I don’t think he was worried about the car being seen. No matter where he was that day, he parked somewhere–even in Bryan and Cecelia’s case. SOMEONE could have seen his car parked there. How was he so sure some wouldn’t have pulled in in the general area of where they were parked and remember a car? –Because he parked elsewhere at the time of the attack, imo. I think he simply assessed the situation and then parked it elsewhere. He wasn’t concerned about "his" car (probably didn’t even belong to him).

If you read about how he walked down around the girls, it’s almost exactly like he did with Bryan and Cecelia.

Solar Pons said it best a while back about abnormal behavior. We had THREE men all dressed generally the same way, of the same general build, acting in a far from normal behavior, lurking and watching. And this on a nice day people are sunbathing.

The fact is, this man was seen by SOMEONE that day without his hood on. If even at a glance as they drove by. We know he didn’t drive around with the hood on….so surely, he was seen that day.

I dont’ vehemently disagree with any of that, Tahoe.

Still, there’s a difference between risking being seen (which is pretty much inevitable) and hanging around and giving three people the chance to observe you over a relatively long period of time. To me this behavior only makes sense if he was considering attacking these people. And if he was, that would surprise me. The location is poor compared to the spot where Z struck. And the number of victims is clearly not ideal. His plan was to have one victim tie up the other one – to me it seems obvious that he was looking for a couple.

As for the car, you may very well be right – maybe he planned on ditching it and wasn’t concerned with anybody seeing it.

Norse, I actually have wondered the same thing, if he was going to try and kill all 3 girls. Could you imagine the attention that would get? He would have loved the attention, and media blitz that would have come. If he had done that, he might even be more infamous than he already is. I think he finally decided that too much could go wrong, and it would be hard to handle 3 screaming girls running in every direction if something went wrong. He still took a chance though, assuming Z was the man seen by the girls, by hanging out and moving on to attack Cecilia & Bryan after being witnessed by the girls. He had done that before, on Lake Herman RD- James Owen claims he drove by(if you believe him)and 20 seconds later, he hears a shot. Zodiac took a chance because Owen may have seen his plate number, etc, yet Z still decided to attack

You know, Morf – maybe he did consider attacking the girls…I have presupposed here that he hung around, in plain sight, for three quarters of an hour. But he didn’t – I have no idea where I got that from: according to the girls he stuck around for about twenty minutes – then he disappeared.

And there is definitely something Z-like about his arrival at the scene: the girls pull up at the parking lot – and this guy pulls up right behind them, overtakes them and parks right next to them. He appears suddenly, it would seem, and the impression I get is that he has been tailing the girls. He then sits in his car while they get out of theirs – apparently studying/reading something, but they get the impression he isn’t really doing that..it all sounds very plausible, and it does sound Z-like, albeit vaguely so.

So, yes – I suppose he could have been standing there, smoking, debating with himself whether to don his hood and attack those girls.

Then again, the guy could have been perfectly harmless. Just some guy who wanted to stretch his legs and have a smoke – and who didn’t mind the sight of three young ladies sunbathing. Possibly a little creepy, yes – but no more than that.

I’m not a behavioral expert but one thing that (I think) stands out about Z’s approach(s) was concealment. That and possible misdirection but I’ll get to that.

LHR. Attack at night, no street lights (I assume). Flashlight claimed as sight but either way may have also been used to dazzle.

BRS. Attack at night, some lighting, flashlight used and used to dazzle.

PH. Attack at night, street lights but attack carried out in cover (in the cab) and a point black kill shot.

This one.

LB. Attack at day. Head completely concealed. Remote location. Restraints and getting the Cecelia to tie Bryan up before he approached totally, I would suggest partly to avoid anything that would compromise his disguise.

The point is that he planned and it seems apparent that a good part of that planning involved remaining hidden, or at least not identifiable. I also suspect that he might have planned his locations based on his approaches. By planned them I mean I think he knew the locations, quite possibly having visited them prior to the attacks to assess them for approach, escape, victim availability. That’s what doesn’t seem to fit for the guy the girls seen being Z given the concealment approaches he employs.

