it suggests the reading distance is either 8 or 11, since such a transposition would result in the two sets of repeated letters being equal distance apart. Just a thought.

Another interesting point is that N and M, both of which occur twice, have two letters between them in both instances when reading left to right. i.e. we have "MXXN" and "MYYN" in the cipher, so perhaps "MN" is a bigram and the reading rule involves reading every third letter.

 
Posted : December 16, 2020 11:02 am
traveller1st
(@traveller1st)
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I’ve been wondering about the same things. Seems unlikely that the Z13 and the Z32 don’t have some purpose, given that the 340 actually was a message.


I don’t know Chief, he’s very smart or very dumb.

 
Posted : December 16, 2020 1:29 pm
(@nick-no-nora)
Posts: 541
Honorable Member
 

I’m not smart at codes like Dave. So along the lines that the OP is thinking, a possible Z13 solution would be:

RobHTheHippie

Let’s say it’s a simple substitution and then an unscramble. You need an unusually high number of the repeating letters (three doubles and a triple, so to speak, in only 13 letters). The phrase THEHIPPIE gives you four doubles in 9 letters. So only 1 of those doubles needs to repeat 1 more time.

Then the RH fits in from the Desktop poem.

It could also be

RobETheHippie

For Robert Em(m)et The Hippie, which would match the leftover letters in the 408.

 
Posted : December 16, 2020 5:08 pm
(@blackdoomer)
Posts: 11
Active Member
 

An random idea.
What if to reduce the dictionary we use for automatic tools to the names and surnames from the Vallejo / San-Francisco phonebook of those times?

 
Posted : December 19, 2020 1:18 am
glurk
(@glurk)
Posts: 756
Prominent Member
 

Big list of possibilities here:

http://zodiackillerciphers.com/wiki/ind … _Solutions

——————————–
I don’t believe in monsters.

 
Posted : December 19, 2020 3:48 am
BDHolland
(@peaceandlove)
Posts: 608
Honorable Member
 

I am thinking something basic like this and filling in the symbols with possible letters.

www.zodiachalloweencard.com has a 400 paged book for free containing the super solution with an overarching explanation of the cards and more.

 
Posted : December 22, 2020 4:38 am
(@druzer)
Posts: 229
Estimable Member
 

Good idea

 
Posted : December 22, 2020 5:55 am
BDHolland
(@peaceandlove)
Posts: 608
Honorable Member
 

Are those 8’s Ks? Is this KKK? Klan?

Zodiac symbol a klan sign?

Okay hand gesture in Halloween card a klan sign?

Does the Z13 read A MEAN KNIGHT ME or something like that?

Imperial Wizard?

What’s the story with Klu Klux Klan and the Zodiac? Any links there?

Hmm….

www.zodiachalloweencard.com has a 400 paged book for free containing the super solution with an overarching explanation of the cards and more.

 
Posted : December 22, 2020 4:06 pm
Quicksilver
(@quicksilver)
Posts: 76
Trusted Member
 

SargentPepper

 
Posted : December 22, 2020 7:23 pm
jacob
(@jacob)
Posts: 1266
Noble Member
 

Are those 8’s Ks? Is this KKK? Klan?

Zodiac symbol a klan sign?

Okay hand gesture in Halloween card a klan sign?

Does the Z13 read A MEAN KNIGHT ME or something like that?

Imperial Wizard?

What’s the story with Klu Klux Klan and the Zodiac? Any links there?

Hmm….

It’s been suggested before that Zodiac was some sort of white supremacist, but then why were all his victims white.

 
Posted : December 22, 2020 8:28 pm
jacob
(@jacob)
Posts: 1266
Noble Member
 

SargentPepper

I like this one for the same reason I like "Alfred E Neuman" as a solve. Irreverence and cultural references you’d expect from Zodiac.

 
Posted : December 22, 2020 8:29 pm
Quicksilver
(@quicksilver)
Posts: 76
Trusted Member
 

There is a Pepper street in Vallejo….last name?….maybe a Sargent in LE or Military lived there?…..maybe someone who knew the area at the time could jump in?….total stretch, but who knows?

 
Posted : December 22, 2020 8:38 pm
Quicksilver
(@quicksilver)
Posts: 76
Trusted Member
 

Just did an overlay of the Zodiac crime scenes including the telephone booth….25 min. away from Pepper Dr……very interesting proximity to Blue Rock Springs and Lake Herman RD also……within 15 min…..

 
Posted : December 22, 2020 9:14 pm
BDHolland
(@peaceandlove)
Posts: 608
Honorable Member
 

Are those 8’s Ks? Is this KKK? Klan?

Zodiac symbol a klan sign?

Okay hand gesture in Halloween card a klan sign?

Does the Z13 read A MEAN KNIGHT ME or something like that?

Imperial Wizard?

What’s the story with Klu Klux Klan and the Zodiac? Any links there?

Hmm….

It’s been suggested before that Zodiac was some sort of white supremacist, but then why were all his victims white.

They hate some white people too. For example Jews. However Zodiac’s victims were Christian for the most part.

I would guess the Zodiac is a member of every and any organisation he could be a part of. His whole psychological makeup is warped and inexplicable. We can only make sense of components here and there but the big picture should be just be insane. His victims are somewhat nerdy looking hippy types. White supremacists also target white people who fight for equality. Civil rights workers Michael Henry Schwerner and Andrew Goodman were murdered by the KKK.

www.zodiachalloweencard.com has a 400 paged book for free containing the super solution with an overarching explanation of the cards and more.

 
Posted : December 22, 2020 11:57 pm
(@finder)
Posts: 21
Eminent Member
 

I think any solution needs to explain the symmetry of those 3 circled 8’s and needs to use as few assumptions as possible. I posted this on Reddit a couple days ago, in an attempt to do just that. I don’t totally buy Xenophon as a suspect, but it’s an interesting way to look at the cipher nonetheless. At the very least, I hope it’ll provoke some discussion.

I have no particular favorite suspect, but I saw the threads on Xenophon Anthony and thought, “that’s a strange name.” So I looked up Xenophon and came across the Wikipedia page on Xenophon of Athens.

One aspect of the Z13 that has always been especially strange, given its extremely short length, is the occurrence of the (8) symbol that occurs 3 times, centered exactly in the middle of the cipher.

That middle portion of text reads (+)(8)K(8)M(8). To me, that pattern would be even more “perfect” in a sense if the (+) symbol were replaced by I. Since then I is 2 characters before K in the alphabet, which is 2 characters before M, the pattern would be completed.

Based on that idea, if we collapse that whole middle portion to just the letter I, then the cipher reads

AENITNAM

If we reverse that, we get

MANTINEA

which is a city where Xenophon of Athens fought one his last battles.

 
Posted : December 23, 2020 1:02 am
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