Thanks glurk. Highly entertaining.

sorry if this has been covered, but what year are those red rider comics from?

U can see in this link :https://archive.org/details/RedRyderComicBooks
http://www.mycomicshop.com/search?TID=192941%20

From what I saw and I did go to the fifties I think!

Marcelo Leandro

thanks, the actual comic that references by fire, by gun, etc is from july 1952 and deals with the "man of a thousand faces"

Yes, that information is cunningly contained in page 1 of this thread; I thought it was Marclean’s "Daisy’s Red Ryder Gun Book" we were trying to date.
Obviously I’m no detective.

There’s a thread around here someplace – I think it was 1953, but my memory isn’t what it was.
Re: brands used as 340 encryption characters, the cipher actually says:
"Cow, Cow, Cow, Cow…." (so on until the finish) then?
I’m not sure I’ve understood this.

Interesting….i started that thread. From what I have found, every single character Z used in his ciphers is a brand. So, from your infinite knowledge on the case please tell me what the ciphers say, or even link me to anyone else that has been able to find every character used in his ciphers in any fashion.

Sorry, but I have put considerable research into finding where the cipher characters came from and have no doubt they are brands.

While I am sure you are some respected Z researcher in some way, to act as if the brand finding is nothing tells me you are either stuck on your own theory with blinders or are of an ignorant mindset that is unable to think outside the box.

And no….nowhere in my thread did I say a cipher read Cow, cow, cow, cow. I stated that Z used livestock brands for his ciphers since there are thousands of them and without his personal brand book we will likely never decipher his codes.

Hi vc. For a moment, I’ll assume you are correct and these are brands. I’m not sure how this helps us get closer to a solution to the cipher. What sort of "key" are you suggesting might be found in this personal book? After 45 years, I’m fairly convinced that this is more than a homophonic cipher so I wouldn’t expect a symbol to letter correlation to be found in such a book, if it exists. What info would you expect to find?

Hi vc. For a moment, I’ll assume you are correct and these are brands. I’m not sure how this helps us get closer to a solution to the cipher. What sort of "key" are you suggesting might be found in this personal book? After 45 years, I’m fairly convinced that this is more than a homophonic cipher so I wouldn’t expect a symbol to letter correlation to be found in such a book, if it exists. What info would you expect to find?

I’m not saying there is a symbol to letter correlation. I simply think his cipher is written in brand language, which if studied for a bit of time, it is obvious how complicated it can be. I think Z either had a personal/passed down livestock brand book or a collection of them from different states. I am not looking at the code to try to figure out who Z is/was….i am looking at it as a connection to Z. If a particular ranch hand can be traced to a few ranches based off of the symbols used then a connection can be made to Z.

I don’t really care to solve the cipher nor do I believe it can be solved without whatever key Z used to write them….my guess is that it is written in the brand book he used to write the ciphers….that or it could even be connected to the whatever letter of the first or last name of the brand owner at the time which allows multiple letter to be substituted for any number of symbols. I don’t think there is any rhyme or reason to it that can be figured out.

The livestock brand connection is as solid as anything I have read on Z…..I have found and posted all the oddball symbols he used….the simple forward and backward letters are very commonplace with brands and are in almost every state brand book. The oddballs are the ones I have had to search to find and all were in use WELL before Z wrote his ciphers and nothing else I have found has all of his symbols within a certain "language" as brands do.

Hell….it could be something as simple as knowing how to read brands, which there is a specific way to read them. Fact is, nobody has delved deep into this to see….everyone is so caught up in common decipher methods and thiking they can crack it with a computer program or whatever, when it could be as simple as the first letter or last letter of each word used to read a particular brand. Such as a lazy F….maybe he used the "L" or the "Y" from lazy and so on…..there are so many combinations it is truly boggling. In this case there is no sunstitution that could be used….you would have to know how to read a brand, or again, it could be the third letter of the original brand owners name….who knows, but is obviously not a simple substitution for any of them.

