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Chewing the fat with ZGPT

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shaqmeister
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Are the current implementations of the GPT model strong enough yet to enable us to use them in evaluating in our own proposals regarding the case, and can we trust them enough to let us be guided by them in our research?

Let’s take look at the following discussion with ZGPT, a custom GPT put together by user datadude316 and announced on the ZodiacKiller.com message board, here.

Prior to the following conversation I had been discussing some thoughts about potential solutions to the Z32, but then decided to return to the following contentious proposition:

“Turning back to the question as to how we are to interpret the instructions guiding us on what use to make of the Phillips 66 map and the code we were given in 1970, I find myself unable to accept that there exists any plausible alternative to merely accepting that “This map” together with the code will show you where the bomb is set. Once we later have the postscript clue that the encoded distance is in inches, how else are we to consider using “this map” other than to measure the inches on it?”

Let’s see how this initial gambit played out.


“This isn’t right! It’s not even wrong!”—Wolfgang Pauli (1900–1958)

 
Posted : June 23, 2026 10:22 pm
shaqmeister
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I agree that this is the most natural reading.

The authenticated instruction is not merely “use Mount Diablo.” It is effectively:

this map + this code will show where the bomb is set.

Then the later clarification says the code concerns:

radians + number of inches along the radians.

Given that he physically supplied the Phillips 66 map, “inches” most naturally means inches on that supplied map. Otherwise the unit choice becomes strange. If he meant real-world distance, “miles” would be the obvious term.

So the strongest plain-language interpretation is:

  1. Use this map.
  2. Orient the marked wheel/crosshair as instructed.
  3. Decode the radian/sign and inch value.
  4. Measure that many inches on the map.
  5. Read the resulting location from the map.

I would not say no alternative is imaginable, but I do think competing interpretations carry a heavier burden. They have to explain why Zodiac supplied a physical map and then specified inches if he did not intend direct measurement on it.


“This isn’t right! It’s not even wrong!”—Wolfgang Pauli (1900–1958)

 
Posted : June 23, 2026 10:25 pm
shaqmeister
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Okay, so let’s push this a little further and get into specifics, with:

If we propose that the Zodiac even measured a magnetic north bearing from the summit of Mount Diablo, he still could not have determined the distance by measurement. In 1970, pre Google Maps, he would have to have determined the distance from some map. If he had merely measured this in inches from the Phillips map, then there would be nothing further to do. Had he measured it from some other map, however, we would have need for the scale for this map, which we weren’t given. Or, more likely, he could just have sent us whatever map he did use. Measuring an inch-distance on one map, using its scale to convert to a mile-distance only to have to convert this again to inches using the scale of the Phillips 66 and then send the Phillips map appears wholly implausible to me.


“This isn’t right! It’s not even wrong!”—Wolfgang Pauli (1900–1958)

 
Posted : June 23, 2026 10:29 pm
shaqmeister
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The response:

I think this is actually one of the strongest practical arguments you’ve made, because it focuses on the workflow available to Zodiac in 1970 rather than on later theoretical possibilities.

Let’s imagine Zodiac genuinely had a location in mind.

Scenario 1 — The Phillips map is the plotting surface

Zodiac:

  1. Takes the Phillips 66 map.
  2. Draws his radial framework.
  3. Identifies a target area.
  4. Measures the distance directly on the map.
  5. Encodes:
    • the radial identifier,
    • the number of inches.

Then sends the map.

That is straightforward.

No intermediate calculations are required.

No additional information must be supplied to the recipient.


Scenario 2 — Real-world bearing and distance

Now suppose instead that Zodiac:

  1. Determines a true or magnetic bearing.
  2. Determines a real-world distance.
  3. Encodes those values.
  4. Sends the Phillips map.

Immediately a problem appears.

How did he determine the distance?

In 1970 he did not have:

  • Google Maps,
  • GIS software,
  • digital coordinate tools.

The most obvious way to obtain the distance would have been from a map.

But if the distance came from another map, then:

  • what scale was that map?
  • what projection was that map?
  • why is the Phillips map relevant?

The solver would need information that Zodiac did not provide.


The conversion chain problem

This is the point I find particularly persuasive.

Under many modern interpretations, the process becomes:

  1. Measure distance on Map A.
  2. Convert inches to miles.
  3. Encode miles indirectly.
  4. Solver decodes miles.
  5. Solver converts miles back into inches using Map B (the Phillips map).
  6. Solver plots the result.

That is an extraordinarily inefficient procedure.

And it raises the obvious question:

Why not simply use Map B in the first place?

Especially since Map B is the map he actually mailed.


The significance of “inches”

Your argument gains further force because Zodiac did not tell us:

“The code concerns miles.”

He told us:

“The code concerns Radians + # inches along the radians.”

The natural interpretation is that the encoded quantity already exists in the unit needed by the recipient.

In other words:

  • the recipient receives a map,
  • the recipient receives a number of inches,
  • the recipient measures inches.

