Yes, according to Mr Reed of ‘Reed and Son Towing Services’. But the bigger question, is why did her abductor take her on a two hour excursion of Tracy, California, yet she escaped into a vineyard within 300-400 meters from where she was originally abducted. Truth be told, the story is highly dubious.

You think she made that up? For insurance money, something like that?

Yes, according to Mr Reed of ‘Reed and Son Towing Services’. But the bigger question, is why did her abductor take her on a two hour excursion of Tracy, California, yet she escaped into a vineyard within 300-400 meters from where she was originally abducted. Truth be told, the story is highly dubious.

You think she made that up? For insurance money, something like that?

That was a theory that was around a little while ago. Seems a very dangerous game to play, firstly police would have been all of it due to the Zodiac claim. Secondly you would run the risk of bringing yourself to the attention of a extremely dangerous man (The Zodiac).

Plus Z mentioned it indirectly in one of his letters.

Plus Z mentioned it indirectly in one of his letters.

Yes but wasn’t it after the story was in the news ? Z could have been just taking credit for it.

Yes, according to Mr Reed of ‘Reed and Son Towing Services’. But the bigger question, is why did her abductor take her on a two hour excursion of Tracy, California, yet she escaped into a vineyard within 300-400 meters from where she was originally abducted. Truth be told, the story is highly dubious.

You think she made that up? For insurance money, something like that?

That was a theory that was around a little while ago. Seems a very dangerous game to play, firstly police would have been all of it due to the Zodiac claim. Secondly you would run the risk of bringing yourself to the attention of a extremely dangerous man (The Zodiac).

If she fabricated the kidnapping then why didn’t she more overtly point to Zodiac being the perpetrator? She never said he identified himself as the Zodiac Killer. The Zodiac link appeared when she identified him based on a composite sketch.

I think the reason he was driving around for so long was that he wanted her to show fear, but she was smart and didn’t show any. Being the type of nurse that she was , she knew how to handle mentally disturbed people. The longer he drove her around he may have thought she would start to panic , but that didn’t happen either. Then he was probably looking for the best place to kill both of them? That was when he took the wrong turn and had to stop and back up, giving her the only chance she had to get away, thank goodness! The idea that Kathleen received at least one Halloween Card and also received phone calls letting her know he was her abductor. Shows he was her abductor and not someone else who read about her in the paper. The paper didn’t give her address in San Jose where he called her. He let her know things that only the abductor knew about that long ride.

I do believe she was telling the truth and also that her abductor was Zodiac. Her description of him is the best of any other witness. She had to be the only witness who told DOJ about him having a lazy eye. DOJ asked the detective I was working with , to ask me if my suspect had a lazy eye?

Not many remember that her abductor wore a thin rubber band to hold his glasses in place. On Jan 15th or 16th 1988, my suspect wore a thin one inch wide rubber band to hold his glasses on. He also wore the dark Navy wool pants and the very shinny shoes, like she said he wore. Certainly this suspect knew what he was doing that night by wearing those things, but he didn’t count on me getting the plate number of the car he was driving that night.

Kathleen ID’d the same picture I did of Kane, we were both told he was Kane, but he only looked like him and that picture showed a lazy eye. I was the person who told Harvey Hines to show her the same line up he gave me and that she was living in San Jose at that time.

It is foolish for anyone to think she burnt her car and made that story up to get insurance money? She was going to her mothers home to take care of her , if she planed to burn her car, she could have done that near her home or her mothers home.

Z did not introduce himself as Zodiac when driving her around. And even if, KJ not necessarily had known about Z previous to having seen his sketch. Z wasn’t as present in the LA media as he was in the Bay Area.

However I do not know about any calls of Z regarding KJ, were there? If you have knowledge about such calls, please let me know when/where, thx.

If Z had sped off after KJ had run away, he obviously did not drive home (why actually not…?). It is likely that he had expected her to come back to get her car, sooner or later. Thus, he drove back, maybe had a short stop to buy some fire accelerant, he then waited nearby her car. Unsure for how long but no longer than an hour or so (time between KJ arriving at the police station and the reported fire). When KJ didn’t show up, Z realized that she wouldn’t return directly to her car but had gone to the police or left for some motel. He then lit up her car and left the scene (if not somebody else set the fire).

With the ‘couple’ arriving the next morning, itcould have been KJ and a husband or friend, who else should know about the car being there.

What appears to be a bit strange is the MOTIVE of Z:
KJ told to the police that she had believed her assailant followed her from Modesto on. Fine – but why should somebody do that? To follow any car from Modesto, ending up abducting the passengers? Z could not even have known that a girl was inside the car. Except he had seen her at some other spot, eg. a crossing or traffic light in Modesto.

