Seems like something it should be possible to establish easily enough. Whether he was a relative or not, I mean.

As for the time change, yes – it’s certainly a possibility.

However, what strikes me is this: You hear a scream outside and make a note of the time. You then inform the authorities (in what precise form I don’t recall) that you heard a scream at 10:30. You’re actually mistaken, though, because you forgot to adjust your watch. An honest mistake, one could say – but surely at some point you realize, yourself, that you have made it: You realize that your watch isn’t right. And when that happens, wouldn’t you sooner or later realize that what you’ve told the authorities isn’t true?

On a similar note, if I were a cop I’d press such an informant on the point about the time – because it’s clearly important. I would ask them if they were sure about the time. Perhaps it would even occur to me, given the context, to ask the informant if he or she had remembered to correct his or her watch. I don’t know – just musing.

This thread is sick and should be deleted.

But I’ll bite. Why would her father, who lives with her, and has many, many opportunities to off her in the privacy of his own home, resort to a convoluted plan in a public place, where he increases his chances of getting caught by thousands of %%%%%

Why?

Thanks, QT. Naturally, our sympathies embrace Cheri’s family; nonetheless, Joseph Bates’ whereabouts on the evening of his daughter’s death need to be verified. Was he with someone? Or did LE take his word for it, and gave him a pass? Another item of interest: JB and his wife were separated at the time of Cheri’s death. What was that all about? And could it somehow play into Cheri’s death? Ordinarily, when a couple separates, the mother retains custody of the children. Did Joseph and his wife divorce? If so, would the divorce records be available?

Cheri’s Mother was not well. She died on July 4th 1969.

From what I read her mom committed suicide. Does anyone know anything more about her? (FYI- I’m in no way trying to imply that her mom had anything to do with it. I was just surprised by that fact and was wondering if anyone knew anything more.)

I thought you were discussing Cheri’s father still. My mistake. If you think it’s worthwhile investigating her cousin (or whomever he is), well then, go right ahead.

That’s ok (handshake)..by the way, do we know if Joseph had his daughter reported as missing? Before she was found?

QT

As for the time change, yes – it’s certainly a possibility.

However, what strikes me is this: You hear a scream outside and make a note of the time. You then inform the authorities (in what precise form I don’t recall) that you heard a scream at 10:30. You’re actually mistaken, though, because you forgot to adjust your watch. An honest mistake, one could say – but surely at some point you realize, yourself, that you have made it: You realize that your watch isn’t right. And when that happens, wouldn’t you sooner or later realize that what you’ve told the authorities isn’t true?

On a similar note, if I were a cop I’d press such an informant on the point about the time – because it’s clearly important. I would ask them if they were sure about the time. Perhaps it would even occur to me, given the context, to ask the informant if he or she had remembered to correct his or her watch. I don’t know – just musing.

As far as I know police asked the neighbors if they had heard anything..two or three of them reported a scream, a muffling sound and up to two persons searching something with flashlights. Time differed from half past ten to a quarter past eleven, sort of.

QT

QT–

You need to prove Leonard Bates was related, or it’s just some guy with Cheri’s last name….ya know?

Tahoe, absolutely..in fact I found the guy in this Loma Linda yearbook and wondered about his last name as well as his appearance. It was only later that I learned that CS’s father used to be a teacher there. So IF he is related to CJB, then he is the only person I do know of who had contact with two victims in Riverside AND SF Bay area.

Whitepages doesn’t deliver full information to recipients from outside the US, so maybe someone can help to find a family relationship between Leonard and Cheri..there are some but not too many Leonard Bates’ and one ‘Leon’ E Bates who in fact had lived in Walnut Creek, Bay area..

"A mind of his own..Leonard has decided opinions and is interesting to know."
(comment next to Leonard’s yearbook picture)

QT

As far as I know police asked the neighbors if they had heard anything..two or three of them reported a scream, a muffling sound and up to two persons searching something with flashlights. Time differed from half past ten to a quarter past eleven, sort of.

QT

From the initial news report:

A woman who lives in the vicinity of the slaying and who declined to identify herself to newsmen, told police she heard “an awful scream” between 10:15 and 10:45”.

“Then I heard a muted scream and a loud sound like an old car being started up. This was about two minutes after I heard the scream.” The woman did not call the police the last night.

All those details (awful scream, followed by muted scream, followed by car starting up) come from the same witness, it would seem. I don’t know, but on the sheer face of it I find it unlikely that she hadn’t gotten around to adjusting her watch (and/or other clocks she may have had in her house) late at night. She had all day to do it, after all. She did not call the police that night – which is interesting in more than one way:

Firstly, it means that if she was indeed mistaken about the time, she must have completely failed to make the proper connection at the time when she did relate her story to the police: At that point she surely must have adjusted her time pieces, but she nevertheless failed to realize her initial mistake, still claiming the wrong time based on not having adjusted her watch the night before. I don’t know – it seems unlikely to me.

Secondly (and on a completely different note), it’s interesting in relation to the discussion we had earlier about the Confession letter (and the writer’s claim about calling the police), but that is best dealt with in a more appropriate thread.

It’s smart and textbook to rule out those closest to murder Victims immediately and work out from there. I think in this case, we can all agree, Joseph Bates had nothing to do with his Daughter’s brutal murder

QT–

You need to prove Leonard Bates was related, or it’s just some guy with Cheri’s last name….ya know?

Tahoe, absolutely..in fact I found the guy in this Loma Linda yearbook and wondered about his last name as well as his appearance. It was only later that I learned that CS’s father used to be a teacher there. So IF he is related to CJB, then he is the only person I do know of who had contact with two victims in Riverside AND SF Bay area.

Whitepages doesn’t deliver full information to recipients from outside the US, so maybe someone can help to find a family relationship between Leonard and Cheri..there are some but not too many Leonard Bates’ and one ‘Leon’ E Bates who in fact had lived in Walnut Creek, Bay area..

QT

I think you have to, as Tahoe says, first prove that Leonard Bates was related to Cheri.

Then I think you have to strengthen your claim that, because Leonard Bates went to a school where CS’s father used to teach, that somehow Leonard and CS "had contact."

It looks like you have two very vague (at least at this time) possible connections, that frankly seem pretty random at best. At LB for example… if Z was targeting CS, wouldn’t it have been infinitely more logical for him to have followed her to LB, rather than hanging around there hoping she’d just happen to show up?

My approach is rather systemically than evidentially (see my introduction..). I believe it’s better to first identify the killer then evidentially prove his actions (ideally in court).

As I said, whitepages for what reasons ever, is limited to people outside the states. So maybe some of you are able to come up with a relationship between Leonard and Cheri? Would be grateful..

A Loma Linda/Riverside address or the names of his parents/brothers/sisters would be a first step..

QT

QT-

Many people here feel that your approach is a bit, um, misguided. I am one of those people. Just cannot see the point of looking at every single unsolved murder ever committed, and trying to tie them all together, it just seems (to me) a ridiculous way of doing things.

Personally, I’d prefer to deal with the specific and exact evidence we do have. Your approach just seems to add noise instead of signal.

-glurk

For myself, until now, I had never heard of a Leonard Bates. Could Joseph have had a brother in the area? He could have, I just don’t recall that name. I try and see what I can find…

Bay

For myself, until now, I had never heard of a Leonard Bates. Could Joseph have had a brother in the area? He could have, I just don’t recall that name. I try and see what I can find…

Bay

Agree..Leonard..cousin? Unrelated? Nothing misguided to check a Bates imo.

QT