The Stine composite shows a thin face and Johns likened her "kidnapper" to that picture. She also estimated him to be 5’8" and 160 pounds.

There are many witnesses who put Z at up to about 6ft tall and heavyset – possibly over 200 pounds. There’s always the chance that Z was a bigger and heavier guy than the man who abducted Johns so perhaps he was happy to take the blame for this one in order to mislead LE into looking for someone smaller and lighter than he was? They were also looking for a guy with a specific type of car with kids’ clothes in the back so probably a father – another classic misdirection?

Who were the many witnesses that said he was about 6 ft tall ? The only one that I remember saying that, was Hartnell and that was because the hood made him look taller than he was. Mike M. said short about a head taller than Darlene’s car, SFPD said short. I still say that K. Johns gave the best description of Zodiac than anyone else, it is too bad that she was not believed.
There is a man who is in his 70’s now ,who fits her description to a tee ,with the same scars she said he had, who talks in a monotoned voice, still has those navy like wool pants, has the headband she said he had on that holds his glasses in place, has shiny wing-tipped shoes, and claims he is thee Zodiac. And yet no one seems to want to check him out, go figure.

The Stine composite shows a thin face and Johns likened her "kidnapper" to that picture. She also estimated him to be 5’8" and 160 pounds.

There are many witnesses who put Z at up to about 6ft tall and heavyset – possibly over 200 pounds. There’s always the chance that Z was a bigger and heavier guy than the man who abducted Johns so perhaps he was happy to take the blame for this one in order to mislead LE into looking for someone smaller and lighter than he was? They were also looking for a guy with a specific type of car with kids’ clothes in the back so probably a father – another classic misdirection?

Who were the many witnesses that said he was about 6 ft tall ? The only one that I remember saying that, was Hartnell and that was because the hood made him look taller than he was. Mike M. said short about a head taller than Darlene’s car, SFPD said short. I still say that K. Johns gave the best description of Zodiac than anyone else, it is too bad that she was not believed.
There is a man who is in his 70’s now ,who fits her description to a tee ,with the same scars she said he had, who talks in a monotoned voice, still has those navy like wool pants, has the headband she said he had on that holds his glasses in place, has shiny wing-tipped shoes, and claims he is thee Zodiac. And yet no one seems to want to check him out, go figure.

Maybe I missed it, but who’s that? Your POI?

QT

The Stine composite shows a thin face and Johns likened her "kidnapper" to that picture. She also estimated him to be 5’8" and 160 pounds.

There are many witnesses who put Z at up to about 6ft tall and heavyset – possibly over 200 pounds. There’s always the chance that Z was a bigger and heavier guy than the man who abducted Johns so perhaps he was happy to take the blame for this one in order to mislead LE into looking for someone smaller and lighter than he was? They were also looking for a guy with a specific type of car with kids’ clothes in the back so probably a father – another classic misdirection?

Who were the many witnesses that said he was about 6 ft tall ? The only one that I remember saying that, was Hartnell and that was because the hood made him look taller than he was. Mike M. said short about a head taller than Darlene’s car, SFPD said short. I still say that K. Johns gave the best description of Zodiac than anyone else, it is too bad that she was not believed.
There is a man who is in his 70’s now ,who fits her description to a tee ,with the same scars she said he had, who talks in a monotoned voice, still has those navy like wool pants, has the headband she said he had on that holds his glasses in place, has shiny wing-tipped shoes, and claims he is thee Zodiac. And yet no one seems to want to check him out, go figure.

Maybe I missed it, but who’s that? Your POI?

QT

Yes that would be who he is.

"By FIRE" Z wrote in his Halloween card 10/27/70. About 7 months earlier John’s wagon, of course, was found ‘on Bird Rd. burned’ by her abductor. A link.