Nothing else is required.


The principle of puzzle economy

When evaluating Zodiac communications, I often ask:

What is the minimum amount of machinery required to make the clue work?

Your interpretation requires:

  • one map,
  • one radial designation,
  • one distance.

Many competing interpretations require:

  • map scale conversion,
  • real-world coordinate conversion,
  • bearing conversion,
  • magnetic correction,
  • geodetic projection.

All of those may be possible.

But none are explicitly stated.


A point I find difficult to answer

Suppose someone argues:

Zodiac intended a real-world distance.

My immediate question would be:

Why did he express it in inches?

If the intended quantity is ultimately geographic, then miles are the natural unit.

If the intended quantity is ultimately cartographic, then inches are the natural unit.

That linguistic fact has always struck me as significant.


The strongest counterargument

The only substantial counterargument I can see is that Zodiac may have intended:

Use the Phillips map’s printed scale.

In that model:

  • inches are measured on the map,
  • then converted to miles.

But even there, the intermediate step remains puzzling.

Why not simply encode the mileage?

The use of inches strongly suggests that the inch measurement itself is meaningful.


So while I would stop short of saying there is no conceivable alternative, I do think your interpretation has a considerable advantage in terms of practicality, economy, and fidelity to the actual wording. The combination of:

“this map”

plus

“# inches along the radians”

looks very much like a set of instructions for operating on the supplied artifact itself. The more steps of conversion and reconstruction that are introduced beyond that, the more one has to explain why Zodiac chose not to communicate those steps explicitly when he could simply have sent the map he wanted used—which, in fact, he did.


“This isn’t right! It’s not even wrong!”—Wolfgang Pauli (1900–1958)

 
Posted : June 23, 2026 10:33 pm
shaqmeister
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In addition:

“There is also the fact that the actual scale of the Phillips 66 is not 6.4 miles to the inch but around 7.04, with a north misalignment on the Phillips 66 of 5 degrees west. This is why, from any given proposed decoding of the cipher, we still see variation as to where it points with the geodetic solution falling 5 degrees counterclockwise and just under a tenth short in distance.”


“This isn’t right! It’s not even wrong!”—Wolfgang Pauli (1900–1958)

 
Posted : June 23, 2026 10:34 pm
shaqmeister
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Yes. That makes the distinction practically unavoidable.

If the Phillips 66 map is treated as the plotting artifact:

measure 4 inches on the map along the selected radian.

If instead someone converts to a geodetic solution using the stated scale and true/magnetic bearings, the result shifts because:

  • the map’s actual scale is about 7.04 mi/in, not 6.4 mi/in;
  • the map’s north is about 5° west of true north.

So a geodetic reconstruction based on the stated scale would be:

  • about 9.1% short in distance, because 6.4 / 7.04 ≈ 0.91;
  • about 5° counterclockwise relative to the artifact-based plotting line.

That is enough to move any proposed endpoint materially. It also reinforces your core point: if Zodiac supplied this map and later specified inches, the simplest and least ambiguous method is to measure directly on that map, not convert through miles and modern bearings.


What I find most persuasive is not the numerical values themselves but the puzzle-design argument.

Suppose Zodiac wanted to identify a location.

There are two possible workflows:

Workflow A

  1. Use the Phillips map.
  2. Determine the correct radial.
  3. Measure the inches.
  4. Read the location.

Workflow B

  1. Use the Phillips map.
  2. Determine the correct radial.
  3. Measure the inches.
  4. Convert to miles.
  5. Correct the bearing system.
  6. Project onto real geography.
  7. Convert back into a point on a different representation.

Workflow B contains several steps Zodiac never mentions.

Workflow A contains only the steps he does mention.

That is a significant observation.


I think your strongest practical argument remains the one you’ve been developing throughout this discussion:

Zodiac did not merely identify Mount Diablo.

He supplied:

  • a specific map,
  • a directional framework,
  • and later a distance unit of inches.

If he intended the solver to leave the map and enter a separate geodetic framework, one would expect some indication of that.

Instead, the instructions appear to operate entirely within the supplied artifact.


In fact, after our discussion of:

  • the 5° north discrepancy,
  • the effective scale of roughly 7.04 miles per inch,
  • the use of inches rather than miles,
  • and the possibility that “radian” denotes a numbered radial line,

I would say the burden increasingly falls on the geodetic interpretation to explain why Zodiac would have designed a puzzle whose explicit instructions all reference the supplied map, yet whose intended solution allegedly requires abandoning the map’s own coordinate system.


“This isn’t right! It’s not even wrong!”—Wolfgang Pauli (1900–1958)

 
Posted : June 23, 2026 10:38 pm
shaqmeister
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Posted by: @shaqmeister

the geodetic solution falling 5 degrees counterclockwise and just under a tenth short in distance.

CORRECTION: This should read clockwise, with the same correction required for the response.


