Hi-

It is possible that Betty Lou was on her right side when Z left. When the first police officers came, she was described as being face down. What if there was a small spark of life that allowed her to move a bit before she died? She may have repositioned herself on her own. Or maybe gravity made her roll onto her face.

If the killer saw her on her right side prior to leaving the scene and noted that, then only her knew that. Had he read the police reports, he would have simply said "face down." I didn’t go through all the reports but Pitta’s said "face down," and he and Warner were first on the scene. If the killer had access to these reports, why would he say something different from what is written in them and then expect the editor confirm something the police did not see?

To me, it seems that Z’s statement confirms that he may have seen something nobody else saw…the crime scene as it was originally.

Maybe I am missing something?

Mike

Hi-

It is possible that Betty Lou was on her right side when Z left. When the first police officers came, she was described as being face down. What if there was a small spark of life that allowed her to move a bit before she died? She may have repositioned herself on her own. Or maybe gravity made her roll onto her face.

If the killer saw her on her right side prior to leaving the scene and noted that, then only her knew that. Had he read the police reports, he would have simply said "face down." I didn’t go through all the reports but Pitta’s said "face down," and he and Warner were first on the scene. If the killer had access to these reports, why would he say something different from what is written in them and then expect the editor confirm something the police did not see?

To me, it seems that Z’s statement confirms that he may have seen something nobody else saw…the crime scene as it was originally.

Maybe I am missing something?

Mike

Sounds spot on to me. I was thinking and have thought the same regarding her starting on her side when Z last saw her. Good post.

The problem with the ‘LB copycat’ theory is this: what happened to the copycat? No way someone sick enough to ape a serial killer just falls silent like that. I would’ve expected more murders from this guy.

The problem with the ‘LB copycat’ theory is this: what happened to the copycat? No way someone sick enough to ape a serial killer just falls silent like that. I would’ve expected more murders from this guy.

Considering there were murders all over the place, could be (if it was someone other than Zodiac) they did continue to murder…or just went back to Napa State.

The only Hoax is the one Thomas Horan perpetrates when he sells a book. Law Enforcement, including the FBI, consider at least a group of crimes and letters
are connected to the same killer, and we don’t have everything they do. It could be more than one person involved, but only one person wrote the letters.
Could there have been more than one guy at LHR? yes. At BRS, Mageau only reports one man, but someone could have been with Z. Only one guy reported at LB and SF.
Someone to brag to, to plan with, hell yes. IMO his parents may have known who he was…

To me, it seems that Z’s statement confirms that he may have seen something nobody else saw…the crime scene as it was originally.
Maybe I am missing something?
Mike

Mike, first, she was shot dead. Dead dead. Through the heart the autopsy says, so nope, no small spark of life left. Nada. Dead.
Now, could her body have moved so that she was face down after he left? Welllll, yes, maybe.
Is it likely, since her left arm is under her body and her left knee is raised? Noooooooo, it’s not very likely.
Try it for yourself. Lie down on the carpet, start on your right side, put your arms where you think hers might have had to be. Roll around. It’s illuminating. (Don’t let anyone see through the windows, or have your wife walk in on you. It may make life difficult.)

Could one of the first responders have moved her before they covered her up? Is that a recovery position she’s in? Well, nearly. Maybe that happened. Maybe one of the first guys on the team saw her on her side and rolled her face down (!! – eventually – who knows ??) into "recovery". Maybe.
BUT BUT BUT, even if that did happen, that’s not really the point.

The point is – the person who wrote that letter knew that the police report contradicted the newspaper account.
That the police report contained information which would – if checked against the stuff that the newspaper already knew and had published – add to the writer’s status with a fact in the police report.

Eh?

Here’s what we know about the murders, not many people had access to the police reports, and likely only had info from what they read in the papers. That could help rule out people, as to whether they were really at that crime scene or not that night. But it does NOT rule out Z, and only strengthens his claim that he was indeed there. Stella Borges found the bodies,and immediately recognized that Betty was on her side. Stella raced off to get help and police arrived back a few minutes later finding her face down. The crime scene pics, and chalk outlone the next day would all likely indicate that she was face down, but only a few people(including the killer)would know she was on her side originally. I think that Betty was barely alive and on her side when Stella found her,and when Stella left for help, Betty died,and fell over face down. Could somebody who had access to police reports been Zodiac? Sure,but isn’t it likely thathe simply really was there,and knew the facts because he was there?

Could somebody who had access to police reports been Zodiac? Sure,but isn’t it likely thathe simply really was there,and knew the facts because he was there?

It certainly is the simplest, most logical explanation.

At risk of repeating myself – and I’m no doctor of course – if you shoot someone right through the heart, they’s dead. People don’t roll about much after death. Keeping still is the traditional reaction.
The autopsy report says "A bullet would penetrates from right to left through both atrium".
http://www.zodiackiller.com/BLJAutopsyReport.html
You guys haven’t rolled around on the office floor trying this out? (I’m beginning to think that maybe I’m a little bit strange. So are my workmates.)