So I now have a little list, starting with the woeman [sic!] + her baby that I gave a rather intersting [sic!] ride for a coupple [sic!] howers [sic!] one evening a few months back that ended in my burning her car where I found them.
July 24, 1970 letter to SF Chronicle

Therefore, Z claims to not having moved her car.

Not really the time to drive around to run some errands. Z had not only confessed to abducting and burning the car but also refers to his ‘little list’. He obviously did not know / remember the name of Kathleen Johns, at least pretends to not know by describing her as ‘woman’.

The crime had started on a Sunday night and had ended on a Monday in the early morning hours. With Z being in Modesto on a Sunday night, at 11:45 p.m., he possibly was not too far away from his residence. That would also ‘confirm’ why he did not drive around too much but had chosen to rather use some country roads. Now the theory: If Z had thought about abducting KJ, like even getting her to his residence, that residence must have been close to where KJ’s car had been found (e.g. Vernalis, Orchard RV park etc.).

QT

I have no more information than anyone else, unfortunately. It’s one of those weird little details amongst the dozens of weird little details in this case.

Perhaps the woman & man who came to inquire about the keys had some kind of macabre interest in the whole thing after having read about it in the paper. I don’t think the detail about Zodiac supposedly having taken the keys was published in the papers shortly after the incident. So perhaps these people visited around in different towing businesses (there must not have been that many in the area) and thought they could get the keys and have a weird true crime souvenir or perhaps to even use them to send copycat letters. Who knows.

QT, Howard Davis and his friend interviewed Kathleen Johns, I have seen her interview many times. And have a copy of one of those interviews ( The verbal one). However I have seen the filmed interview and have spoken to Howard many times about the KJ case. She told Howard about the calls and the Halloween card and that she and her husband went to the junk yard to see if there was anything not burned of hers or the baby’s, she said the car was gutted.

There was another reason that Zodiac could have been in the Modesto area that night. Joe Stine had challenged Zodiac and worked at a station off of 132, he could have gone to check out Joe Stine? Then saw a woman driving alone on 132 and felt it would be easy to kill her then claim he did it , just to taunt Joe Stine and show him that he was in his area.

Howard has a wonderful site that tells about the KJ case and other cases. The site is the Zodiac/Manson connection. He also wrote a very nice book with that title that I have.

QT, Howard Davis and his friend interviewed Kathleen Johns, I have seen her interview many times. And have a copy of one of those interviews ( The verbal one). However I have seen the filmed interview and have spoken to Howard many times about the KJ case. She told Howard about the calls and the Halloween card and that she and her husband went to the junk yard to see if there was anything not burned of hers or the baby’s, she said the car was gutted.

There was another reason that Zodiac could have been in the Modesto area that night. Joe Stine had challenged Zodiac and worked at a station off of 132, he could have gone to check out Joe Stine? Then saw a woman driving alone on 132 and felt it would be easy to kill her then claim he did it , just to taunt Joe Stine and show him that he was in his area.

Howard has a wonderful site that tells about the KJ case and other cases. The site is the Zodiac/Manson connection. He also wrote a very nice book with that title that I have.

Sandy, what do you make of Howard’s theory that Manson was involved in the Zodiac killings? Just wondering.

Or Paul S. himself ended his shift at the gas station with abducting KJ and burning her car…at least he had access to some gasoline.

Paul was bragging that the killer of his brother should come (only one would call a killer to give himself a visit…). Paul also his first name (bottom lid of the Scotch tape). And injuries in his face (‘three fingers’) after the homicide of his brother. Working near KJ abduction. Welsh appearance. Well, if we didn’t know it better….(do we?).

He wasn’t a student at RCC, too, was he ? On that occasion, where did Paul Stine actually serve his military service?

QT

QT, Howard Davis and his friend interviewed Kathleen Johns, I have seen her interview many times. And have a copy of one of those interviews ( The verbal one). However I have seen the filmed interview and have spoken to Howard many times about the KJ case. She told Howard about the calls and the Halloween card and that she and her husband went to the junk yard to see if there was anything not burned of hers or the baby’s, she said the car was gutted.

There was another reason that Zodiac could have been in the Modesto area that night. Joe Stine had challenged Zodiac and worked at a station off of 132, he could have gone to check out Joe Stine? Then saw a woman driving alone on 132 and felt it would be easy to kill her then claim he did it , just to taunt Joe Stine and show him that he was in his area.

