Zodiac Discussion Forum

Notifications
Clear all

Pencel flashlight

78 Posts
16 Users
0 Likes
15.8 K Views
Quicktrader
(@quicktrader)
Posts: 2598
Famed Member
Topic starter
 

Z writes that he used a ‘pencel flashlight’ attached to the ‘barrell’ of his gun.

I wonder how many people had such pencil flashlights at that time?

QT

*ZODIACHRONOLOGY*

 
Posted : July 27, 2013 1:40 pm
morf13
(@morf13)
Posts: 7527
Member Admin
 

Z writes that he used a ‘pencel flashlight’ attached to the ‘barrell’ of his gun.

I wonder how many people had such pencil flashlights at that time?

QT

If he was even telling the truth. If that worked so great, why didnt he use it at Blue Rock Springs? I think he used a flashlight in one hand,and a gun in the other,just as he did at BRS

There is more than one way to lose your life to a killer

http://www.zodiackillersite.com/
http://zodiackillersite.blogspot.com/
https://twitter.com/Morf13ZKS

 
Posted : July 27, 2013 3:01 pm
(@nachtsider)
Posts: 367
Reputable Member
 

Him using a flashlight at BRS leads me to believe that the electric gunsight worked a lot poorer than he led us to believe.

 
Posted : July 27, 2013 3:16 pm
Quicktrader
(@quicktrader)
Posts: 2598
Famed Member
Topic starter
 

Honestly? As far as I know, Z never lied at all.. Even when his bomb never came into action he explained why (rain).

I see no reason why Z should’ve lied at all and he could have used a bigger flashlight (like the four cell KJ saw in his car) at other scenes.

He described the center of the light being darker, where the bullets go.

Pencil flashlight in 1969 could have been a rare item, with this method later being used by swat teams..

QT

*ZODIACHRONOLOGY*

 
Posted : July 27, 2013 7:27 pm
ace ventura
(@ace-ventura)
Posts: 435
Honorable Member
 

Z writes that he used a ‘pencel flashlight’ attached to the ‘barrell’ of his gun.

I wonder how many people had such pencil flashlights at that time?

QT

I had one in early 70’s 71 ? it was a tin crome plated and had a swt. on the cap , alot of cops had it too I remember for looking at drivers licenses, they would stick it their mouth thus leaving the right hand or gun hand free . Yes it threw a ring of light . with new batteries it would illuminate 15-20 ft away. I think it was sold as a Ever Ready brand and the only one made/sold (alot) then. The pic is the one I had but I see on ebay Ray-O Vac had one too.

 
Posted : July 27, 2013 8:02 pm
(@stitchmallone)
Posts: 798
Prominent Member
 

If he did use the the pencil flashlight. The reason he didn’t use it again maybe a simple one and he just left it attach to his 22 since he used a different weapon in the next attack.

 
Posted : July 27, 2013 10:42 pm
Welsh Chappie
(@welsh-chappie)
Posts: 1538
Noble Member
 

Well it was Law Enforcement that went public and questioned just how the shooter could hit Betty Lou so accurately in the dark at a distance while she is a moving target. This has always been another myth of sorts, that Zodiac must have been an expert marksman. The reality is, forensics found a gun powder burn on one of the bullet holes on Betty’s dress and that seems to suggest that when Zodiac fired the first shot that hit Betty, he did so at point blank range and close enough for residue to transfer from the gun barrel and onto the clothing of Betty. She probably ran after he shot her the first time but if she was within arms reach of Zodiac when he fired the first of the shots at her, then she isn’t likely to be a hard target to hit for him so close and her trying to run away would have been in vein. I don’t know, but I would hazard a guess that Zodiac could have fired, and hit Betty, with all rounds that impacted her without moving from his standing position. I have seen theories where Zodiac is charging after Betty in te parking area and out towards the road itself. Betty never made it to the road, she went down in the area outside the gate. I wouldn’t think Zodiac would have needed to light at all, whether it be pencil slim beam of light, or regular flash light. You don’t need to light up and illuminate your target when that target is 15 inches away from you. He probably did’nt use a flashlight, but Betty had no chance of escape or avoiding the barrage of shots being despatched in her direction due to her being so close to him he could see her easily.

