I think to assume it was Darlene’s killer is jumping the gun.

Could it have been? Sure. LE apparently didn’t think the caller was their attacker…maybe they know something we don’t.

I think to assume it was Darlene’s killer is jumping the gun.

Could it have been? Sure. LE apparently didn’t think the caller was their attacker…maybe they know something we don’t.

Well, if LE know who it was that called, why the called etc, then they hvn’t released evidence of their investigation showing this along with results. But I have to completely and utterly disagree with you on "I think to assume it was Darlene’s killer is jumping the gun." Firstly T, I know that you are looking at it from a perspective of evidence to clarify it was Zodiac. I agree that there is none. Now brace yourself now T, I am about to ask you to step outside f your comfort zone and, for 30 seconds, forget the word evidence. In lAW & CRIMINOLOGY the tried and trusted method of investigating is to gather evidence. But, Science often uses the law of probability when an absolute concrete piece of evidence cannot be obtained in, for example, Cosmology and Astrology. Science offers us the Theory of Evolution, Theory of Relativity, even the Theory of Everything. I suppose that the Universe and One Mr ‘Zodiac’ are very similar. Very little known about each. No known way to discover the secrets of the Zodiac, similarly to the secrets of the Universe. So, Science works on the idea that if the ultimate answer is unobtainable to you at present, such s the origins of the Universe, but there is a fair amount of known facts and data available, they will take all the facts, all the data, and use it all to come up with the most probable and likely explination for how this happened, and that’s why we have ‘The Big Bang Theory’.

But anyway, irregardless of the above, and again, not locking yourself in the box labelled ‘Evidence Only’ lol, do you honestly think that this phone call is pure coincidence by someone making a malicious series of phone calls who has no idea, nor do the recipients of the calls yet either, that Darlene is deceased?

Do you know any statisticians by any chance? Lol. I bet they’d approximate that the odds of this being pure chance are non related to the offender is thousands to one against.
Tahoe, but serious now, do you see the point I am trying to make?

Or you know maybe Leo was just telling the truth..
and we have no reason to believe that he was in jail that i know of

I think to assume it was Darlene’s killer is jumping the gun.

Could it have been? Sure. LE apparently didn’t think the caller was their attacker…maybe they know something we don’t.

"I think to assume it was Darlene’s killer is jumping the gun." I am not saying the caller was the offender and no questions asked, what I am saying is this: At the time these calls were placed, July 5 at 01:30AM, no info has been made public yet that could account for these calls simply being a cruel prank so my point is its far more reasonable to assume that whoever made these calls had knowledge of what had just taken place than it is to assume that the calls were made my a police officer who didn’t know what to say when Dean picked up. Ok, I would accept that as a possibility if as soon as Dean answered the line went dead because a cop just wanted to make sure he was home first (even though I have never ever heard of police doing this in any other case) but I cannot be asked to believe that upon Dean picking up the phone, the cop stays on the line breathing into the receiver. Breathing down an open line has long been the method of choice for those who wish to harass, intimidate or threaten others so my point is to ignore the most likely and obvious explanation citing the lack of evidence in favour of an alternative that is not only far less likely, but quite frankly ridiculous, is not logical in my opinion. (That’s all it is, just my opinion)

Breathing down an open line has long been the method of choice for those who wish to harass, intimidate or threaten others so my point is to ignore the most likely and obvious explanation citing the lack of evidence in favour of an alternative that is not only far less likely, but quite frankly ridiculous, is not logical in my opinion. (That’s all it is, just my opinion)

Unfortunatley, breathing on the phone was not Zodiac’s typical behavior. He bragged to the cops, but chose to breath into Dean Ferrin’s parents phone? Now THAT sounds ridiculous.

A cop was just one scenerio. There could be many. It’s ok to assume it was Zodiac, but I don’t think it will get you too far.

Yes Zodiac did speak when phoning police to announce his crimes, but again, if it were Zodiac who called Dean, should we expect him to speak if he and Dean are acquainted? If Zodiac were the caller, then the question isn’t so much "How did he get Dean or Dean’s parents Phone Numbers but rather, how did he know who they were to get their numbers anyway if Darlene was a random victim of a random killer not known to her?

I wasn’t trying to imply you were ridiculous T, you know I wouldn’t do that because I’ve had so many occasions where we’ve discussed many different things and your opinions and logic are something I always respect. I just think that this specific example used in this case as an alternative to the most logical isn’t reasonable. I do apologise if it sounded I was being disrespectful to you personally, that was never my intension.

I think it is indeed interesting that Darlene’s Family received heavy breathing calls the night of her murder. Discussion was presented that the caller was a Family memebr of hers trying to track her down,and score weed, and didnt want to have the people get mad when they answered the phone late at night. To me, thats a flimsy scenario. I want to track down Darlene, so I will call her Family(knowing she doesnt live where I am calling),late at night when everybody’s asleep. Doesnt sit well with me.

Next possibility, if Darlene’s killer (Z) was the caller(which will be hard to prove without his ID being known), it would be obvious that he was somebody that knew her. Either way, I find it odd that her Family is getting prank calls the night of her murder, before they even knew she was dead. Also of interest, her last name was not the same as her parents since she was married, so so much for looking them up in the phonebook.