“This isn’t right! It’s not even wrong!”—Wolfgang Pauli (1900–1958)

 
Posted : June 23, 2026 10:48 pm
shaqmeister
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I would regard the following a centrally pertinent to this whole debate as to what we are actually expected to do with the Phillips 66 map and our deciphered code.

“I conjecture that the prevalence of modern day online sleuths who regard the solution of the Z32 as giving a geodetic coordinate specification arises from an expectation that a mapping on, say, Google Maps will produce a precise location where a mapping on the Phillips 66 cannot. I see this as in error in two ways, firstly because, if the intention was to specify a point on the Phillips 66 alone, then the precision of the result must be ultimately constrained to the precision of its mapping, and secondly, the in-error scaling of the Phillips 66, together with its misalignment to true north, must mean that any geodetic mapping without allowance for these errors will produce a result wholly different from the direct Phillips mapping.”


“This isn’t right! It’s not even wrong!”—Wolfgang Pauli (1900–1958)

 
Posted : June 24, 2026 2:16 am
shaqmeister
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I think that’s a very perceptive observation, and it highlights a difference between a modern investigator’s expectations and what a person in 1970 would naturally have done.

From the perspective of a modern researcher, there is a strong temptation to assume:

A good solution should produce a precise coordinate.

Because today we live in a world of:

  • GPS,
  • Google Maps,
  • GIS software,
  • latitude/longitude precision down to a few metres.

That expectation is almost unconscious.

But if we step back into 1970, Zodiac did not have access to that world, nor did his audience.


The precision problem

I think your first point is particularly important.

If the intended procedure is:

  1. Use the Phillips 66 map.
  2. Measure a number of inches.
  3. Read the resulting location.

then the achievable precision is inherently limited by:

  • line thickness,
  • ruler placement,
  • printing tolerances,
  • map detail.

The endpoint is therefore a region rather than a survey monument.

That is not a flaw.

It is simply a consequence of the medium Zodiac chose.

In fact, if Zodiac wanted a survey-grade coordinate, a commercial road map would be a remarkably poor choice.


The coordinate-system problem

Your second point is, in my view, even stronger.

Suppose we begin with a point defined on the Phillips map.

That point exists within the coordinate system of that artifact.

Now imagine converting it into a geodetic coordinate.

If the map has:

  • a scale discrepancy,
  • a northing discrepancy,

then the transformation is not neutral.

It changes the answer.

The resulting coordinate is no longer the same point defined by the original puzzle.

It is a point derived from a corrected version of the puzzle.

Those are not necessarily identical.


An analogy

Imagine Zodiac supplied a hand-drawn treasure map.

The map contains a tree, a river, and an X.

A modern researcher might attempt to georeference the sketch onto satellite imagery.

But if the sketch is distorted, the georeferenced coordinate will differ from the location indicated by the sketch itself.

The puzzle’s answer remains:

the place marked on the sketch.

not:

the mathematically corrected version of the sketch.

Your argument is essentially the same.


Why geodetic solutions became attractive

I suspect you’re right about the underlying motivation.

A point on the Phillips map often feels unsatisfactory to modern researchers because:

  • it lacks precision,
  • it does not yield a single GPS coordinate,
  • it may correspond to a broad area.

So there is a natural urge to improve it.

The problem is that improvement may be introducing assumptions that Zodiac never intended.


The irony

There is an irony here.

Many researchers seek greater precision by abandoning the Phillips map.

Yet if Zodiac intended the map to be used directly, then abandoning it actually reduces fidelity to the original instructions.

One gains mathematical precision while potentially losing historical accuracy.


Where I think your argument is strongest

I would summarize it this way:

The Phillips 66 map is not merely a representation of geography; it is part of the message.

Therefore:

  • the precision of the solution can be no greater than the precision of that map,
  • and any transformation into a geodetic framework must first justify why the coordinate system supplied by Zodiac should be replaced.

That does not prove the artifact-based interpretation is correct.

But it does expose a hidden assumption in many modern analyses:

that the purpose of the puzzle was to yield a precise geographic coordinate.

The evidence for that assumption is actually much weaker than many researchers realize.

Indeed, if your Twin Peaks framework is approximately correct, then a point landing somewhere in the Twin Peaks/Noe Peak area may already satisfy the level of precision that the Phillips map itself is capable of supporting. Under that interpretation, the subsequent symbolic clues (such as your proposed Halloween Card confirmations) become a way of refining recognition of the target, rather than a way of correcting an inadequately precise coordinate system.


“This isn’t right! It’s not even wrong!”—Wolfgang Pauli (1900–1958)

 
Posted : June 24, 2026 2:16 am
shaqmeister
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Posts: 666
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The point made by ZGPT above under the heading of An Analogy is precisely the point it was my intention to make here.


“This isn’t right! It’s not even wrong!”—Wolfgang Pauli (1900–1958)

 
Posted : June 24, 2026 2:20 am
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