Now, when we say when KJ saw the Z poster or as she told me the’ second drawing’ she said that the composite looked like the man who abducted her. But, ‘looked’ was just the face, at that point when she first saw the poster, it included the glasses, being clean shaved and crew cut(as per Z at PH). We are not focused on that part only or the face ,and a lot of men looked like that, etc.; but we are including the whole appearance which very much resembled Z at PH!!!
Not only the face, but the dark rimmed glasses, crew cut and clean shaven face, and overall ‘neat appearance’- as the three teens and Officer F saw at PH -but also the dark baggy slacks, dark zipper nylon ski type jacket too. So it’s the entire appearance that looked like Z not just his bare face. Not only that, but we have that monotone voice witnesses spoke about as per BH, Slover.

Z it has been noted Z attacked in unincorporated LE areas. This happened also at LT another disputed Z attack. We have two LE depts. In the Johns case we have this fact too-Stanislaus and San Joaquin Counties.

It can be assumed Z ‘waited’ some four months to mention Johns, but how do we know he waited per se? He did other things in his life too(we can read about other serial killers who even worked had a family and just engaged in various life activities) -all we know about are very terse periods of time and those were limited to the classic Z attacks at LHR, BRS,LB and PH and 132 when he attacked victims! No he would not be waiting. He may have been killing too as we all know he was well ‘capable’ of doing that as he wrote in his 1/29/74 note.
Insp. Toschi thought that the Zebra murders in S.F. ‘smoked’ Z out’ of hiding as it were ,and this caused him to write that underlying threatening note.
We do not know when Z read about Johns or even heard (on the radio?)about her, but when he did it may have triggered him to write about it as some were doubting it was him. And it needs to be stressed that attack 3/22/70 was an utter failure and the victim was a seemingly helpless pregnant young female with a child in her arms yet she escaped the great killer Z boasted himself as being to the public and the police! And yes, Z claimed her!

We know Z would bring out future plans, say, about his bomb going off a few months later, etc. In the Dripping Pen card 11/9/69 he may have concealed (Z enjoyed codes ,etc.)a future plan- as per researcher Rodelli- to address the open bold public challenge to Z from Paul Stine’s brother in October 1969. He must have known about 132 and that Joe and Paul Stine’s sister took this road to her mother’s each year for her March 19th B Day.
We have that Christmas card sent to Donna Lass’ older sister in 1974. Then we have that attempt to get her or Carol Stine to pull over, etc.
I believe Z thought killing Stine’s sister and possibly burning her car with her in it(?) would create astounding news which he always craved and strove for and called "bad News" in the card ; and that he would do his " Thing" if ignored in that Pen card written about four months earlier.
He failed at this attempt and then tried for those two men who were on 132 as found in the police report. Johns was I believe a substitute.
It would have taken place in the area where Joe Stine worked and lived too thus in Z’s mind sending fear into Joe as well as that community, of course,the media having a Z day too. I think he was concerned about attacking Joe Stine directly since he so boldly and publically laid out his schedule each day even saying where he worked. Z may have suspected the police were setting a trap as we had in S.F. relative to talking to Belli when in reality police were watching the area.

It would not have been a traditional ‘wait’ that’s for sure! Z kept busy no doubt.

"By FIRE" Z wrote in his Halloween card 10/27/70. About 7 months earlier John’s wagon, of course, was found ‘on Bird Rd. burned’ by her abductor. A link.

Now, when we say when KJ saw the Z poster or as she told me the’ second drawing’ she said that the composite looked like the man who abducted her. But, ‘looked’ was just the face, at that point when she first saw the poster, it included the glasses, being clean shaved and crew cut(as per Z at PH). We are not focused on that part only or the face ,and a lot of men looked like that, etc.; but we are including the whole appearance which very much resembled Z at PH!!!
Not only the face, but the dark rimmed glasses, crew cut and clean shaven face, and overall ‘neat appearance’- as the three teens and Officer F saw at PH -but also the dark baggy slacks, dark zipper nylon ski type jacket too. So it’s the entire appearance that looked like Z not just his bare face. Not only that, but we have that monotone voice witnesses spoke about as per BH, Slover.