Regarding the possibility of Z making any sort of heavy breathing calls…..I know of an Alameda County 1967 Lover’s lane murder, in which a couple was murdered, shot with no motive. In the days leading up to their murders, the Family would get phone calls from a heavy breather, and they most always came between 10 & 11am. These calls actually continued AFTER their murders:
more on this case-
viewtopic.php?f=37&t=21

viewtopic.php?f=31&t=415

I am surprised that there is not more interest in the above mentioned case, it’s right up Zodiac’s alley, murdered couple, lover’s lane, SF Bay area, no motive, small caliber .22 used.

And in mentioning their case, and their heavy breathing calls, they always came 10-11, do you remember Graysmith getting heavy breathing calls as mentioned in his book?? They always came at about 10:30 am, the same as the above Victim.

Maybe the heavy breathing calls are a coincidence,but maybe not

Could just be a pervert calling.

Could just be a pervert calling.

To multiple Family members with multipl phone numbers? Doubt it

Darlene had many admirers. It’s not inconceivable that one of them may have been a mouth-breathing pervert.

I still think that Leo made the calls, here.

Darlene had many admirers. It’s not inconceivable that one of them may have been a mouth-breathing pervert.

I still think that Leo made the calls, here.

It would be interesting to know if Darlene had made any plans to stop by the Ferrin’s (Dean’s parents) that evening. It seems odd Leo would call there looking for Darlene…unless he thought she would be there for some reason. I wonder what Leo said, if anything, about why he would call their house looking for her?

I have to agree with you Morf that the ‘Leo did it’ scenario makes no sense. And again, if it were a pervert or an admirer of Darlene’s then the timing would have been a huge coincidence. If Darlene had had a history of callers making such calls to her and Dean, then fair enough, but that doesn’t seem to be the case because Dean and Dean’s Parents felt that the calls on 5th July were significant enough to go to the police with. If they had been receiving similar calls for weeks or months prior to Darlene’s death then while that would still be something of interest, the calls that night could be explained away a coincidence. I am sure if these calls had been happening for a time prior to Dee’s death, then Dean would have said so when going to police to tell them about this latest breather. And I can’t imagine Dean’s parents were the target of persistent heavy breather calls or they also would have said something. The timing is just too coincidental IMO.

I have to agree with you Morf that the ‘Leo did it’ scenario makes no sense. And again, if it were a pervert or an admirer of Darlene’s then the timing would have been a huge coincidence. If Darlene had had a history of callers making such calls to her and Dean, then fair enough, but that doesn’t seem to be the case because Dean and Dean Parents felt that the calls on July were significant enough to go to the police with. If they had been receiving similar calls for weeks or months prior to Darlene’s death then while that would still be something of interest, the calls that night could be explained away a coincidence. I am sure if these calls had been happening for a time prior to Dee’s death, then Dean would have said so when going to police to tell them about this latest breather. And I can’t imagine Dean’s parents were the target of persistent heavy breather calls or they also would have said something. The timing is just too coincidental IMO.

I personally agree with your points here Welsh. I need to score some drugs, so late at night,let me call all of the places Darlene might be, and piss off all the Families that are sleeping. Then they breathed for a few moments, and didnt hang up immediately. Doesnt make sense to me, and I think it’s entirely possible that Z made the calls,HOWEVER, there is no proof of this. If there was proof, it would be a big clue possibly to Zodiac’s ID, because it would prove that Zodiac knew her more than just recognizing her, he would have to know her maidn name and Family, in order to call them.

Back in 2008, at this link- http://zodiackiller.fr.yuku.com/topic/3 … EW-DARLENE
Tom V wrote:
"Darlene Ferrin was born Darlene Suennen. She lived most of her life with her parents at 130 Jordan Street in Vallejo, Calif.
In January 1966, Darlene married Jim Crabtree. They quickly divorced, and Darlene then married Dean Ferrin. She stayed Darlene Ferrin until her death just after midnight on July 5, 1969.
As the story goes, around the time of Zodiac’s phone call to Nancy Slover, Darlene’s parents on Jordan Street received anonymous calls that troubled them enough to mention to the police. If it was really the Zodiac who was responsible for those calls, how did he know the last name of Darlene’s parents?
Here’s the really spooky part: The Suennens weren’t listed in the phone book. Not in 1968, 1969 or 1970.
Here’s my hypothesis: Zodiac knew Darlene prior to her first marriage, back when she was Darlene Suennen and living with her parents. And he knew her well enough to have reason to memorize or otherwise keep the Jordan Street phone number.
Back in 1998, Darlene’s brother, Leo, claimed it was he who had made the calls. However, he also told me other things that were 100% untrue and, considering Zodiac was indeed making calls around that same time, I believe Zodiac was the most likely culprit"

I agree with both you and Tom, this scenario seems possible

i still believe DF knew Z…i also believe those calls were made by Z (knowing the unlisted # is just damn scary)…one thing i have yet to agree with is any connection between DF and gaik…i dont think gaik was Z but even i must admit the albany connection is very interesting but no solid proof DF knew of gaik in albany or vice versa..as of now its just theory…but it is interesting and narlow making the connection does raise an eyebrow…