This one item doesn’t rule out there being a single attacker at all four crime scenes. Nope. You need to look a little further, before the wood becomes seperate from the trees. I’ve enjoyed the simple and logical explanation for a long time too! At times (like considering Berryessa) I miss it desperately.

At risk of repeating myself – and I’m no doctor of course – if you shoot someone right through the heart, they’s dead. People don’t roll about much after death. Keeping still is the traditional reaction.
The autopsy report says "A bullet would penetrates from right to left through both atrium".
http://www.zodiackiller.com/BLJAutopsyReport.html
You guys haven’t rolled around on the office floor trying this out? (I’m beginning to think that maybe I’m a little bit strange. So are my workmates.)

This one item doesn’t rule out there being a single attacker at all four crime scenes. Nope. You need to look a little further, before the wood becomes seperate from the trees. I’ve enjoyed the simple and logical explanation for a long time too! At times (like considering Berryessa) I miss it desperately.

I would imagine the person who shot them high-tailed it out of there. Could simply be she did fall on her right side, and as she bled out and her body ultimately succumbed, she fell flat.

I think it’s not out of the realm of possibility.

Tahoe – you’ve seen the shot of her face down with her left leg bent at the knee, right?
I think a better debate might be whether the witness was right in what she said four days after the fact, about how Betty Lou looked…..?
And perhaps why that diagram of her shows her on her right side…..?
(If no-one wants to give the answers about Berryessa that is!)

Smithy, you’re not the only only doing ‘body testing’. I’m not myself but TF roped her daughter in once to test something regarding Cheri Jo’s crossed legs/feet.

Anywho. Back to poor Betty Lou. I think there may be misconception about exactly what ‘on her right side’ means in the context of the events. Smithy, what you are thinking through in regards transitioning from being on your side to being face down and how that accounts for the raised leg and the arm underneath IMO isn’t relevant in this situation. You see if you are dead/not moving then getting from being on your right side to the position that we see Betty Lou in IS a problem.

Betty Lou WAS moving though. She was possibly and most likely running, so there’s forward momentum. If you look at the autopsy photograph the 5 shots are clustered on the RIGHT side of her upper body so that impact is also going to add a twist, it’s going to cause her upper half to turn to the right. I suggest that as she went down her upper half turned more than her legs and her legs were most likely in the position we see them in when she hit the ground. Her upper half however was probably more ‘turned’ so she wasn’t on her face hence the claim ‘on her right side’ but then he adds ‘feet’ to the west which is possibly a little clue here. The feet are both turned due to her lying position and both pointing the same way, West I imagine. So. it may have been more accurate for Z to have said ‘on her right side BUT WITH her feet facing west’ making it more clear that the distinction here is that her upper half was on its right side but her lower half was less turned causing both feet to face west. She was ‘mostly’ on her side but not completely.

Now with that in mind I have no problem accepting that once she was down and he had already taken the ‘pen light’ off her (remember our boy doesn’t check as a habit he just leaves) that the weight of the twisted lower half with the raised leg could have pulled her upper half round to a more flat position and her arm then being under her body is consistent with that happening.

Tahoe – you’ve seen the shot of her face down with her left leg bent at the knee, right?
I think a better debate might be whether the witness was right in what she said four days after the fact, about how Betty Lou looked…..?
And perhaps why that diagram of her shows her on her right side…..?
(If no-one wants to give the answers about Berryessa that is!)

Yes.

After looking at the photo of her covered in the blanket, it looks like she coule be face-up. Is it written somewhere in the police report (that I missed) she was covered while face down?

Seems she was probably photographed, then they simply rolled her onto her back to check for vitals? Certainly guesses on my part…it’s hard to tell of course or we wouldn’t be questioning it.

Hi-

Smithy, I’m not feeling ya this time. I don’t get it. I feel like I might be missing something. It’s going right over my head. Or yours.

Let’s say there is NO conspiracy and a man who called himself Zodiac in fact saw Betty Lou Jensen lying on her right side when he left the crime scene. How does him later contradicting the police reports prove there was a conspiracy?

I’m missing it!

Mike

Hi-

Without getting into conspiracies or lack thereof, Z stating something that nobody else apparently saw, like BLJ lying on her right side when he was at the scene, reminds me of something else. When Z was asked to provide more proof that he was the killer, he boasted about his electric gun sight and said that the info could be verified by the Vallejo cops. Well, that was an odd thing to say because light does not leave any traces. How would the cops, or anyone but F and J, have known if such were the case? There is no way, other than Z’s word, to know if he did or did not use the flashlight gun sight.

But what the statement about BLJ lying on her right side and the electronic gun sight statement both reek of to me is that he didn’t care what you thought or what the papers said, this is how it was and he knows because he was "the one who did it."

Mike