Hi vc. For a moment, I’ll assume you are correct and these are brands. I’m not sure how this helps us get closer to a solution to the cipher. What sort of "key" are you suggesting might be found in this personal book? After 45 years, I’m fairly convinced that this is more than a homophonic cipher so I wouldn’t expect a symbol to letter correlation to be found in such a book, if it exists. What info would you expect to find?

I’m not saying there is a symbol to letter correlation. I simply think his cipher is written in brand language, which if studied for a bit of time, it is obvious how complicated it can be. I think Z either had a personal/passed down livestock brand book or a collection of them from different states. I am not looking at the code to try to figure out who Z is/was….i am looking at it as a connection to Z. If a particular ranch hand can be traced to a few ranches based off of the symbols used then a connection can be made to Z.

I don’t really care to solve the cipher nor do I believe it can be solved without whatever key Z used to write them….my guess is that it is written in the brand book he used to write the ciphers….that or it could even be connected to the whatever letter of the first or last name of the brand owner at the time which allows multiple letter to be substituted for any number of symbols. I don’t think there is any rhyme or reason to it that can be figured out.

The livestock brand connection is as solid as anything I have read on Z…..I have found and posted all the oddball symbols he used….the simple forward and backward letters are very commonplace with brands and are in almost every state brand book. The oddballs are the ones I have had to search to find and all were in use WELL before Z wrote his ciphers and nothing else I have found has all of his symbols within a certain "language" as brands do.

Hell….it could be something as simple as knowing how to read brands, which there is a specific way to read them. Fact is, nobody has delved deep into this to see….everyone is so caught up in common decipher methods and thiking they can crack it with a computer program or whatever, when it could be as simple as the first letter or last letter of each word used to read a particular brand. Such as a lazy F….maybe he used the "L" or the "Y" from lazy and so on…..there are so many combinations it is truly boggling. In this case there is no sunstitution that could be used….you would have to know how to read a brand, or again, it could be the third letter of the original brand owners name….who knows, but is obviously not a simple substitution for any of them.

I think it is a bit of a jump to assume we can’t solve it, that he must have a brand book- I mean, these marks were found in comic books, no? Why would one think that Z didn’t get them from there as well? Being especially since that the "By Fire By Gun" bit came from the cover of a comic book? The guy read comics, at some point in his life. He certainly had a thing for dressing up in a costume and assuming a persona. Very comic-book. I think that is a shorter line to draw than "he was a ranch hand with a brand book passed down from his family and we will never solve it".

I’ve posted my thoughts on the "cattle brand connection" on the appropriate thread, over here:

viewtopic.php?f=81&t=1882&p=24035#p24035

-glurk

Hi vc. For a moment, I’ll assume you are correct and these are brands. I’m not sure how this helps us get closer to a solution to the cipher. What sort of "key" are you suggesting might be found in this personal book? After 45 years, I’m fairly convinced that this is more than a homophonic cipher so I wouldn’t expect a symbol to letter correlation to be found in such a book, if it exists. What info would you expect to find?

I’m not saying there is a symbol to letter correlation. I simply think his cipher is written in brand language, which if studied for a bit of time, it is obvious how complicated it can be. I think Z either had a personal/passed down livestock brand book or a collection of them from different states. I am not looking at the code to try to figure out who Z is/was….i am looking at it as a connection to Z. If a particular ranch hand can be traced to a few ranches based off of the symbols used then a connection can be made to Z.

I don’t really care to solve the cipher nor do I believe it can be solved without whatever key Z used to write them….my guess is that it is written in the brand book he used to write the ciphers….that or it could even be connected to the whatever letter of the first or last name of the brand owner at the time which allows multiple letter to be substituted for any number of symbols. I don’t think there is any rhyme or reason to it that can be figured out.

The livestock brand connection is as solid as anything I have read on Z…..I have found and posted all the oddball symbols he used….the simple forward and backward letters are very commonplace with brands and are in almost every state brand book. The oddballs are the ones I have had to search to find and all were in use WELL before Z wrote his ciphers and nothing else I have found has all of his symbols within a certain "language" as brands do.

