"Welsh, this part of the forum is about Z being left or right handed, not about Zs motives."

Q.T, What are you telling me for? Please scroll up the page and tell me who it was that stated "The way to solve a murder is determining the motive which should greatly narrow down the number of suspects."
I was simply responding.

Welsh Chappie,
You weren’t responding rather nicely was our point.
No need to jump on QT, as well.

Victor, grow up and stop trying to create allies to try and give strength to your point. And why do you presume to speak for Q.T and assume to know what he/she meant by the comment so you can say it was ‘our point’? "No need to jump on QT, as well." Lol. Try all you want to claim I ‘jumped all over’ Q.T, the members here are quite capable seeing through your idiotic agenda by simply reading what I said to Q.T, and deciding for themselves if I ‘jumped all over’ anyone. "Q.T, What are you telling me for?" That is called a question, Victor. "Please scroll up the page and tell me who it was that stated…" I jumped all over Q.T by politely asking ‘please’. Monster!! If Q.T felt offended by my comment/question I am quite sure Q.T would have told me him/herself and doesn’t need you to speak on his/her behalf and decide whether he/she is offended. It is quite obvious to me, considering Q.T did not make any comment or reference to being offended/hurt or harassed by anything I said and so you took it upon yourself to decide for him/her that he/she was offended, that you have come here to this website with an agenda. But don’t worry, I have been made aware that others at this site have noticed this also, and that the powers that be are watching!

I am pretty sure one of the detectives confirmed he was sitting in the front seat. You know you read so many police and fbi reports that at some point they run together. So I don’t remember which detective but one of the main ones specifically addressed this topic and said he was for sure in the front seat. If necessary I can find the information.

Yes, Toschi said the assailant at the Presidio sat in the front seat when picked up downtown, I’ve read, (not in the reports). but does that necessarily make him right-handed? Nope, not really.
The door at Berryessa makes him appear right-handed I think. Trav and I kicked that around a while back, the idea of the guy hanging on to the door handle with his left hand and writing the message with his right hand. *shrug*

Well, I think Victor is right with what he said…morf, what do you think? DD

QT

Yes, Toschi said the assailant at the Presidio sat in the front seat when picked up downtown, I’ve read, (not in the reports). but does that necessarily make him right-handed? Nope, not really.
The door at Berryessa makes him appear right-handed I think. Trav and I kicked that around a while back, the idea of the guy hanging on to the door handle with his left hand and writing the message with his right hand. *shrug*

lol…yes…he sat in the front seat so he must have been right-handed!

Did they find prints of a stranger on Bryan’s door handle? If not, I don’t think the guy needed to hold on to it. Could he have? Sure…

If you look at the crime scene photos one of them clearly shows that the car was quite close to a fence. IF he didn’t use anything to steady himself I wonder if he brushed against that. Makes no difference now though, might have at the time for fiber evidence.

As for being right handed, I’m pretty sure he was for various reasons and to clarify the ‘stuff’ Smithy and myself kicked around, it was to do with the distortion on the lower part of the message which suggested to me that he was reaching and could have held the handle. In light of the fence being so close it maybe adds to that idea given that there wasn’t much room to maybe shuffle so leaning would have been the option. Perhaps though the distortion is telling us that he didn’t steady himself – "better hurry up, I’m gonna fall over. The distortion moves from left to right so it’s highly likely it was written with the right hand. by distortion I mean the opening up and widening of the characters and the spaces as you move from top left to bottom right ending in that very open ‘e’. Given the position of the car and where Z would have to be to write it, using his left hand I would have expected a closing of the spaces and the characters because as he neared the end his body would have impeded the writing arm (remember, no room to shuffle and no mention of ground disturbances to suggest that).

Also Smithy, if you remember that we discussed whether he hunkered down or just bent over to write it. He hunkered down, again the fence, it wouldn’t have allowed the space to lean over, unless of course he pushed it back with his big murdering ass. There’s never been any mention of that kind of disturbance either though.

Trav – I don’t remember mention of the fence. I’m getting old.
What fence?

Ah. The fence here – which I thought was a couple of posts and not a fence.

They moved the car before they took that first photo? Away from the fence? Well, I shall be a son of a gun, indubitably.
I wonder – did they move the VW forward – away from the footprints that Detective Harold "Hal" Snook is so helpfully pointing at in that second phtograph – and closer to the fence? That might explain what looks like a fluid (maybe an oil) leak, running away to the left of the picture, coming from about where the rear-engined VW would have been sited. Perhaps.

We may never know eh? As per bloomin’ usual.

Now I think I’m getting old. Well, I am actually. I could have sworn I’d seen a clearer picture but yup, from those images they could just be posts. I’ve definitely got an image in my head and a memory from somewhere of thinking, oh wow, didn’t realize there was a fence and that the car was so close.

The ‘oil spill’ I can help with, its not an oil spill, it’s a tow rope. Annoyingly I know this because the images on ‘This is the zodiac speaking’ on finchers movie blu-ray are hi res and I paused at that photo and it’s clearly a rope. I say annoyingly because my blu-ray disc of Zodiac has stopped working so I can’t check that source to see if there is a fence.

EDIT: morf, didn’t you get the blu-ray recently, could you check if that’s a fence, if it’s visible?

EDIT: Ok I’m not so sure now, maybe I made it up. Must have assumed it was a fence and it was closer.

When I was younger (1988 or so), the fence was still there…more like a wire/barbed-wire rickety old thing. Parts were missing or had been stepped on, etc.

Yay!!, Thanks T.

I haven’t gone completely mad…yet. I must have seen something because I had a memory of barbed wire, hence the thought that he might have snagged on it.

As for his writing I read where left handed people tend to write there alphabet letters leaning towards the right. You see a lot of that in Zodiacs writing.

I dunno, Stitch. I’m right handed, and my handwriting tends to tilt to the right, too, especially when I’m writing at high speed.

Not so sure either. I’m left handed but like Nacht, when I write at speed it leans right but not when I’m writing at normal pace. Wasn’t there something about the possibility that he wrote the letters at speed to add more disguise? Was that LE’s comments or did ‘one of us people’ speculate that at some point in history?

Just reporting what I read and think it means each alphabet letter leans toward the right which you see in most of Zodiac writings, Zodaic’s whole paragraphs in some letters also lean towards the bottom right but don’t think that’s what they mean. That said I’m sure some right handed people may do this as well but more likely from a left handed person from what I read.

A person can be right handed and still shoot someone on the left side of their head, as in the David Faraday case. The shooter would have been standing on the left side of David.
In the Paul Stine case, it was determined that the shooter was in the front seat, (Toschi had always believed that) Zodiac could have held the gun in his right hand and still put it next to Paul’s head, it is not that hard to do from the passenger seat, you just need to turn your body slightly. If the bloody print was on the post between the front drivers side of the cab, then I am guessing the Z touched it with his left hand to pull Paul’s body with his right hand, or he braced himself with his left to then wipe down the cab with his right hand. I believe Zodiac was ambidextrous but favors his right hand.

The picture shown of Hartnell’s car and the two officers standing next to it, shows that there was plenty of room for Zodiac to stoop down to write on the door. The angel of that other picture, only looks as if it was closer than it was to the wire fence.
Knoxville road was widened after 1969.