Ok, Z’s not invisible but to sit and be observed for 20mins or so by three witnesses and then go and kill just down the road a short while later doesn’t make sense. I don’t think he would be so reckless either as to not be pre-decided as to how many victims he was looking for (and could manage) that day so I don’t see why he would be sitting watching 3 girls trying to assess the situation on the fly as it were.

He was not happy about being seen after PH and even less so that a composite was produced. That’s why I wonder about the KJ incident. It seems plausible that he ‘claimed’ that because she was so adamant that it was him based on the composite. I think he was trying to sow confusion as to it’s usefulness most likely hoping that someone would be caught for it. With the Fouke incident he also seems to want to sow confusion. Knowing that it would be most likely pointless denying it was him the police passed that night he goes the complete opposite and not only confirms but says they stopped for a little chat. More confusion.

He reacts to being seen and does it quite proactively. He even pre-empts it when he thought his car had been seen when he used the phone and the operator called back after BRS. He’s always ready to cover his bases regarding being seen and really tries not to be.

So it just seems so out of character based on his methods and reactions that the person the 3 girls saw was him.

Just my thoughts on it as best I can organize them and to see if anyone thinks they make sense lol.

Makes perfect sense to me – it is precisely what I’ve been thinking myself regarding the LB guy. Z didn’t want to be identified – he wouldn’t have taken unnecessary risks in that respect, that’s my feeling. And semi-spying (for lack of a better term) on some girls he didn’t intend to attack would have been precisely such an unnecessary risk.

But then – what if he was actually considering attacking them? As Morf suggests, that would have been a sure headline crime – it would have boosted his notoriety immensely. And the latter was what mattered most to him – I’m pretty sure of that. There’s always a combination of what looks like premeditation and what appears almost random with Z. Could he have been considering attacking those girls? Even though his plan was more likely to wait until closer to nightfall – and attack a different type of victim (a couple, which was his signature after all)? I wouldn’t rule it out.

But all things said and done – if I had to put my money on one alternative, I’d say the LB guy wasn’t Z. Which means that the LB sketch is worthless. But I’m far from certain.

i dont know what to think of owen..if i did my math right he would have been approx 1700feet from the crime scene (more than 1/4 mile) while driving (figure 60mph=88feet per second)..i do not know the terrain (is it hilly or flat) but me thinks it unlikely he heard a gun shot?..any thoughts

But then – what if he was actually considering attacking them?

Assuming it actually was Z it’s not beyond a possibility but why didn’t he then? He changed his mind? sure, lets allow him that but that’s my point, why then drive just down the road and attack someone. If he absolutely had to kill that day why further compound his recklessness doing it so close to being observed for an extended length of time?

If the attack had happened the next day I could find it more likely it could have been Z as it could be explained as checking out the area. I mean this guy left his car and went to where he could observe the girls sunbathing. At BRS Z was in a car, at night and left .. then returned and attacked. These girls had 20 mins to observe him in broad daylight and nothing but instead he goes down the road and gets all disguised up to attack a male and a female in his most prolonged attack, with a knife and with the victims tied up. I believe he knew what he wanted to do and I don’t imagine that the location of the 3 girls would have even been considered as suitable. He knew this one would take time and require privacy. I just can’t factor in him leaving his car and going for a little think in full view of three potential witnesses. That’s the part that throws it for me. Not only does it not make sense but it’s different from any of his previous behavior and even his behavior at the attack.

Just my feelings/thoughts on it.

Agreed, traveller – at the end of the day this is pretty much what I think too.

Z came prepared to LB – we know this. He had his costume and he had his clothesline. The latter to me is a clear indication that he was on the lookout for exactly the sort of victim(s) he ended up attacking. And I find it difficult to reconcile the latter with the behavior of the man observed by the three girls.

