The way I see things unfold is as follows.

Zodiac pulls up, gets out of his car and starts firing at the Rambler in an attempt to force Betty and David out. They scramble out of the car through the passenger side door. Zodiac runs around the Rambler to get at them, at which point David tries to rush him. Zodiac overpowers David, grabs him in a headlock and fires at Betty as she flees. He misses initially due to David’s struggling, but his next few shots hit Betty in the back and she falls, wounded. Zodiac shoots David through the head, drops him on the ground and fires at Betty several more times before fleeing.

Considering the way David fell, I always assumed he was shot first with his back towards the perp. This made Betty Lou run and most of the shot were fired while the killer was right there. This being why at least one shot penetrated Betty Lou.

The cops say the ground was frozen and there were no fresh tires tracks. Those tracks shown in the photos must have been old. ?

Zodiac pulling up in his vehicle, exiting and opening fire. Shots fired from within Zodiac’s vehicle.

What amazes me about this incident is how everyone seems to just accept as if it were undeniable fact that Zodiac was even in a car at Lake Herman Road. Now I am not criticising anyone for suggesting theories of Zodiac in relation to his vehicle, like did he fire the first shot from his vehicle, did he get out first then fire one shot etc. Believe me, as a person who has himself put many theories to thread I would not, and could not, be here to criticise.
To use one example then in order to make what I am intending to point out a bit more clear.

When it comes to the Pacific Heights murder of Paul Stine and Don Fouke’s encounter, if I were to say something like "Well when Don Fouke encountered Zodiac on Jackson St, he described him as having a receding hair line" I can guarantee that at least two replies would be "How do we know that was even Zodiac? Where is the evidence? Could have been anyone"

Yet, when the subject of Lake Herman Road is brought up, it seems Universally accepted that Z was in a car. Why? Nobody saw a second car pulled up in the entrance to the pumping station except one witness, and he gave two statements in a short period of time and in the first he says a second vehicle was parked almost parallel along side the first, then by the second statement it had moved to being parked almost down the other end of the turn in area.

No vehicles were reported heading away from the scene as approaching police drove the long winding lanes toward it. And we have, in one report, the finding of a boot’s imprint in the Earth on the other side of the pumping station fence/barrier.

I think it’s because of the remoteness of the location that most believe Zodiac had a vehicle. It is not an area that is in close walking distance to anything. It’s not an area where you would be taking a midnight stroll. No one was seen walking in the area either.

I think it’s because of the remoteness of the location that most believe Zodiac had a vehicle. It is not an area that is in close walking distance to anything. It’s not an area where you would be taking a midnight stroll. No one was seen walking in the area either.

Well if he was on foot I doubt he’d walk the actual road, that kinda defeats the purpose and may as well be driving. And yes it is remote, isolated, and one long stretch of winding road… Just the sort that your car would be easily spotted miles down the road due to the dark and long winding quiet roads and the vehicles obvious headlights miles away visible. One long road that for long sections of it offers drivers no turn off roads, so if the police are racing to the scene, your boxed in with nowhere to go.

"It’s not in an area close to walking distance or anything?" No? Weren’t Betty Lou & David parked in a turning that had a gated section to ‘The Pumping Station’, the building rite on the other side? Again your assuming Zodiac thinks like you may think, and see it the way you may see it that it’s too far out in no mans land and no civilisation is close by. Well, for me and you it would be out of the question to go out there on foot, but I would imagine from his perspective, that would be an ideal location due to him wishing to ‘do this thing’.

"It’s not an area where you would be taking a midnight stroll." That’s true, I wouldn’t, nor would you. But we are not psychopathic serial killers who don’t think like the rest of us do. I wouldn’t waltz onto a lakeshore island dressed in an executioners outfit pointing a pistol at a couple relaxing there either, but Zodiac did.

Anyway Seagull, I am not saying it’s more likely he was on foot, I think he probably was in a car so I think you miss the point I am making, that being, it’s simply odd that it’s assumed he was in a vehicle when several passing motorists went by and only ever saw 1 car, with the exception of one witness who does claim to have seen two but his accounts are inconsistent at best. My point is, it’s odd how this is just automatically assumed and accepted without evidence. To say that is isn’t the kind of place one would be out walking at especially at midnight, is to assume Zodiac used the same logic and reasoning as a rational man/woman would when making decisions and that is not going to be the casse because if he did, he’d not have turned up at Berryessa like he did, nor executed Stine in the middle of a street where police patrols are likely to e higher then the average street due to where it was.

