Scared Kid wrote:-

It was a 2 lane road, one each direction. There was no divider.

Thanks, the reason I asked about the divider was, if it was there, Z would be bound by it and would have to drive to LHR, 0.7 miles away, before being able to turn around and there would be little point in going beyond there. (if we assume he was checking the coast was clear) If for example Z was going to check the coast was clear without the divide, he surely would not have went beyond the very next straight piece of road. (once it was clear). Either way 5 to 10 mins is too long IMO and I still do not believe this was the reason as he had already come up that road 2 minutes earlier.

by Mr lowe » Mon Mar 02, 2015 7:07 pm

I reckon he made his decision to kill but realized it was to dark, drove off parked up the ways, taped the torch to the gun, went back and got lucky in his shooting. I say lucky not to be insulting to his victims but to point out how accurate (tight) his shot groupings were.. maybe the forensic investigation was a little flawed. Probably shot from a closer range when the victims were already immobilized through the first shot or fear.

According to Mageau/Police reports Zodiac was carrying "a large high powered flash light, the kind you carry with a handle".

That was my impression, as well – that there was no "taping of the flashlight to the gun" at BRS, only at LHR. Which of course, we can’t be sure of.

the simplest explanation is a combo of scoping out the area for potential witnesses and preparing for the assault – getting the gun ready, preparing to pull in at the right angle, going over the plan in his head, etc. a lot of weight is given to how sloppy z was in his actions, but he also should get points for keeping things pretty simple (except lb, that damned hood and story).

the simplest explanation is a combo of scoping out the area for potential witnesses and preparing for the assault – getting the gun ready, preparing to pull in at the right angle, going over the plan in his head, etc. a lot of weight is given to how sloppy z was in his actions, but he also should get points for keeping things pretty simple (except lb, that damned hood and story).

Would that really take 5 to 10 minutes?
Afterall, how careful would Z be to check to see if the coast was clear, this is a Guy that shot Faraday & Jensen within seconds of James Owen driving by and witnessing his car.

My money is on the possibility he did not have his gun and drove home quickly to get it. 5 or more minutes seems too long to be just checking to see if the coast is clear

There’s really no concrete evidence that it was the same car that first stopped and left and then returned, correct? I could be wrong but I don’t recall MM positively identifying the car or driver as being the same. Seems there were quite a few cars in and out of there that night.

Doubtful he carried the silenced 9mm in the passenger compartment ready to go .
if caught with it, like a traffic stop he would be doing 10-15 in federal prison .
but with the silencer off and hidden and the gun unloaded in the trunk ,if the cops found it … no real foul
If he knew the two cops were just there ( as Ed Rust stated ) and would be returning to Vallejo ,he was giving them time to get further away from BRS

There’s really no concrete evidence that it was the same car that first stopped and left and then returned, correct? I could be wrong but I don’t recall MM positively identifying the car or driver as being the same. Seems there were quite a few cars in and out of there that night.

Correct as far as I know – there’s no way to be sure it was the same car.

The obvious point to make, however, is that if it was NOT the same car, it seems very odd that whoever drove it has not been identified (as far as we know).

It’s a bit like the Fouke encounter on Jackson: We can’t say for sure that Z was the fella of Welsh ancestry, but if he was not – who was he? And why has he not been tracked down?

Both Welsh Fella and Unknown Car would rank among the top witnesses in the case, you’d think. But they don’t exist as such because they’ve never been identified. This is not conclusive but it’s certainly suggestive.

Doubtful he carried the silenced 9mm in the passenger compartment ready to go .
if caught with it, like a traffic stop he would be doing 10-15 in federal prison .
but with the silencer off and hidden and the gun unloaded in the trunk ,if the cops found it … no real foul
If he knew the two cops were just there ( as Ed Rust stated ) and would be returning to Vallejo ,he was giving them time to get further away from BRS

I really don’t think Z used a silencer. The sound of a 9mm or .22 is relatively quiet, and Mageau describes in the Documentary, a "crack, crack"(if Memory serves). I’ve fired a lot of .22’s and 9mm’s, and they are not noisy compared to shotguns & rifles. We have a thread on here someplace about the sounds of these guns. To somebody not used to shooting a gun, they may think they are using a silencer if they are expecting to hear a loud Bang.

Here’s a Browning 9mm
http://youtu.be/C4bs3z4x8Cs

And here’s a similar to the gun used at Lake Herman Rd, notice how the first shot is louder than the rest? The rest of the shots are very quiet
http://youtu.be/odJL7jyWJng

Mageau discribed it as muffled shots in the police report
I own a 22 lr ,9mm, still loud …someone fired a 22 lr the other day 2 blocks away it was a very distinct noise a 9mm 2x as loud IMO
He would be on the wrong end of the gun the shock wave makes a crisp noise as does the ejection gases
the Zodiac movie had a crew that spent 6 months researching the facts ,so I believe it was silenced

I don’t have the BRS report in front of me, so I don’t remember the name, but according to said report a witness did hear the shots and made a point of mentioning how they were more distinct than the sound of firecrackers (which the witness also heard, prior to the shooting).

Michael M says that Z fired one shot initially, then several followed, then yet another series of shots were fired. This sequence is precisely what the witness describes too, so there’s little doubt he or she heard the shots fired by Z. Conclusion: It seems impossible that Z used a silencer, as the sound of a silenced weapon simply would not have been audible to this witness (and certainly not louder than the firecrackers).

EDIT

The witness’ name was George Bryant.

George was the caretaker who heard the shots. He did assume they were firecrackers, but if he really did hear the shots, there was obviously no silencer.

Imo, Mike M. just went a little deaf after the sound of the first shot or two.

In regards to leaving and coming back, I have to wonder if he just drove down the road a bit to make sure nobody was coming from the direction less visible.

Imo, Mike M. just went a little deaf after the sound of the first shot or two.

I’ve always considered that an option/explanation.

I posted the George Bryant piece by MB on page 2 of this thread btw.

I also thought too T that Zodiac might have left then came back to check the coast was clear and/or to maybe even pull the gate closed to buy himself some time if needed.

My less than serious other option is that he realized he’d forgotten his glasses.

I posted the George Bryant piece by MB on page 2 of this thread btw.

So you did! Shows how attentive I am.

But, yes – George B clearly states that he heard what sounded like a gunshot (as distinct from the sound of firecrackers), and what Butterfield argues in his piece as such seems very logical to me.

This is the actual report, BTW, for those interested:

http://www.zodiackiller.com/DFR15.html

I seem to recall reading somewhere that Mageau stated that he and Darlene where followed by a light colored car beginning as soon as Darlene picked him up from his house on Beechwood. The car followed them all the way to BRS and reportedly pulled in behind them moments after they arrived.
If this is true and if this is in fact, the same car that left and returned some minutes later, it would seem logical that this was not a random lovers lane killing. Rather it would seem to suggest strongly that the killer knew Darlene and/or Mike.
Has anyone ever heard this?