According to the girls, it sounds like this guy thought he was being sneaky. He was watching them from afar, behind some trees. As he walked down the embankment to where they were, he did so in the same manner he did to Bryan and Cecelia.

The girls mentioned when they would look up at him, he would turn away—as did the fisherman and his son. This person too, did not want to be seen.

The clothes are a give away to me. You have to imagine yourself on a nice sunny day at a lake. And we have three guys dressed in dark clothing–sweater type stuff…and as one of the girls mentioned….she "thought she saw a white belt around his back…", but it was possibly a white t-shirt.

A black sweater-shirt, black trousers and possibly a white belt hanging out the back?
http://www.zodiackiller.com/LBReport10.html

This guy was simply stalking the area, imo. You think he just got lucky with Bryan and Cecelia the first time around? Nah…

Thanks T.

Good points but I’m still not sure. Maybe it was him and for some backwards reason broad daylight made him think he was invisible? Now if he’d had the hood on I’d be more convinced lol.

"Assuming it actually was Z it’s not beyond a possibility but why didn’t he then? He changed his mind? sure, lets allow him that but that’s my point, why then drive just down the road and attack someone. If he absolutely had to kill that day why further compound his recklessness doing it so close to being observed for an extended length of time?"

Because, with all due respect, that is his MO! A suspicious vehicle (very likely the Zodiac) was seen intimidating motorists along Lake Herman Road in the hours before the Faraday/Jensen double-murder of December 20, 1968. Similarly, Mike Mageau reported his attacker as having pulled in beside him and Darlene Ferrin at Blue Rock Springs, left, and returned before opening fire. Spending any amount of time, however substantial or insignificant, lurking and sizing up potential victims at Lake Berryessa before settling on Hartnell and Shepherd is entirely within character given what we know about the Zodiac and to speculate about some unknown second creep in the park that day is, in my opinion, a fool’s errand.

I’ve no problem with it being Z I’m just trying to get my head around the behavior and what we know of Z’s confirmed actions in all the attacks. Whilst I’m thinking about it does anyone know if the model of this guy’s car had a wheelbase that would have been compatible with the treads found at the attack site?

It’s the being observed bit that I can’t quite understand. Maybe it is what it is and there’s no real logic to it. It’s just that he didn’t really like to be seen, did he? Or is there something else going on there? As I listed earlier, attacks at night, blinds his targets with a flashlight, wears a hood during a day attack. I mean he takes these steps apparently to stop his victims seeing his face so why be so observable to three potential victims in daylight? And why did it take so long and again why did he change his mind? He knew it was 3 girls so I’m assuming it wasn’t that. After all he left his car and, assuming it was Z why didn’t he attack? Why did he have to follow them and watch them for 20 mins or so to change his mind?

Then he attacks just down the road. Why did he not change his mind then? What was more acceptable? Just two victims, one male, one female. Certainly fits his previous attacks regarding that aspect of MO. It’s also more isolated. And he commits. So it’s perfect for him, right? How come he couldn’t figure that out if it was him watching the girls? Why did he have to leave his car to figure it out? And why did it take so long to then decide nah, this isn’t going to work?

I know he’s allowed to change his mind, assess a situation, account for potential problems and pick his moment etc but to dilly dally about apparently trying to make up his mind. What’s going on there?

If we accept that it was him that terrorized KJ then we do have an example of just that behavior but I guess you could argue that the baby and being pregnant was the stumbling block there although he certainly took a long time to think about it. So what changed his mind about the 3 girls? What did he have to watch them for to make up his mind? He sure as hell didn’t have that problem with Bryan and Ceclia. He sees the 2 seater and off he goes. Hood, knife, gun, holster, clothesline. He knows it’s 2 people and it’s go time. Quite possibly he knew the terrain and the location as well. And he writes on the car (again something he presumably came prepared to do)

He came prepared, he planned it as best he could allow. There were certain things he wanted to achieve so he had, as best he could, ran the scenario and acceptable variations through his head. So why then on the day suddenly have a potential major rethink involving the number of potential victims and the location?

