The guy that does the linguistic profiling, is Dr. Gerald McMenamin. He has agreed to have a look at the 50 something pages of Manalli’s stuff from the old forum to see what he finds. The bad news is, he said he is busy,and it may take a while to do it. I am interested in what he finds. I tried to condense it down to some obvious stuff which seems easy to spot, at my blog www.zodiackillersite.blogspot.com

The guy that does the linguistic profiling, is Dr. Gerald McMenamin. He has agreed to have a look at the 50 something pages of Manalli’s stuff from the old forum to see what he finds. The bad news is, he said he is busy,and it may take a while to do it. I am interested in what he finds. I tried to condense it down to some obvious stuff which seems easy to spot, at my blog http://www.zodiackillersite.blogspot.com

Great stuff morf. It will be interesting to get a professional’s thought’s on Manalli’s writing to at least find out if it might be interesting lol.

It’s awesome that he’s gonna have a look at this. Good to get moving on FM and it’s great that there are pros out there willing to look at Z stuff and work with the community. As always, great job Morf!

"The Ad read, "Zodiac your partner is in deep real estate, you’re next. The Imperial wizard can save you. Surrender to him, or I’ll terminate your case"

Hello Morf
Sorry if displeased you or other members, I just want to explain that words spoken in a language distinct meanings, and can sometimes offend, it spoke to Dave. I am a newbie, I’m not arrogant, far from it, I have an open mind.
As for Fred Manalli, found incredible, the handwriting is practically writing "mirror" of the infamous Zodiac, adding all other possibilidades.Fico grateful for show and share, and I was grateful for Dave site with which I have been learning.
I watched the message (above) in the newspaper then the date of death of Manalli. (Which may be a fact) that you introduced me to your blog.
Taking into account that there is a huge coincidence made ​​the following conjecture of the message:
It is addressed to a person (zodiac), which is notified of the death of another person (Manalli perhaps), and that he would have the same order if the case did not end with the help of another ("assistant Emperor") which made me assume at least 4 people, taking into account that the message departs directly from the "emperor" or 5 people leave if another person who "emperor" asked to send such a message.
Watching the zodiac symbol, the circle cross is divided into 4 parts, and possesses 5 intercessions in your drawing.
What would lead us to conclude in a crazy "project zodiaco"
Sorry if no one understood me. (I know it will be ignored, but I like to make it clear, because I like to respect the work of others, and admire new ideas)
I have to me that this cipher 340 in 4 different languages ​​(English, Spanish, French and Latin), I came to inconclusive results and can be a big nonsense

And sorry for my inconvenience on your site Morf
sincerely
Marcelo

Marcelo,your English is far better than my spanish, so no worries

I agree, the timing of the ad running in the SF Chronicle (zodiac’s Favorite newspaper)the day after Manalli died is incredible, and whether it has to do with Manalli dying,or not, I think the term "deep real estate" is referring to somebody dying.

While I have trouble buying into a zodiac ‘team’, maybe I should consider it more. Then again, I think Manalli (if he placed the Ad)may have had a split personality, or an alter ego, and Zodiac was another person inside of him, and may have actually thought that there was two different people inside of him. Fred wanted to be a famous writer, and felt like the world did not ‘discover’ or ‘respect’ his writing works. On one hand I feel that if he was Zodiac, he would have wanted the fame of telling everybody,and would have told the world in the ad, "I am Fred Manalli, and I am the Zodiac". On the other hand, he liked the mystery aspect as we see in his writing, maybe more of an attitude like, "i’ll give you hints,but you still won’t solve it".

Let’s look at Manalli as a whole.

Things that do not line up with Manalli being Zodiac-

*Primarily lived in Santa Rosa,I can find no ties to him in Vallejo or Riverside. Zodiac (in my mind)obviously lived or worked in Vallejo. In the book, it mentions he had lived in Riverside, but again, no evidence of this. Although, Manalli had lived in, and went to college in San Francisco before the Z crimes.

*His height. Although I try not to put too much into physical descriptions, he was pretty tall, which doesn’t seem to fit Z, and I have not seen Manalli with glasses. He did mention in his letters that he had gained alot of weight, which may be consistent with Z.

*A stutter. Supposedly, according to his Sister, Manalli had a stutter. This would have been noticed by Hartnell, and the people that took Zodiac’s phone calls. However, no disrespect to his Sister, but she told me she hadn’t really talked to him in years leading up to his death, and didn’t even know what year he died, so I am not sure how much faith to put in what she told me.

Things that DO lineup with Manalli being Zodiac.

First and foremost, his writings. I would challenge anybody with a Zodiac suspect to come up with writing from their suspect that lines up with Zodiac’s as well as Fred’s does. Quite simply, Zodiac & Manalli were writing about the same stuff, using the same odd words, the same habits, the same subject matter.

*Both use the word Saterical/Satirical, a word obviously not used by many people

*Both use the phrase "hang by your thumbs"/ "hang by your thumbs", again, not very common

*Both were quite fond of the word ‘shall’, a word not used by Americans very often.

*Zodiac wrote about ‘slaves in paradise’ at the same time, Manalli’s story ‘Paradise,it’s a nice place came out’

*Manalli mentioned the book Finnegan’s Wake which is filled with misspellings, written purposely by the author, James Joyce. Zodiac misspelled many of those same words, with the same exact misspellings.

*Both Manalli & Zodiac split their words up in an odd way. For example, they bogh wrote the word somebody, like SOME BODY. Even more interesting,and really unusual, is that they both split the word CAUGHT up like caug ht. That is simply a habit, that most people don’t have.

I could go on and on,but I won’t since we have many many posts here about Manalli. The fact is, becuase I can go on and on,that’s what make Manalli such a good suspect. There’s alot more to him that lines up vs stuff that does not line up. He’s one of my top 3 favorite suspects, and the more I think about him, the more I get tempted to move him up the list. I think there is a high likelihood, that Manalli wrote the zodiac letters.

Marcelo,your English is far better than my spanish, so no worries

I agree, the timing of the ad running in the SF Chronicle (zodiac’s Favorite newspaper)the day after Manalli died is incredible, and whether it has to do with Manalli dying,or not, I think the term "deep real estate" is referring to somebody dying.

While I have trouble buying into a zodiac ‘team’, maybe I should consider it more. Then again, I think Manalli (if he placed the Ad)may have had a split personality, or an alter ego, and Zodiac was another person inside of him, and may have actually thought that there was two different people inside of him. Fred wanted to be a famous writer, and felt like the world did not ‘discover’ or ‘respect’ his writing works. On one hand I feel that if he was Zodiac, he would have wanted the fame of telling everybody,and would have told the world in the ad, "I am Fred Manalli, and I am the Zodiac". On the other hand, he liked the mystery aspect as we see in his writing, maybe more of an attitude like, "i’ll give you hints,but you still won’t solve it".

Let’s look at Manalli as a whole.

Things that do not line up with Manalli being Zodiac-

*Primarily lived in Santa Rosa,I can find no ties to him in Vallejo or Riverside. Zodiac (in my mind)obviously lived or worked in Vallejo. In the book, it mentions he had lived in Riverside, but again, no evidence of this. Although, Manalli had lived in, and went to college in San Francisco before the Z crimes.

*His height. Although I try not to put too much into physical descriptions, he was pretty tall, which doesn’t seem to fit Z, and I have not seen Manalli with glasses. He did mention in his letters that he had gained alot of weight, which may be consistent with Z.

*A stutter. Supposedly, according to his Sister, Manalli had a stutter. This would have been noticed by Hartnell, and the people that took Zodiac’s phone calls. However, no disrespect to his Sister, but she told me she hadn’t really talked to him in years leading up to his death, and didn’t even know what year he died, so I am not sure how much faith to put in what she told me.

Things that DO lineup with Manalli being Zodiac.

First and foremost, his writings. I would challenge anybody with a Zodiac suspect to come up with writing from their suspect that lines up with Zodiac’s as well as Fred’s does. Quite simply, Zodiac & Manalli were writing about the same stuff, using the same odd words, the same habits, the same subject matter.

*Both use the word Saterical/Satirical, a word obviously not used by many people

*Both use the phrase "hang by your thumbs"/ "hang by your thumbs", again, not very common

*Both were quite fond of the word ‘shall’, a word not used by Americans very often.

*Zodiac wrote about ‘slaves in paradise’ at the same time, Manalli’s story ‘Paradise,it’s a nice place came out’

*Manalli mentioned the book Finnegan’s Wake which is filled with misspellings, written purposely by the author, James Joyce. Zodiac misspelled many of those same words, with the same exact misspellings.

*Both Manalli & Zodiac split their words up in an odd way. For example, they bogh wrote the word somebody, like SOME BODY. Even more interesting,and really unusual, is that they both split the word CAUGHT up like caug ht. That is simply a habit, that most people don’t have.

I could go on and on,but I won’t since we have many many posts here about Manalli. The fact is, becuase I can go on and on,that’s what make Manalli such a good suspect. There’s alot more to him that lines up vs stuff that does not line up. He’s one of my top 3 favorite suspects, and the more I think about him, the more I get tempted to move him up the list. I think there is a high likelihood, that Manalli wrote the zodiac letters.

FYI:

San Francisco Police Departments captain Marty Lee belived Zodiac lived in or near Santa Rosa!

(captain Marty Lee is now deceesed, in 1982 the newsreport says, but death records says 1988)

After, long time ago, watching all the old youtube videos from the time Zodiac was active, Marty Lee, always came across exstremely honest and intelligent to me, I always felt this man was the one I would like to meet and talk to about the case.

It would have been great to talk to his son Mike Lee and ask him about his fathers theories, but unfortunately he passed away May 2011 from a heartattack.

I´v tried to find info on Capt. Marty Lee´s theories ect , but I have not been able to find ANYTHING whatsoever except for his son´s statement .

Does any of you have info on Marty Lee´s theories?

His son says that his father was obsessed with the case, so there must excist som kind of note material of his fathers I belive.

Actually Marty Lee moved to Kenwood in 1970, the little town south/east og Santa Rosa, were SR murder victims Yvonne Weber and Maureen Sterling, by some reports, were supposed to have gone to a party the day they disappeared.
(Marty Lee bought a winery called "Pagani Winery".)

So I wonder if Capt. Marty Lee had info on Fred Manalli, and if FM, one way or the other, was part of his theorie?

Here is the info that capt. Marty Lee belived that Zodiac lived in or near Santa Rosa

http://www1.pressdemocrat.com/apps/pbcs … 033/NEWS01
HIS FATHER’S CASE: Kenwood Winery co-founder Mike Lee has more than a casual interest in seeing the new film "Zodiac."

And here’s something you’ll be glad you never knew. Marty died in 1982 believing the Zodiac lived in or near Santa Rosa.

And if somone belive it was Arthur Lee Allen who was Marty Lee’s suspect, this info show that Arthur Lee Allen could NOT have been Marty Lee’s suspect due to that Arthur Lee Allen, after 1977 lived and worked in Vallejo/Benicia :

http://www.zodiackillerfacts.com/allen.htm

Allen completed his sentence and left Atascadero on August 31, 1977. He returned to Vallejo, and the basement room of his mother’s home. The conviction had made Allen’s "problem" with children a matter of public record, and it is doubtful that his life was ever the same after his return from the state hospital.

As Allen attempted to settle back into his life in Vallejo, there were forces at work against him.

Additional info of interest:

Darlene Ferrin had a Mrs Alice Winder (nee Simpson) in her phonebook who lived in Sebastopol (same little town just west of Santa Rosa where Fred Manalli lived)
Alice Winder was an old lady in 1969, 82 years old, she was born 1887, and she died in 1987, 100 years old.
I wonder what relationship Darlene had to that old lady?
Anyone know?

Mrs. Alice Winder’s address in Darlene Ferrin’s phonebook was:

http://www.zodiackiller.com/DeeBook17.html

Mrs. Winder
265 Murphy Ave
Sebastopol, Ca

But through research I have found that her first name was Alice.

Interesting stuff Foreigner, thanks. I never heard Martin Lee express his opinion about a Santa Rosa connection. Worth looking at closer.

Thanks for the reply Morf
I was very curious about Manalli as it’m open to all possibilities and ideas, although in my Blog I point the classic ALA, and the sequel "Ebeo et al … etc." was not forced, this I swear, I did it in 2002, had no idea of the full story and amazing Zodiac, in this case there have to me that after having discarded DNA ALA (to be clear, in my opinion) that ALA is not the infamous zodiac, was part of something relative to that. I believe that the case would only be closed with material evidence, if they still exist. Manalli Allen together and watched "my name is AEN … …. NAM cipher, to think of many things, finally Manalli joined my list of suspects who had only one name so far.
cheers.
Marcelo

Eemembered "Finnegans Wake" you mentioned, is a complex work because JJ wrote fusing different languages​​, aa translation for Brazilian Portuguese was made by local geniuses (Campos Brothers and Donaldo Schüler)( http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnicius_Rev%C3%A9m ) was laborious and second Millor Fernandes other revered cartoonist translator (considered the best in Brazil) and writer (who died last year)( http://www.lainsignia.org/2004/mayo/cul_057.htm ), JJ used words no longer in use in some languages ​​that surprises to him. So I think the "errors" in the Zodiac messages are intentional and that there is a possibility that the 340 is encrypted into 4 parts, do not know what standard and in some languages distinct​​, dais which can achieve the precise LATIN compulsory subject Faculty in my letter and Spanish by similarity.
Anyway, if not it will be a good hobby for me, and will train in other languages​​, a good exercise.

Marcelo
fRED dragon ;/

I’ve often thought about whether stylometry might be of any use to a Z researcher. The question is whether Z’s body of "literary" work is comprehensive enough. Could one combine his various missives to form a longer text – and would it be possible to make a valid comparison between this text and, say, a text by Manalli?

In theory a stylometric comparison could reveal Charles Dickens as the author of a user’s manual for a piece of farm equipment – as the method ignores context (a deliberately ill written letter by a homicidal maniac versus a conventional literary text by a competent author) and focuses on basic linguistic elements, the "signature" left behind involuntarily by the author regardless of what his literary intention is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stylometry

Morf, did your guy ever complete the linguistic profiling?

Morf, did your guy ever complete the linguistic profiling?

He declined

My guess is the Santa Rosa suspect was Arthur Leigh Allen. He was living in Santa Rosa while Marty Lee was Captain at SFPD. Don’t know when he retired from the force, but Marty may not have been privy to Allen’s address change in 1977 when he was released from Atascadero. That said, I am very interested in the possibility that Allen and Manalli worked together. One killing and the other writing the letters. I really like Manalli as the responsible for the SRHM and as the writer of the Z letters, although this would require him meeting ALA (who in my opinion did the killing) by 1966. In a perfect world we could find some way to connect them.