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glurk
(@glurk)
Posts: 756
Prominent Member
Topic starter
 

Here’s a new thought. In the 340 cipher, Zodiac uses the plus sign (+) 24 times, more than any other symbol in that cipher.

But he used it in his letters as well, perhaps to an unusual degree. Instead of writing the word "AND" he almost always used + instead.

If I were writing, and wanted to replace the word AND in a sentence, I would use the ampersand sign (&) – "I’m going to go to the store and do this & that."
But did Zodiac ever use the ampersand? I don’t think he did. He always used +

I’ve looked over the letters looking for the word AND, and while I haven’t done precise counts, the use of + seems far more common.

In the Belli letter, he writes out the word AND one single time, but uses + in three places where the word AND would be appropriate.

In the ‘Little List’ letter, comprised mostly of "lyrics" he does write the word AND many times, but this letter is the exception, by far.

I welcome comments on this, but please look over Zodiac’s letters. Every time you see ‘+’ pronounce it as PLUS instead of AND. See how many times you say PLUS. :shock:

-glurk

——————————–
I don’t believe in monsters.

 
Posted : November 21, 2013 2:57 pm
(@gestr)
Posts: 69
Trusted Member
 

Many have noted that Z gives himself away as an engineer, even to numbering the pages of his letters as an engineer does: "1 of 4, 2 of 4," etc.

An engineer would have more affinity for a + sign than an ampersand.

 
Posted : November 22, 2013 7:35 am
AK Wilks
(@ak-wilks)
Posts: 1407
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An engineer … or a mathematician.

MODERATOR

 
Posted : November 24, 2013 7:13 am
traveller1st
(@traveller1st)
Posts: 3583
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If I were writing, and wanted to replace the word AND in a sentence, I would use the ampersand sign (&) – "I’m going to go to the store and do this & that." But did Zodiac ever use the ampersand? I don’t think he did. He always used +
-glurk

Sorry for not responding to this consideration sooner. I have been mindful of it and have been letting it bounce around ‘up there’. I’m not sure I have anything to add yet about the context of the usage ie when is a + a plus and when is it an ‘and’ etc etc. What I did pick up on when I first read this thread was the ampersand question.

I’m just typing this as I’m thinking about it so sorry, no visuals yet but I’ll try and drop some in later. They won’t strictly be in the wider context of my thoughts but that’s ok, that’s for me to sort out in my own endeavours. They will be examples rather than in-depth comps.

Soooooo the ampersand. Did he use it? Well this is Zodiac and as such nothing is simple. The answer could be yes, maybe and no.

YES – Zodiac uses something in the bus bomb letter that isn’t a + but it is used in the context of an adjoining symbol – ie an ampersand.

MAYBE – I can’t, with absolute certainty, say that it is an ampersand (by that I mean IF he intended it to be one). However it isn’t a plus and it isn’t the word ‘and’ but it is used in that context.

NO – It’s not and ampersand – as we traditionally know them.

It is used as one so what is it? Well I’m gonna settle for calling it HIS ampersand. Ok, it’s later, here’s the example lol.

There’s a lot of investigating to do, on my part, regarding this alone but I wanted to respond to the ampersand thing. I’m kicking around the notion that even though the bulk of the canonical writing may be close to his natural handwriting there’s things like this that turn up all over the place. These little variations which may be a mix of habit and disguise. In my handwriting investigation some of you may recall that I’ve suggested a possible pattern involving three. ie three of each variation. Even here it’s popping up. The +, the ‘and’ …..and ‘HIS ampersand’. Three variations on one usage (technically, sometimes the + is a plus).

Even on the + there’s variations but I’m not sure why yet. I would have said natural variation if it hadn’t been for that ampersand ‘thing’ . Part of me wonders if that ‘thing’ isn’t closer to what he actually uses and the variations on the +’s might be signs of him drifting into it.

Why do I find things in 3’s interesting? Well for me it’s the base level of subterfuge or confusion. Think of the game find the ball, 3 cups, one ball. Even from a non subterfuge viewpoint. Things blend well in 3’s and produce more variations and less stark than using 2’s, ie one or the other.

I like ampersands from a graphic perspective. A wonderful device visually but I can’t actually write or draw one. It’s one of those things that never found its way into my hand or finger memory. That’s another thing I have to factor in here. Was he trying to do an ampersand but can’t or is that actually HIS ampersand that has developed to look like that from years of application?

