You may be right. Also, a little pocket knife does not seem like an ideal murder weapon,so it may have been a spur of the moment choice to attack her. Maybe she said or did something to set him off. The savagery of the attack, may also be because she fought back and gave him more than he was prepared for and it got him into a frenzy.

I am on the fence as to whether or not Zodiac killed Bates, but I think he definitely wrote all the letters in her case. My own personal Favorite Suspect,Ross Sullivan did know Bates, and he vanished for a couple weeks after the murder. Why?? That’s a big question, perhaps to let wounds heal up? I think whoever attacked Cheri, may have had wounds and I definitely think that whoever walked into that alley with Cheri was not a stranger, I just can’t see her walking down a dark area like that with a complete stranger, when she could have walked back into the library.

Agreed with everything you guys said. The pocket knife makes it seem like it was spur of the moment. I think the killer had a thing for Cheri Jo and couldn’t have her. Maybe he is walking around and happens to see her come out of the library, it’s dark and nobody is around so he decides to get his revenge on her. With that type of knife, normally people jab them into the victim, but almost decapitating someone makes it sound like it definitely was out of a severe state of rage.

Varg Vikernes killed the guitarist of the band they were both in (Mayhem from Norway) back in the early 90s by using a dull pocket knife. It took him several attempts to even do any damage or stop the other man from coming at him. Finally he pierced the skull and then went a little overboard and stabbed him many more times, which is we he could not claim self defense.

For the record, Sullivan is my favorite suspect for this particular murder as well.

I think a lot of the frenzy/overkill in the Bates murder is the result of the simple fact that she fought back, and hard, and her killer simply wasn’t prepared for that. On the one hand, he disabled her vehicle and waited for her, which shows planning, but he was also naive enough to think a flimsy little folding knife would be intimidating enough to maintain control. Clearly, it wasn’t. Cheri Jo put up quite a struggle and, judging from the skin found under her fingernails, she took a chunk out of her attacker.

If this was indeed an early Zodiac crime, it would certainly explain the resulting period of inactvity and switch to handguns two years later. (Even at Berryessa where the murder weapon was a bayonet, Z used a pistol to manipulate his victims into compliance.) This pattern of behavior is mirrored in the Paul Stine murder where, after narrowly escaping from the scene of the crime, where he was seen clearly by a number of witnesses (including a pair of uniformed SFPD patrolmen!), Zodiac got spooked and reverted to the (comparatively) safe proxy activities of letter writing and empty threats.

And the letters following the Stine and Bates cases are interesting. They both employ bald-faced lies to downplay how close the killer came to losing control of the situation and getting caught ("she went like a lamb to slaughter," "I didn’t leave prints/I only look like the sketch when I do my thing.") In the Stine case, I seriously feel the Zodiac believed apprehension was imminent and wrote to Belli in an attempt to cover his ass and lay the grounds for an insanity defense at what he envisioned would be a show trial on par with Albert DeSalvo’s back east. (Tony Curtis’ ‘The Boston Strangler’ film, with its depiction of DeSalvo as suffering from dissociative identity disorder, had recently come out and, to my eyes, almost certainly inspired the tenor of the Belli Christmas card.)

I am reminded of David Berkowitz (the most Z-like of identified serial killers). His first ventures were a pair of knife attacks on Christmas Eve of 1975. Both of those victims fought back and both of them lived. It was messy and shortly thereafter, Berkowitz took a road trip to Houston to purchase the .44 Bulldog that he would use in the Son of Sam murders.

It’s thoughts like these that make it impossible for me to rule Z out as being responsible for the Bates murder.

Pettibon, some good points there, I agree with a lot of what you wrote. I too think the ‘rage’ with Cheri’s murder could be a result of her fighting back, and giving him a harder time than he expected, of course, it still could be personal. Disabling her car shows planning and premeditation for sure, but it may have been only to spend a bit of time with her, and get her to talk to him. The murder may have not actually been planned. She may have laughed at his advances, or insulted him or something, sending him into a rage.

Interesting about Son Of Sam by the way, I never heard about him attacking with a knife.

Thanks Morf. And of course, none of what I wrote precludes the possibility that the Bates murder was personal.