Howard has a wonderful site that tells about the KJ case and other cases. The site is the Zodiac/Manson connection. He also wrote a very nice book with that title that I have.

Sandy, what do you make of Howard’s theory that Manson was involved in the Zodiac killings? Just wondering.

I think the world of Howard Davis, his suspect was part of the Manson family ( Bruce M Davis). That was mainly why he made that connection.

I do have reason to believe that Zodiac was Satanic, but no proof what so ever that he was connected to Manson. I interviewed some other person named Kathleen Johns and showed her the picture I have of my suspect. She asked me to come back later to show it to her husband. She said they belonged to the Church of Satan in S.F. and she was sure she had seen my suspect at that church. She said her husband went more often and would probably know the name of the man in my picture.

I left and never went back there again LOL. I have had upside down burnt crosses put in my front yard, all of my pets were killed, other dead animals were put in the front of my home. I believe my suspect is responsible for all of those very strange events and could be satanic? ( He claims to be thee Zodiac )

Yes, but why move Johns’ car, and how did he get back to his own car afterwards?

One possible reason is that after Johns escaped, she would have reported the location of her car to the police, and they would’ve dispatched someone to secure it. The abductor was in a race to get to it first, and then move it somewhere so he could have time to destroy it, and any evidence it may have contained. Burning the car to destroy evidence was probably part of the plan, but had he killed or otherwise secured Johns, there would have been more time, as John’s disappearance, and location of her car, would not have been known to the police. John’s escape turned it into a race to that location.

Just my thoughts on the matter…

But then his own car would have been left behind. Not much better.

How in the world could he have put her tire back on anyway? He went out and looked for the lost tire? And the car wasn’t seriously damaged from the fall resulting from losing a tire? He brought out his own tire and a jack to lift it and put a tire on and drive it away and burn it and then walk back to his own car?

Edit: k, clearly the car wasn’t moved.

If in fact Zodiac, moved her car to set it on fire, the tire had fallen off right away as she pulled out. So it was not far from her car, he wouldn’t need to use his tire to move her car if he indeed moved it? He claimed to have set that fire where he picked her up. That 132 road late at night has very little traffic, it wouldn’t be necessary to move it. Even now there are very few cars that late at night on that road.
One of my RH suspects had a father who had a ranch off of 132. I think Zodiac spotted Kathleen when she stopped at the gas station in Modesto. That could have been when he put gas in his car and filled his gas can? When I took long trips, I sometimes had a can filled with gas just in case I needed it. I doubt he was thinking of setting her car on fire when he first saw her, he did that out of anger, for her running away from him is my guess? He tormented her years later by calling her and sending the Halloween Card that Avery somehow lost! I still believe that Kathleen got the best description of Zodiac than anyone else! He had to use what little control he had not to kill her later on, he knew where she had moved, yet he let her live. He allowed Paul Avery to live, even though he gave him a warning that he could become a victim.

My suspect who claims to be Zodiac has allowed me to live, but that could be because I told him that if he killed me he would be caught, that I had given every police department in Calif his picture and gave them lots of documentation. That I was not afraid to die if it meant he would be caught. He has fired shots at me, but those may have been warning shots to stop investigating him? I have not heard from anyone else who has a suspect, who have had attempts on their lives? Twelve of my friends have had attempts on their lives, some stalked by one or both of my suspects, some were actually killed, two were made to look like suicides!

It is quite suspicious. Everything points to Johns lying and the car being left exactly where it was found and her being picked up exactly there. The idea that the Zodiac would have also went and found the wheel, jack the car up, put it back on, drive for a while, walk back to his vehicle, etc., is ridiculous and not backed by any facts. It’s possible Johns and her husband were the ones who came by. The story about the kidnapper taking the keys came later AFAIK, not at the time of her original testimony.

What I think happened?

Kathleen drover her car to that spot. One or two others drove along in a separate car.
The car is torched.
She is driven to the police station and left her to tell her lie.
Kathleen or the one(s) who drove her realize they forgot the keys in the car when they torched it. The keys likely had door keys or whatever attached to the keyholder. They go and get the keys back the next day.

The motive? Attention-seeking, or a conspiracy to throw the investigation off course by providing a false suspect description, a false vehicle description, or to get heat off a suspect by creating an alibi (as in, if they can convince LE she was kidnapped by the Zodiac, said suspect could prove he wasn’t there, creating a reverse alibi).

BTW anyone knows if her name was actually Kathleen L. Johns? There is a marriage record to such a name for August 1969 in San Bernardino, wondering if it’s her.