Z it has been noted Z attacked in unincorporated LE areas. This happened also at LT another disputed Z attack. We have two LE depts. In the Johns case we have this fact too-Stanislaus and San Joaquin Counties.

It can be assumed Z ‘waited’ some four months to mention Johns, but how do we know he waited per se? He did other things in his life too(we can read about other serial killers who even worked had a family and just engaged in various life activities) -all we know about are very terse periods of time and those were limited to the classic Z attacks at LHR, BRS,LB and PH and 132 when he attacked victims! No he would not be waiting. He may have been killing too as we all know he was well ‘capable’ of doing that as he wrote in his 1/29/74 note.
Insp. Toschi thought that the Zebra murders in S.F. ‘smoked’ Z out’ of hiding as it were ,and this caused him to write that underlying threatening note.
We do not know when Z read about Johns or even heard (on the radio?)about her, but when he did it may have triggered him to write about it as some were doubting it was him. And it needs to be stressed that attack 3/22/70 was an utter failure and the victim was a seemingly helpless pregnant young female with a child in her arms yet she escaped the great killer Z boasted himself as being to the public and the police! And yes, Z claimed her!

We know Z would bring out future plans, say, about his bomb going off a few months later, etc. In the Dripping Pen card 11/9/69 he may have concealed (Z enjoyed codes ,etc.)a future plan- as per researcher Rodelli- to address the open bold public challenge to Z from Paul Stine’s brother in October 1969. He must have known about 132 and that Joe and Paul Stine’s sister took this road to her mother’s each year for her March 19th B Day.
We have that Christmas card sent to Donna Lass’ older sister in 1974. Then we have that attempt to get her or Carol Stine to pull over, etc.
I believe Z thought killing Stine’s sister and possibly burning her car with her in it(?) would create astounding news which he always craved and strove for and called "bad News" in the card ; and that he would do his " Thing" if ignored in that Pen card written about four months earlier.
He failed at this attempt and then tried for those two men who were on 132 as found in the police report. Johns was I believe a substitute.
It would have taken place in the area where Joe Stine worked and lived too thus in Z’s mind sending fear into Joe as well as that community, of course,the media having a Z day too. I think he was concerned about attacking Joe Stine directly since he so boldly and publically laid out his schedule each day even saying where he worked. Z may have suspected the police were setting a trap as we had in S.F. relative to talking to Belli when in reality police were watching the area.

It would not have been a traditional ‘wait’ that’s for sure! Z kept busy no doubt.

bruce3, I concur with everything you stated and while I was reading your post ,I thought about another reason Zodiac admitted to giving K.J. that ride. He wanted her to know who he was, to frighten her and to give her an indirect threat, besides letting Joe Stine know he was in area of where he worked, so he could put two and two together about the incident with Carol. He loved instilling fear , like he did when he sent the cards to Paul Stine , Kathleen and Donna Lass’s Sister Mary. He didn’t kill them, because he took joy in letting them live with the fear of when and where he might do his thing to them, is what I believe.

I have to wonder why he never did this stuff with Bryan. And the jury is still out on the card to Donna’s sister. That one certainly looks nothing like Zodiac’s.

Or Fouke, MM or the family of Faraday and Jensen, etc. We do not expect Z will do the exact same thing in every single case! Nor do we expect that with other serial killers either which research into their MO-Sig’ has revealed as well as their lives-crimes.

There are those who reject LB as a Z because Z didn’t just shoot them in a car ;after all at one point they were in a car and all he had to do is ‘wait’ for them to get back into their car and walk up a shoot them.

