I’ve been trying to digest his argument from that radio show, and I quickly get lost in his manic, speculative reasoning. He keeps saying he can prove it all in court. And I keep picturing morf’s and the host’s eyes glazing over.

"I can prove it in court"- only, he can’t, LOL

I still have it on pause about halfway through. I just find myself zoning off…

If everything changes as new information is found out (in the beginning Paul Avery got a piece of shirt via Horan at ZK.com via the movie Zodiac, Herb Caen got a piece of shirt if I recall correctly–via Horan)…then it will probably change again.

This is my concern. When comments get made by people as a fact of the case when they clearly are not. Some people are basing their conclusions off of bogus information.

I still have it on pause about halfway through. I just find myself zoning off…

If everything changes as new information is found out (in the beginning Paul Avery got a piece of shirt via Horan at ZK.com via the movie Zodiac, Herb Caen got a piece of shirt if I recall correctly–via Horan)…then it will probably change again.

This is my concern. When comments get made by people as a fact of the case when they clearly are not. Some people are basing their conclusions off of bogus information.

That’s the issue, he got too much of his ‘facts’ from the movie. When he told me that 3 piece of shirt were mailed by Z, I knew about the one to the Chron & one to Belli, and I called him out on it expecting for him to say Avery got one too.

A little over halfway in. Really like being able to hear you elaborate your points in speech rather than text. No disrespect to anyone, but I find Horan talks way too much and 100% of what he says is completely pulled out of nowhere. Silly, silly argument and I really can’t believe how hard he backs it.

I had to stop listening half way through. It wasn’t just Horan’s wild speculation and his disregard for facts, but his inability to finish a sentence or a thought, before going off on a bunch of different tangents. He reminded me of the Fred Armisen character, Nicholas Fehn, from Weekend Update.

Just out of curiousity, was Brian Hartnell ever brought up in the discussion? Because he is proof positive that there was a killer out there identifying as Zodiac.

There wasn’t enough discussion (I could stop there!) – there wasn’t enough discussion about the attacker at Berryessa, style of dress, interaction with Bryan and Cecelia etc., it was a bit glossed over, I thought. Oh well.
Amongst other problems with the show…..

Did I hear that right, did Horan say, "I fantasize about committing the perfect murder?"

I’m sure that was out of context and he meant he thinks about how someone could commit such a murder, but that is scary.

Ha ha – yes that WAS weird.

My bad. He said "perfect crime" not "murder". So maybe he meant like illegally downloading a pizza.

If I had never talked to the guy before I might think that he was worth entertaining. It’s not that he really says anything untrue, just that he interprets everything in the most wildly implausible way, yet not impossible.

His point about the Washington and Maple thing/ Knob hill thing is that the Zodiac allegedly incorrectly said "Washington and Maple" instead of Cherry street. Then Kenny Powers, in his career as a journalist before he became a pitcher, said that Stine’s logbook said "Maple", which confirmed that Zodiac had information only known to police. Then someone else said police were searching Knob Hill where Paul’s fair got picked up.

To Horan this shows that the police record showed Knob Hill, but that Powers was the Zodiac hoaxer, because he had information the police didn’t have, and that the Zodiac did have.

He refuses to consider the more plausible scenario that one or both of those reports was simply mistaken. Powers might’ve just been repeating what Zodiac said as a fact and made up the part about the log book, or the police really did have that information and shared it with him, but not with the public. The reference to Knob Hill said police searched the area from tips about Zodiac getting in a cab. It did not say that Paul’s log book stated that, and the paper just made the assumption that was where the fare originated. Or more likely someone told police that they saw Zodiac get in a cab there, and they searched the area anyway, no matter if the log book said Maple St.

My bad. He said "perfect crime" not "murder". So maybe he meant like illegally downloading a pizza.

You can do that now, ducky? Wow. Do you need one of those special printers?

….. To Horan this shows that the police record showed Knob Hill, but that Powers was the Zodiac hoaxer, because he had information the police didn’t have, and that the Zodiac did have.

It’s a bit odd, that, just as you say.

My bad. He said "perfect crime" not "murder". So maybe he meant like illegally downloading a pizza.

You can do that now, ducky? Wow. Do you need one of those special printers?

In the US there was a public service announcement against software piracy saying "You wouldn’t steal a car. You wouldn’t steal a wallet. You wouldn’t steal a DVD". Since they were equating the theft of a car, etc. to downloading a video, people created parody ads saying "you wouldn’t download a car." which led to more parodies of other things that you wouldn’t download, in particular, a pizza.

Ah, thanks for that. I figured it must be regional.
The 3D printer joke was funny though.

Mmm. Plastic cheese.

Morf, I heard your debate with Horan, and it led me to this site (I was aware of both Voight and Butterfield’s sites prior to this). I have been listening to the Generation Why podcast since early this year on iTunes, and while I was thrilled to hear them discuss the Zodiac case, which I don’t think they had before, I wondered why they had chosen Horan to be a guest (twice) before even establishing the consensus about the Zodiac case.

The debate went as I expected. Horan is very wordy and fillibusters his way thru a lot of material. I really felt like the main point that should have been countered was in regards to Graysmith. It seems to me the majority of Zodiac investigators recognize the fact that Graysmith should not be counted on as the be all and end all of the truth in this case. He is a guy who has a POI that he wants to push and has made an industry of being "the guy" who solved the Zodiac case. Unfortunately he is not the only one. It still doesn’t mean the police engaged in a massive conspiracy to invent a boogeyman to explain away a couple of drug murders.

Back to Horan, his wild speculation that reporters were allowed to meddle a’la Carl Kolchak and sneak into police stations to tamper or steal evidence is loony enough. And his spin on Lake Berryessa is more of the same. It doesn’t hold together. Horan is no different than any other guy in this case with a theory he wants to push down everyone’s throat, damn the facts.

IMHO, I bet whoever the Zodiac is, we don’t know his name yet.

Wotcher Dick!
Re: "It still doesn’t mean the police engaged in a massive conspiracy to invent a boogeyman to explain away a couple of drug murders."
No it doesn’t.
I don’t think Mr Horan said that, either – although (since he said so very many things, and so very quickly) maybe I missed it and he did say that.

His general opinion is that an individual who had access to information from police reports hoaxed everyone into believing that multiple murderers undertaken by different individuals were undertaken by just one man. Him.
Well, that was it I think.
There might be two hoaxers now, one from the Chronicle "taking over" from some earlier guy, I think.
But hey, I can’t interpret all of it, I should leave it to you to sort out for yourself. Although perhaps your references to "wild speculation" and Carl Kolchak and "loony" and stuff make me think you ain’t gonna be bothered.