There are a reasonable amount of accepted variations on the traditional &. It depends on what font you use or, if using them for inspiration to write, which one you like the look of. We are used to the & configuration as kinda standard but in design it was sometimes not ‘pretty’ enough. As a slight aside here’s my preferred ‘pretty’ one used in a very clever and iconic (in design annals anyway) piece of branding.

Now, what we have to ask ourselves is….how the hell can someone prattle on so much about a bloody ampersand? Soz lol. :roll:


I don’t know Chief, he’s very smart or very dumb.

 
Posted : December 4, 2013 1:46 pm
glurk
(@glurk)
Posts: 756
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Topic starter
 

Here is a bit of history I have just found on the ampersand, which is new to me:

http://www.adobe.com/type/topics/theampersand.html

Trav, that might be even more interesting to you, from a graphic / design perspective.

The reason I posted this thread originally though was less about the lack of the ampersand and the use of the + than it was about Zodiac’s
(apparent) dislike of using the simple, common word "AND."

When I first looked at it, I thought, "wow, he always uses +, but never writes ‘and’ in his letters!" But when I went through the letters, he does
use AND – but almost always when he quotes or paraphrases Gilbert + Sullivan lyrics… ;)

Not to mention that when he does write the + sign, it seems to always be written in a continuous, joined way.

So maybe, in looking at possible forgeries, etc., we could see if "AND" was used, or "+" was used. It stood out enough to me to make it a possible
tell-tale sign of Zodiac that he may have been unaware of revealing…

Or, I could be full of it. But I still think it’s interesting.

-glurk

——————————–
I don’t believe in monsters.

 
Posted : December 4, 2013 3:03 pm
smithy
(@smithy)
Posts: 955
Prominent Member
 

That ampersand’s going to need a ceasarean section.
Sorry. Don’t mind me.

 
Posted : December 4, 2013 3:05 pm
traveller1st
(@traveller1st)
Posts: 3583
Member Moderator
 

So maybe, in looking at possible forgeries, etc., we could see if "AND" was used, or "+" was used. It stood out enough to me to make it a possible tell-tale sign of Zodiac that he may have been unaware of revealing…

Or, I could be full of it. But I still think it’s interesting.

-glurk

Absolutely. There is something there that needs looked at. I know my post about the ampersand was kinda comprehensive (long) but I wanted to interject that, not so much as being important but more to get it out of the way. It’s a topic on it’s own. Leave the floor clear. or less complicated, to explore the purpose/intention of this thread.

He likes his pluses, that’s for sure. Consider the back of the HC, paradise slaves, in a plus or cross config. Even the envelope with "sorry no cipher" in a cross, x, or plus config depending on how you look at it. The pivots also in the 340 could be considered as one half of a + if cut diagonally. Heck, his symbol even has a bloody great big + in it.


I don’t know Chief, he’s very smart or very dumb.

 
Posted : December 4, 2013 6:15 pm
(@featherweight)
Posts: 26
Eminent Member
 

I noticed something about the + sign. In old Ogham it means:

+ means
elm A Elm/Silver fir Foresight, perspective

Might this have had something to do with Z.’s use of the + sign?

http://symboldictionary.net/?page_id=3456

It was the alphabet letter

A

Did Z’s name start with an A, or somehow he was associated with an A?

 
Posted : January 27, 2018 12:42 am
joku
 joku
(@joku)
Posts: 205
Estimable Member
 

Here’s some examples of different ways to write an ampersand (&). I think the "+" sign just boils down to simplicity. Considering that other circular thing he did in one letter, he probably wasn’t used to writing ampersands. Actually I’m surprised he didn’t turn every plus into a small Zodiac symbol :D

Is ampersand commonly taught at schools in the States? Having went to school in Europe, I do not remember ever being formally taught it.

 
Posted : January 27, 2018 5:12 am
(@anonymous)
Posts: 1772
Noble Member
 

… I think the "+" sign just boils down to simplicity. Considering that other circular thing he did in one letter, he probably wasn’t used to writing ampersands…

I’d have to respectfully disagree – though it’s all a matter of opinion. I think the Z writes his Zampersand or Zplus in a very naturalistic and flowing way; all done in one stroke – first top to bottom, then a nice reverse-loop to the left before sweeping right. Very distinctive, and executed in a manner which indicates he regularly wrote it that way.

Many people have posted POI handwriting samples, but I don’t recall any with the distinctive, tell-tale Zampersand. Even TedK, who has the closest printing style to Z of any POI perhaps, doesn’t use the very particular Zampersand AFAIK.

Here’s an image posted by theforeigner in 2010 (at zk. com) showing the regular Zampersand:

 
Posted : January 27, 2018 11:55 am
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