The very definition of overkill is to keep going after the person is dead or dying and can’t fight back. I tend to agree with Morf that the murder itself wasn’t premeditated, but than again, who just carries around a knife, even a small one? Maybe he would have let her live if she didn’t spurn him. As with every aspect of this case, it’s hard to say for sure.

The very definition of overkill is to keep going after the person is dead or dying and can’t fight back. I tend to agree with Morf that the murder itself wasn’t premeditated, but than again, who just carries around a knife, even a small one? Maybe he would have let her live if she didn’t spurn him. As with every aspect of this case, it’s hard to say for sure.

I used to carry a pocket knife without any intentions of killing anybody. A lot of them have tools, can openers, etc on them. The pocket knife itself is not a big deal to me, but if he went there planning to kill her, I think he could have used a bigger, more dangerous knife

Yeah that makes sense. And Z seems like the type that probably would carry a pocket knife. I use a Swiss army knife sometimes if I’m camping or something. But I wouldn’t carry one around, not with my phone, keys, wallet, smokes and lighter. Id need a european carryall (ok, a purse).

I always believed the small knife was part of the thrill.yah the attacker could have used a larger knife but he wanted a smaller one for more thrill.Reminds me of John wilkes booth he could of had a 6 shot revolver but he used a one shot derringer for more thrill knowing he had just one shot to hit Lincoln.He also probably used a smaller knife because he thought of himself more stronger then her he didn’t think he needed a larger one.Or possibly the only larger knifes available to him were not as concealing as the smaller one.

I often wonder if the intention was to rape her.

Could be, if it was a Swiss Army type of knife, that he used it to mess with her car as well.

I agree with everyone else in the sense that he may not have intended to kill her, but her fighting back enraged him more. Which brings me to the Confession letter being bs. If it was planned "time for you to die", I highly doubt that would have been his weapon of choice….although one doesn’t even need a weapon.

If he truly did announce he was going to kill her, I understand why she fought like hell.

I often wonder if the intention was to rape her.

Could be, if it was a Swiss Army type of knife, that he used it to mess with her car as well.

I agree with everyone else in the sense that he may not have intended to kill her, but her fighting back enraged him more. Which brings me to the Confession letter being bs. If it was planned "time for you to die", I highly doubt that would have been his weapon of choice….although one doesn’t even need a weapon.

If he truly did announce he was going to kill her, I understand why she fought like hell.

Yeah Tahoe, the wording in the confession, and language, may have been an attempt to sound sinister, or like a super villain

I often wonder if the intention was to rape her.

My money’s always been on a rape gone wrong when Cheri fought back.

I’m still of the opinion that Cheri wasn’t a Zodiac victim, although you guys have made some rather compelling arguments to the contrary.

I often wonder if the intention was to rape her.

Could be, if it was a Swiss Army type of knife, that he used it to mess with her car as well.

I agree with everyone else in the sense that he may not have intended to kill her, but her fighting back enraged him more. Which brings me to the Confession letter being bs. If it was planned "time for you to die", I highly doubt that would have been his weapon of choice….although one doesn’t even need a weapon.

If he truly did announce he was going to kill her, I understand why she fought like hell.

It’s alllllllll speculation unfortunately, but yes, rape would seem to be the lost likely motive to me too. Which would lead me to think he’d "seen her around", knew her car and something of her habits around the library and targeted her – but that he obviously didn’t know enough about her to realise she would fight back as hard as she could. He was a stupid and naive "unpracticed" rapist, then, and the circumstances surrounding the attack pretty quickly escalated beyond his control.
A knife wasn’t required in disabling her car – but could have been carried to threaten, yes. There was a degree of planning, it would seem.
The idea that Cheri would not only recognise him but could name him would support the idea that she knew who he was at least, even if he wasn’t a member of her immediate circle of school or college friends or acquaintances.
Still allllllll speculation.
The Confession letter matches the newspaper accounts very well, as I think other threads have already demonstrated in great detail. I too believe it’s BS.
It – alongside the other BS references to Officer Radetich and the K. Bates reference are what makes me call into question all the other letters too.

Oh! And who could really "almost decapitate" someone with what was (essentially) little more than a pen knife? I find the phrase is a very annoying one, used to sell newspapers on that occasion ‘cos it’s lurid. Ridiculous.