"So it’s sorta social. Demented and sad, but social, right?" Judd Nelson.

 
Posted : July 27, 2013 11:09 pm
Seagull
(@seagull)
Posts: 2309
Member Moderator
 

How do you know in what order the shots were fired at Betty Lou? The shot that left the gunpowder could have been delivered after she was down. There were 10 casings found.

http://www.zodiackiller.com/LHRPR6.html

Eight of those shots could be accounted for, five in Betty Lou, one in David and two into the car. That leaves two unaccounted shots fired. If Zodiac shot at Betty Lou as she was trying to get away it would more easily explain why there were two unaccounted shots and less likely that the first shot to her was at point blank range.

The drawing shows only where nine of the ten casings were found. The location of where that tenth casing was found has been the subject of discussion in the past.

http://www.zodiackiller.com/LHRPR5.html

www.santarosahitchhikermurders.com

 
Posted : July 28, 2013 12:54 am
(@nachtsider)
Posts: 367
Reputable Member
 

I’ve always been in favour of the shots with gunpowder residue being the last ones fired. Coup de grace shots, delivered after Betty was felled by the first few rounds.

 
Posted : July 28, 2013 1:53 am
Welsh Chappie
(@welsh-chappie)
Posts: 1538
Noble Member
 

Well it isn’t only the gunpower burn. There is the fact that Three bullets passed through the body of Betty, entering her back before emerging out of her fontal chest & stomach area, two other bullets hit Betty and only penetrated her body and did not exit as the other three had done. Now this can only suggest that the three shots that went through her body, we able to do so as they were fired at a much closer range giving them maximum speed and opportunity to pass right through. So, to me it’s common sense to put the three bullets passing right through and then another two only entering her body down to the laws of physics, that being the bullet will lose speed, aerodynamics and stability the more distance it travels. So either this 3 bullets passing right through vs two that did not is a X File, or it;’s because the shooter was much much closer to the target when he fired the three shots that went clean through Betty.
And Betty wouldn’t have every been a anymore than 5 to ten ft away from the Zodiac when he gunned her down because her body had fallen approx. 10 ft away from the Rambler, and was still in the pumping station gated gravel area. So, logically it seems that Zodiac would not have been required to use any lightto point out betty’s target, nor would he have ever been in danger of having to start chasing Betty because she simply did not get 10 ft away and onto Lake H Road itself.
.

As for the order of shots fired, I don’t recall claiming to know the sequence of shots fired. I did however, say I believed the gunpowder burn seemed to me the likely result of the first shot at close range. You countered this with a question "How do you know that powder burn wasn’t the result of a shot fired when she was down?" Well, because that would then mean that Zodiac stood stationary firing away at Betty with not concern for her being able to escape until the point that sees Betty fall face first onto the ground. It’s only then when she collapses an is motionless does he instantly panic and think that any second now, betty is about to escape, and so laps into action and rushes over to her slumped bullet ridden body and decides to do another thing that makes no sense if he has walked up to Betty while she’s on the ground, and he decides to make sure she is not going to be able to move and go anywhere by pumping two more shots into her back area and decides not to aim for the head as he always had done every other time, but ran over to her thinking she was planning an escape imminently and shot her two more time in an area that is not at all going to drastically increase the chance of death, or the very least even makes the victims ability to run or move no different really. If you think that is logical to do, that’s up to you. For me, it is far more logical and reasonable that the burn came from a close range opening shot, and not the result of Zodiac deciding to make sure Betty was not going to crawl anywhere and execute her by shooting her in the back, when clearly the obvious target if you were going to walk up on a downed injured person, would be the head.
All I am saying is, when you have two possible scenarios such that the two above, I think using common sense alone would say which is more likely.