Hell….it could be something as simple as knowing how to read brands, which there is a specific way to read them. Fact is, nobody has delved deep into this to see….everyone is so caught up in common decipher methods and thiking they can crack it with a computer program or whatever, when it could be as simple as the first letter or last letter of each word used to read a particular brand. Such as a lazy F….maybe he used the "L" or the "Y" from lazy and so on…..there are so many combinations it is truly boggling. In this case there is no sunstitution that could be used….you would have to know how to read a brand, or again, it could be the third letter of the original brand owners name….who knows, but is obviously not a simple substitution for any of them.

I think it is a bit of a jump to assume we can’t solve it, that he must have a brand book- I mean, these marks were found in comic books, no? Why would one think that Z didn’t get them from there as well? Being especially since that the "By Fire By Gun" bit came from the cover of a comic book? The guy read comics, at some point in his life. He certainly had a thing for dressing up in a costume and assuming a persona. Very comic-book. I think that is a shorter line to draw than "he was a ranch hand with a brand book passed down from his family and we will never solve it".

No…the symbols are not in comic books. And how is it a jump to assume it can’t be solved? It’s been over 40 years of trying the same stuff and it hasn’t been done. Some of the best code breakers have worked on it and many here have built programs on it, yet nothing has solved it. I think it is more of a jump to assume there isn’t a book out there that has a code written in it and that Z came up with a cipher all in his own head that has yet to be broken.

IF Zodiac were not responsible for the Halloween card, none of it would be useful. …I know, I know.

IF Zodiac were not responsible for the Halloween card, none of it would be useful. …I know, I know.

Are you sure you don’t mean this Trav?

In my humble opinion, the connection of "By Fire, By Gun, Knife By, By Rope" is 100%, how likely is such a similarity with Halloween Card. ??! ! I imagine the crazy Z was these comics reader, and was a avid reader of other things was used (its insane way of seeing the world) to build their code.
It’s good to see several ways of solving a problem, and even that parallel ideas in the "attack" in varied shapes can find a "loophole" that nobody saw today.
Damn, do not know if I could express myself.
Anyway hope someone decipher what I tried to talk now.

Marcelo

Interesting….i started that thread. From what I have found, every single character Z used in his ciphers is a brand. So, from your infinite knowledge on the case please tell me what the ciphers say, or even link me to anyone else that has been able to find every character used in his ciphers in any fashion.

Sorry, but I have put considerable research into finding where the cipher characters came from and have no doubt they are brands.

While I am sure you are some respected Z researcher in some way, to act as if the brand finding is nothing tells me you are either stuck on your own theory with blinders or are of an ignorant mindset that is unable to think outside the box.

And no….nowhere in my thread did I say a cipher read Cow, cow, cow, cow. I stated that Z used livestock brands for his ciphers since there are thousands of them and without his personal brand book we will likely never decipher his codes.

Vesa,

I wasn’t going to do to this just yet but I really think I have reached my limit.

I can tell you that the cipher symbols, as well as the symbol with 4 dots" are no more "cattle brands" than I am the missing Jimmy Hoffa. He is much older, far more unattractive and of the male species for me to be him and thus the symbols to be "cattle brands".

I know that you asked Smithy to provide you with a link that shows "anyone else that has been able to find every character used in his ciphers in any fashion", but, I think I would like to take the helm on this. I really do not like your level of arrogance and the way that you talk to people. No one here deserves your attitude.

Now I am not at my personal computer and so I cant just copy and paste. I could just simply tell you but, then again, seeing is believing. I have identified what i feel is 26 of 30 "unique" cipher symbols. A couple (something like two or three) are, admittedly, debatable. But the rest are there with no doubts about it. I will do my best to post this information before the end of the day but dont be surprised if it takes until this time tomorrow. I will provide you with the publication number concerning each one so that you can see for yourself. No need to stress yourself about having to view 26 different locations because there are approximately only 5 pages to view and all from one source.

And by the way, you may or may not have said "cow, cow, cow" but it was pretty darn funny.

Soze