If I’m not mistaken, Zodiac didn’t wear his disguise until hey came upon his two victims at LB. As for Lake Herman Road maybe he parked his car nearby and hoofed it to the crime scene. https://maps.google.com/maps?q=38%C2%B0 … a&t=h&z=18 even though LHR is remote it wouldn’t be that hard of a trek into town, especially if you stashed your car somewhere along the route.

What amazes me about this incident is how everyone seems to just accept as if it were undeniable fact that Zodiac was even in a car at Lake Herman Road.

This is taken as Fact, because James Owen says this is what he saw, as he drove by the scene on his way to work. He saw the car pulled in forward side by side nexxt to Faraday’s. A few minutes later, Borges found the bodies. Owen basically steered the entire police investigation, and as I have well documented, there are several reasons his account should be questioned and scrutinized.

What amazes me about this incident is how everyone seems to just accept as if it were undeniable fact that Zodiac was even in a car at Lake Herman Road.

This is taken as Fact, because James Owen says this is what he saw, as he drove by the scene on his way to work. He saw the car pulled in forward side by side nexxt to Faraday’s. A few minutes later, Borges found the bodies. Owen basically steered the entire police investigation, and as I have well documented, there are several reasons his account should be questioned and scrutinized.

If his account should be questioned and scrutinized (and Owens wasn’t their killer) then maybe he is mistaken or lying and we shouldn’t take it as fact.

I have no problem thinking their killer could have been on foot. There were too many damn cars and people out there that night…on an isolated road.

I doubt the footprint came that night though. The PD report mentions the ground being too frozen for a tire print, so I think a footprint wouldn’t be left either.

What amazes me about this incident is how everyone seems to just accept as if it were undeniable fact that Zodiac was even in a car at Lake Herman Road.

This is taken as Fact, because James Owen says this is what he saw, as he drove by the scene on his way to work. He saw the car pulled in forward side by side nexxt to Faraday’s. A few minutes later, Borges found the bodies. Owen basically steered the entire police investigation, and as I have well documented, there are several reasons his account should be questioned and scrutinized.

If his account should be questioned and scrutinized (and Owens wasn’t their killer) then maybe he is mistaken or lying and we shouldn’t take it as fact.

I have no problem thinking their killer could have been on foot. There were too many damn cars and people out there that night…on an isolated road.

I doubt the footprint came that night though. The PD report mentions the ground being too frozen for a tire print, so I think a footprint wouldn’t be left either.

If he’s lying, then I have a major issue with that, because one of the reasons to lie could be because he is guilty

If he’s lying, then I have a major issue with that, because one of the reasons to lie could be because he is guilty

If he wasn’t their killer, what do we chalk it up to?

Wanting to seem important, maybe?

If he’s lying, then I have a major issue with that, because one of the reasons to lie could be because he is guilty

If he wasn’t their killer, what do we chalk it up to?

Not sure, I couldn’t understand what motive somebody would have to flat out lie in the murders of two young teens,especially because he had kids the same age at home.

What amazes me about this incident is how everyone seems to just accept as if it were undeniable fact that Zodiac was even in a car at Lake Herman Road.

This is taken as Fact, because James Owen says this is what he saw, as he drove by the scene on his way to work. He saw the car pulled in forward side by side nexxt to Faraday’s. A few minutes later, Borges found the bodies. Owen basically steered the entire police investigation, and as I have well documented, there are several reasons his account should be questioned and scrutinized.

Yes that true Morf, he did state that. But just like Don and Eric Presidio encounter with the White Male, what’s to say that the second vehicle was Zodiac’s? Now I readily admit that in all likely-hood it was, but there are those who would ask how do we know it wasn’t a second couple pulling in that left after only a few minutes? Or even simply a vehicle turning around in that widened road area?
Like I said I believe that the most likely and plausible scenario is that the second vehicle’s occupant was Zodiac, but you know what the meticulous kind are like lol. "I want to have a witness seeing the driver of the second vehicle open fire on the first before we can say it was the offenders vehicle parked in that lay-by.