If Zodiac walked up to Betty Lou as she lay felled on the concrete and decided he would finish her off with some more round of led, then it’s almost unarguable that Zodiac would have only put a bullet one place to almost make death a certainty, and that isn’t her upper back shoulder area, nore lower or middle back. He’d have shot her in the head without question for me. Every other time he’s wanted to despatch a victim with a round he aims for the head as with David F, then Zodiac himself said "I walked up and aimed the gun at the boys head at which point he leapt back spoiling my aim" so again went for the head shot, and Paul Stine, unlike the others who would have been aware that this man was trouble, Paul probably never even saw it coming or knew anything about it until it was too late.

"So it’s sorta social. Demented and sad, but social, right?" Judd Nelson.

 
Posted : July 28, 2013 4:57 am
Welsh Chappie
(@welsh-chappie)
Posts: 1538
Noble Member
 

And if Betty had a 3 second delay or there abouts from the moment she broke into spring to escape, until she the first shot rang out, then even 3 seconds as a head start would probably see Betty make it to the actual road and make Zodiac task far more difficult. He’d now have to hit a far more distant, moving target at night. Betty Lou’s autopsy report states 5 bullets were recovered from her body area, whole it then states that 4 casing were recovered at the scene. I don’t know If the are intending to suggest that these 4 specific casings belonged to 4 of the 5 bullets specifically found in Betty? But
I mean nothing is concrete and absolute. But whether others view it differently to how I would I don’t know, but I just go try and go with what seems to make the most sense and is the most reasonable of answers as to why this or that is here of there.

"So it’s sorta social. Demented and sad, but social, right?" Judd Nelson.

 
Posted : July 28, 2013 5:27 am
Welsh Chappie
(@welsh-chappie)
Posts: 1538
Noble Member
 

But as for the pencil light itself. Zodiac was never far enough away from both victims to require the aid of a early version of laser scope sighs. And there was plenty of light sources at hand that night affixed to Both Z’s vehicle, as well as the rambler. (That is assuming that Zodiac was actually in a vehicle at LHR, and not on foot). Another reason to think he’s just talking hot air about his laser scope sighting device he was again out in a dark park at BRS and not once does Zodiac have anything like that, but he simply approaches Darlene and Mike with a standard type, regular flash light that he pointed directly into mikes face & eyes (probably to blind him for several minutes). What has happened to Zodiac’s invention at BRS? I mean if the guy had really used a slim beam of light to hit Betty at LHR, then it appears to have been very successful at what it did so you would expect him to emerge from his vehicle at the Springs with this same device?

"So it’s sorta social. Demented and sad, but social, right?" Judd Nelson.

 
Posted : July 28, 2013 6:10 am
ace ventura
(@ace-ventura)
Posts: 435
Honorable Member
 

I wonder if it went as fast as blue rock Springs with David and Betty
David may have though it was Betty’s dad or some one he told to checking on them and was very scared because he knew he was in trouble for parking with her on the 1st date

 
Posted : July 28, 2013 7:20 am
Marclean
(@marcelo-leandro)
Posts: 764
Prominent Member
 

I’m liking the placement, theories about the context of the history of the infamous Zodiac. I believe he is therefore very important to some conclusions that I took and that I will study. Sorry that my English is limited but I understand a little. Congratulations Welsh Chappie, you know a lot about the subject. and with that comes the good conclusions. I like very much.
People should always start that there is a context, and it fit into many factors which should be considered for new ways to open.
Cool, I’ll ask, so understand things to try to help check and doublecheck my theory. Now I wonder if the DNA ruled ALA, is there any story that Zodiac was actually aided by others?!, (Seems script serial mentalist).Dropping Mason, which to me seems absurd
Thanks

https://zodiacode1933.blogspot.com/

 
Posted : July 28, 2013 8:55 am
Welsh Chappie
(@welsh-chappie)
Posts: 1538
Noble Member
 

Much appreciated :-)

"So it’s sorta social. Demented and sad, but social, right?" Judd Nelson.

 
Posted : July 28, 2013 12:37 pm
Page 1 / 6
Share: