The Foreigner wrote:

TF, my thought on that is Manalli is referencing George Orwell’s novel 1984 in some manner. There is no doubt that Manalli was a heavy reader so that would make sense. I read 1984 too many years ago to remember what the Fall of that year was about.

A typo?, or Ray Bradbury’s 1984? maybe…

Do you happen to know Manalli’s address/adresses in the timeframe 1963-1976 ?

And I remember reading somwere, a cupple of years ago, that after Manalli’s death, even though that Santa Rosa police suspected him in at least Kim Allen’s death, they would NOT go further with the investigation due to that "his family had be through enough" and that " they didn’t want to cause the family further pain" , or somthing to that effect.

OK I just found it in my filels (dated: 21-08-2008), but I didn’t add any link to the info, so I don’t know where I found it, or who wrote it:

"I recently found the name of that Santa Rosa Junior College arts instructor who had drawings of the murdered coeds in hog tied in sexual positions,the same man who was killed as a result from a car accident on Hwy 12 between Santa Rosa and Sebastapol:Fred Manalli. His name was mentioned from a old newspaper article,which is not available online or even from books,however. What is so bizzare about Fred Manalli aka Santa Rosa Junior College arts teacher ,from what I read on "Zodiac Unmasked" about him,is that he drew sketches of Kim Wendy Allen in a sadomasochistic pose,and himself being flogged with whips and chains. A missing item belonging to Kim Allen other than her clothing and a earring-a backpack. During itemizing the property found within the teachers automobile was a backpack that was owned by one of the Sonoma victims. Allen owned a backpack listed as missing,so it must of been hers. Why wasn’t the teacher held as a potential suspect even after his death? According to Sonoma Sheriffs Dept,not everything was itemized.only the items found in his pockets was returned to his next of kin. Most of this very conspicious evidence,if not concrete,was dropped for any further investigation by Sonoma Sheriffs Dept because they felt in no position to ruin Manalli’s reputation,for his family’s sake. What were investigators keeping back on this case?"

I really wonder why Manalli´s connection to the Kim W Allen murder case was covered up?

Do you have any information about this Seagull?

Some of that post is correct, most is speculation. I am always suspicious of people who post things like that with no documentation or references and tend to think that they let their imaginations run away with what little is true.

I have posted before that there were sketches found among Manalli’s belongings. They were found in his home and not his automobile. As a matter of fact he had a van not a car. The drawings were found by his ex-wife and a man named Don Emblen who were cleaning out his home sometime after his death. They were the people who turned the drawings over to the sheriff’s department. I do not know how they knew the drawings were of Kim Allen unless they had been labled in some way. I confirmed this information with Butch Carlstedt when I spoke with him in about 2006.

Manalli’s parents lived in Illinois it’s hard to imagine that ruining Manalli’s reputation in California would have much effect on his parents. I believe that the main reason Manalli was not named is because he was dead and the dead can not defend themselves. There may have been a reasonable explanation for the drawings but since he is not alive to answer to that he can not named as the suspect. Maybe the parents were informed of the suspicions either by LE or the ex-wife and told LE they would sue if Fred’s name surfaced, accused of being a murderer. I just don’t know for sure.

A passage in Zodiac Unmasked by Robert Graysmith. As with much of Graysmith’s writing in this book it needs to be read with a bit of skepticisim.

Theforeigner wrote:

Info on a classified ad posted in the SF Chronicle Aug 27, 1976 saying:

"ZODIAC, your partner is in DEEP REAL ESTATE. You’re next. The Imperial Wizard can save you. Surrender to him or I’ll terminate your case. R.A."

can be found on this thread :

http://zodiackillersite.forummotion.com … ters#30208

Here is a copy of a post on that thread and my reply to it concerning Fred Manalli:

On the last page of the article Tracers posted there is mention of a personals ad that appeared in the Chronicle. Here is the ad as published-

10-04-2010 Seagull, on zodiackiller.com, suggested that:
"the ad saying that Zodiac’s partner is in Deep Real Estate I think would mean that the partner is dead, six feet under ground."

NOW!…I just realized that TWO DAY previously of this add, August 25, 1976, Fred Manalli died!!!

SO!…was Fred Manalli Zodiac’s partner in crime???
And somone knew about it?

California Death Index, 1940-1997
about Fredric S Manalli
Name: Fredric S Manalli
Social Security #: 352264917
Sex: Male
Birth Date: 7 Mar 1935
Birthplace: Illinois
Death Date: 25 Aug 1976
Death Place: Sonoma

First of all: Happy Easter Everyone! So if I am guilty of anything it is probably relying too heavily on the research and suppositions of Robert Graysmith. That caveat notwithstanding, here I go: if the writing on the soy barrel that Kim Wendy Allen had in her possession was very close to the writing at the bottom of the Zodiac "exorcist" letter and some of Allen’s belongings were found in Manalli’s possession (as well as a drawing of her), then in my opinion this increases the likelihood that he was the author of the Zodiac letters.

Plus, if his fingerprints are on file they could be there for comparison. Probably no DNA but I have heard Manalli’s sister (I think) has offered to provide her DNA for comparison. So they find hair in FM’s wallet, find a backpack and pictures but don’t think he’s involved. And the cop says "he probably taught her"? You would think they would know that. It’s a great cover to get her into the car with him. She would have seen him or have been a student of his and then he offers her a ride? She would think he is trustworthy.

With all the circumstantial evidence, you would think the Sheriff’s Office would expend the effort to try and close the case, not just spare the feelings of a potential murderer’s family. The victims and their families deserve better than that.

Plus the same sergeant told Graysmith that chipmunk hairs that matched hairs found in the trunk of Arthur Leigh Allen’s car were found on some of the victim’s bodies. Again, was this ever pursued? And the bombs and guns found at Allen’s house? No charges. It just doesn’t make sense. No wonder these crimes were never solved.

Just an Easter rant. I’m sure the police know things I don’t.

The soy barrel was not the exact same one that Kim was carrying, that barrel was never found. It was one like Kim was carrying, there is no way of knowing if the writing on her barrel was the same as the one pictured.

Graysmith is the only one who claims that Allen and Manalli knew each other, we don’t know for sure if that is true. Allen did go to Sonoma State College in Rohnert Park but Manalli taught at Santa Rosa Junior College, not at Sonoma State. Manalli got his masters at San Francisco State College so I don’t know why he would be going to Sonoma State.

It is claimed, by Ret. Det. Butch Carlstedt, that items of Kim’s and drawings that depicted what could have been her murder were found when Manalli’s ex-wife was cleaning out his apartment after his death. I am not aware that any of Allen’s belongings were found in his possession.

Kim was definitely raped, there was semen present on her body. Zodiac never raped anyone. Kim was held and tortured before she was killed and then her body was dumped in an out of the way place. Zodiac was quick with his kills, he did the deed and was gone, leaving his victims where they were attacked. They were all found quickly.

Of Zodiac’s known attacks, the four in the Bay Area, three of the victims were female and four were male. While two of the males survived they were nonetheless attacked pretty viciously. There seems to be a tendency to hone in on female only unsolved murders when trying to connect other murders to Zodiac but the reality is that Zodiac attacked more males than females. In fact Zodiac’s last known murder was of a solo male.

Did Zodiac find killing males more of a challenge, thus getting a bigger thrill from the act? If he continued to kill, would he have only killed females because they were easier or would he have gone for the challenge? I think one would need to study the psychology of serial killers to understand the answer to that.

I like Fred as a suspect, always have. Doesn’t look anything like Zodiac. Doesn’t fit the description of him. But man,the writing……it’s creepy how much he & zodiac had in common. Writing about the same things, using the same words,phrases etc….."hang by their thums" & ‘Satirical" who uses those???? Both Fred & Zodiac that’s who. The timing of that zodiac ad in relation to Fred dying. Just somae really really interesting stuff. I have always been curious just how Graysmith came to know stuff about Manalli and why he tried to link Allen to him. My gut tells me that somebody suspected Manalli of being Z,and Graysmith was interested in him but already was latched to Allen so thought it would make Allen more viable. I just don’t know,just another rabbit hole

Yes, the ad is really compelling to me. And what does the ad say? "Zodiac, your PARTNER [emphasis mine] is in deep real estate…" That leads me to conclude that, if authentic, Zodiac had a partner. I really think Manalli wrote the letters, and I like him for the student SRHM. Page 260 of ZU says Manalli had a backpack belonging to one of the victims, doesn’t specify Kim Allen, so I misquoted it. However…that raises yet another intriguing point. Which victim did the backpack allegedly belong to? The drawing of Kim Allen piques my interest. If the backpack belonged to another victim, then maybe Manalli could be linked to another victim. And could they match the hair in his wallet to one of the other victims since it wasn’t Kim’s? And then, Manalli was evidently questioned by the police in relation to some murder. So he was on somebody’s radar screen before his van/apartment was cleaned out after his death.

Again, scratching my head in frustration that more hasn’t been done re: the SRHM.

Kim was the only victim that was travelling with a backpack. One of Manalli’s female students brought him to the attention of LE according to what Manalli wrote in a letter to his publishing agent. We have a copy of the letter posted here in one of the Manalli threads.

No one is more frustrated about the lack of LE involvement in these cases than I am, there was a bit of activity when Joseph Naso was being investigated for his serial killings. Naso’s son lived in Santa Rosa for a time so they felt there could have been a connection. A few LE agencies, including Napa and Sonoma counties, got grant money around that time to look into cold cases but nothing came of it, at least in the case of Sonoma County. There were more of Naso’s victims found in other counties though.

Unfortunately Sonoma County seems to change their department heads fairly often and each new person has different priorities. Cold cases haven’t been at the top of anyone’s list in quite a few years now. Money, of course, is cited as the reason. They don’t have enough people to handle the current cases so the cold ones get colder.

At this point i doubt anybody in leo has any incentive to reopen a z case….cjb seems like most likely and id like to see phenol dna tried in her case..cjb seems most hope at this point to me anyway…nobody is going to risk a career on a hippie runaway hitchiker from that era…it may hurt but its just a fact….yea manelli looks good to me as well…very worthy of being up on the poi list and much more than most..but i have not really paid much attention to him….

I will apologize in advance if this is posted somewhere on the forum already: anybody familiar with Manalli’s arrest in Rockford in 1956 for Attempt to Commit a Lewd and Lascivious Act? The alleged victim was 16 years old. Not sure of the final disposition of the charge. I know some of his writings have homosexual undertones (and I am not an expert on his writing by any stretch of the imagination) but the victim in Rockford is probably close to the median age of the victims in Santa Rosa. Can anyone say preferential sex offender?

I will apologize in advance if this is posted somewhere on the forum already: anybody familiar with Manalli’s arrest in Rockford in 1956 for Attempt to Commit a Lewd and Lascivious Act? The alleged victim was 16 years old. Not sure of the final disposition of the charge. I know some of his writings have homosexual undertones (and I am not an expert on his writing by any stretch of the imagination) but the victim in Rockford is probably close to the median age of the victims in Santa Rosa. Can anyone say preferential sex offender?

Good question. I don’t recall just what info we had on him from back then

I found a 1965 picture of Fred Manalli which is closer to 1968-69 than the other pictures we have of him. He looks a little older but otherwise much the same.

Putting the Zodiac stuff aside for a moment, the only thing that gives me pause about Manalli as a suspect in the SRHM series is the 1978 double-murder of Kerry Graham and Francine Trimble. There’s a LOT to suggest that these victims ought to be linked to the earlier, Sonoma County murders and if they are linked, that would eliminate Fred, who died in 1976. It would also eliminate the other suspect favored by police, the ex-con who committed suicide.