It’s not that I don’t buy or accept it being him. I just don’t understand what he was doing. It’s not like going shopping for coffee and deciding you suddenly want tea instead. He came prepared so he must have thought it through. I don’t understand how that couldn’t have included the number of victims. That’s a pretty big thing to leave out of your planning or to attempt to plan for on the fly on the day at the location. 2 victims were manageable, 2 victims were what he got, isolated location and the car to write on.

If it was Z I find it difficult to assume he was considering (for 20 mins) an attack on 3 victims. What was he doing? Hanging around, undecided as to who or how many to attack? Waiting for the right amount at the wrong location and having a dry run sans holster, scabbard, knife and gun (presumably)? Ok, they were in the car. Why doesn’t he commit? What is it he has to decide? Why does he have to leave his car to do it? and why are Bryan and Cecelia so perfect that he parks up, dons all his gear, makes a beeline straight for them, even calculating the best best spot to don the hood so as not to spook them.

Seems like he knew what he was looking for so again, what was he doing if it was him the 3 girls saw?

Thanks for the thoughtful reply.

It is my contention that the various irregularities and idiosyncracies in Z’s behavior can be chalked up to the fact that he’s not a particularly organized killer (despite the airs of practiced supervillainy flouted in his communiques). Rather, Zodiac fits a mixed organized/disorganized model. Ironically, his spending time at the crime scenes prior to his attacks is in line with the organized model, as he was likely establishing the level of comfort necessary to facilitate carrying them out, in essence casing the joint. (Which indicates we wouldn’t necessarily be looking for a suspect who was intimately familiar with Lake Berryessa.) But, as you said, he did this in broad daylight and in a manner that was blatant and menacing (as evidenced by the number of witnesses who felt uncomfortable enough with his presence to come forward after the fact). He also thought ahead to bring the adequate supplies (i.e., weapons) as well as the lengths of pre-cut rope he used to bind his victims.

He waited until it was nearly dark and the park had cleared out before approaching Bryan and Cecelia. On the surface, this is organized behavior but again, he hung around ALL AFTERNOON and was seen by half a dozen different people. At this point, it’s important to acknowledge that on a basic level this is a disorganized crime simply by its nature. He attacked TWO victims simultaneously, outdoors, in a fairly accessible public place, and in broad daylight. He left plenty of witnesses, which is significant as he did not bother staging an abduction or hiding the bodies of his victims once he was finished with them, thus buying lead time or, in the event the murder went undiscovered, disguising that a crime had even been committed. Zodiac brought the knife, ostensibly because it was quieter, but didn’t bother to ensure that Bryan or Cecelia were dead before fleeing the scene.

A hallmark of the psychopathic personality, and one that many of us with working consciences can’t rationally comprehend, is compulsion. Serial killers are inherently compulsive personalities. For them, the normal urges toward petty violence that the rest of us suppress, sublimate, or brush off on a daily basis, simply MUST be indulged, though a pure organized offender is careful to the extent that it allows him to remain at large. Zodiac took some precautions, but he was also stunningly sloppy and, more than likely, not nearly as smart as he’d have us believe he was.

There is also the element of ritual. The hood, the bindings, the need to take credit indicate that this murder was ceremonial and highly personal to the killer. To deviate from the plan would have upset the ritual but, because he was sloppy, the plan he was adhering to was deeply flawed from the outset and this carelessness culminated weeks later with the events of Presidio Heights that, in my very humble opinion, effectively spooked the Zodiac into cutting short his career as a killer.

We must remember this person was watching these girls from above, lurking behind trees. He wasn’t sunbathing with them. He was accessing the situation, imo.

Who knows why he didn’t carry it out–if that was his intention. He did end up down by them, but turned away–didn’t say "hello"…he avoided them.

We also don’t know how long he may have been watching Bryan and Cecelia.