Just while we’re on the subject, I came across this simulation of Lake H as it happened. The sequence of how the uploader see’s the crime unfolding isn’t what made this video one to remember for me personally, it’s the creepy music in the background and the extremely sinister screen size e-fit of Zodiac that pop’s up at 8:20 of the clip that gives it a very menacing feeling! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrfzjbYYQPc

The police think Z only had a 6 minute window to kill. I think it’s likely 3-4 minutes. That car(if it existed),without a doubt, had to be Zodiac’s. Owen claims there were no people or bodies around the cars, inside or out. A 1/4 mile up the road, he claims he heard a shot, which is likely about 20 seconds later or so. Therefore, that car would have to be Zodiac’s if the shooting started that soon. There was no time for the car to leave and another to pull in, get out and start shooting. And where were the two Victims & the driver of that car when Owen went by? No place to be seen, but 20 seconds later, Owen hears a shot, which means they were there at the crime scene. Some would argue that Zodiac had them out of the car already,and ordered them down behind the cars when Owen went by, and therefore Owen did not see them. While that’s possible, it seems as if the kids would have made a run for it when Owen’s car went by to get help,not to mention,the evidence seems to show that Faraday was shot immediately after sliding out of his passenger door(not shot outside as if standing outside already). That didnt happen. Others have said that, maybe Zodiac & the two Victims ducked down in their seats when Owen went by, or that the two victims were ducked down necking in their car when Owen went by, thats also possible, but unlikely. All of the other people that went by the scene saw the two victums in their car,never were they ducked down, and if Zodiac was ducked down, he would have had to have sprang out right after Owen went by, jumped out and tried to order the kids out,then firing his warning shot, all within 20 seconds. Sorry, but these are the only two real possibilities in my estimation, which is why Owen continues to be the most obvious suspect in my book.

The scenario could very well have played out like this:

*The hunters leave the scene

*Owen happens upon the scene

*Owen backs in, his Driver’s door is far away from the Victims. He gets out and perhaps, Faraday feeling uneasy, starts his car or starts to back up. Owen,just outside of his own driver’s door, to stop Dave from attempting to leave,fires a warning shot in the air, or into the back of Faraday’s car.

*Owen walks around his own car, to the passenger side of Dave’s car, and orders them out, maybe telling them "all I want is your money", or some other BS story. The two teens slide out thru the passenger side, and Dave is immediately shot, which sends Betty running, and then she is shot in the back. She falls on her side.

*Owen gets in his car,and since he was backed in, he is able to drive straight forward,not running over the bodies(its a very tight area there, and backing up would have been hard to do without running over the kids)and heads off towards his Humble Oil alibi job in Benicia, having no idea that Stella Borges is about to pass the crime scene

*Stella comes along a moment or two later, and immediately sees the two victims, and specifically sees Betty on her side(the same as what Z mentions that she was on her side). Stella races off for help, and Betty who expires, falls over face down, which is how she is found when police get back to the scene.

*Zodiac mailed letters immediately following most of his crimes, but why wait 8 months to claim Faraday & Jensen? I think it’s likely that Zodiac, felt he was a suspect, or was on the list of suspects for the Lake Herman Rd murders, and waited until he felt the coast was clear to write a letter taking credit for the crime. Owen certainly was somewhat of a suspect, police took multiple statements from him, tested his guns(rifles), and according to Owen, they had him test drive his route that night. Sloppily, and carelessly, according to Owen, they never asked him for writing samples, or finger prints. When they realized that a handgun and NOTa rifle was used, they never came back to Owen asking for his handguns.

In Owen, you have a guy that is brand new to the area, ex-air force(wing walkers),and is at the crime scene during the small window of time when Z struck. How police didn’t properly rule this guy out is beyone me.

Sorry to take this off topic a bit, but back to the topic of the bullets(and casings), I think the scenario above is the only one that explains that one shell casing so far from the others, that Z backed in and fired a shot in the air perhaps immediately after getting out of his car, and this completely is at odds with what Owen claims he saw, which once again, would make Owen a liar.