Why didn’t Z write a letter after LB and send it to the editor? He did this with BRS in a (2)letter/s and in a call to Slover ( ‘I killed those two kids last year’ or ’68 )belatedly, which was about 7 months later! Johns only had to ‘wait’ 4 months to get her claim! I guess he ‘waited’ to claim LHR! As to Z had to phone belief. No claim by phone after LHR and none after PH.
This has been ignored in this area of discussion, or that Z ‘waited’ until the one year anniversary of LHR to send a missive. The missive to Belli was dated 12/20/69! The Z Pines postcard (it too like Z’s Halloween card was hand ‘brushed lettered’ and Morrill said all lettering on the Pines was very similar to Z’s) was postmarked 3/22/71 to mark KJ. Keep in mind this one year anniversary PM by Z was very rare.

Z sometimes sent cards and sometime letters in envelopes. His penmanship/penpersonship! was neat at times as we have with Belli other times ‘sloppy. ‘He changed stamps at times.

As to the 1974 Christmas card to Lass’ sister had double postage or over postage like Z. Lettering is similar. Underlining’s air mail like Z’s 3/13/’71. We must realize about 4 years had elapsed since the last Z missive so some change is to be expected. I have written about this in detail.
Z had sent Joseph Bates a note. Of course, for those who reject Z here then that’s a mute point.

http://www.thezodiacmansonconnection.com/74_christmas_card.htm l”> http://web.archive.org/web/200812122300 … _card.html

Who were the many witnesses that said he was about 6 ft tall ? The only one that I remember saying that, was Hartnell and that was because the hood made him look taller than he was. Mike M. said short about a head taller than Darlene’s car, SFPD said short. I still say that K. Johns gave the best description of Zodiac than anyone else, it is too bad that she was not believed.

Hartnell said about 6ft tall, Cecelia said about 5’11" – and she saw Z next to a tree without his hood on. Fouke’s first estimate was between 5’10" and 6ft. The 3 girls at LB said the creepy guy dressed in dark with something white hanging out the back of his waistband was 6ft, 6ft and 6’2" respectively.

Obviously we can’t be too sure who exactly saw Z and how good they were at guessing his exact height but these are all witness statements on record and any of them may be right (along with the witnesses who also estimated about 5’8" of course).

I have to wonder why he never did this stuff with Bryan. And the jury is still out on the card to Donna’s sister. That one certainly looks nothing like Zodiac’s.

Do we have zodiac’s cursive to compare to the Lass sister Xmas card? No, there is no confirmed zodiac cursive, so no way to confirm whether it is zodiac or not.

Bruce, I agree, there are some things in the Xmas card that are like z

I have to wonder why he never did this stuff with Bryan. And the jury is still out on the card to Donna’s sister. That one certainly looks nothing like Zodiac’s.

Do we have zodiac’s cursive to compare to the Lass sister Xmas card? No, there is no confirmed zodiac cursive, so no way to confirm whether it is zodiac or not.

Bruce, I agree, there are some things in the Xmas card that are like z

There is this envelope, however I only got a low-res..do we know where it was stamped?

QT

"Do we know where it was stamped?"

If you are referring to the Lass sister xmas card, it was postmarked in Alameda County, Pleasanton as I recall.

I was reading up on some unrelated Z stuff just now and came across a remark pertaining to Johns and whether Z was the culprit or not. Similar remarks are a dime and dozen and the gist of it all is this:

Why would Z take credit for an unsuccessful attack?

This has been used to support all possible takes on the Johns affair (Z did it and wrote about it, Z didn’t do it but wrote about it, Z didn’t do it and didn’t write about it…) but what struck me is simply this:

From the perpetrator’s point of view, the Johns incident wasn’t necessarily "unsuccessful". Whether it was or not depends entirely on what his intentions were. If he intended to kill Johns or otherwise harm her physically, then it was obviously not a success. But if the intention was, simply, as the letter writer says, to give Johns an "interesting" ride (that is, to scare the "woeman"), then that is precisely what he did.

And – in one possible scenario – the above may be what Z, the letter writer, thought too: The idea of frightening someone in this fashion appealed to him. He didn’t regard the incident as a botched attempt at murder or rape, but rather as a successful attempt at scaring the crap out of an innocent "woeman".

Just a thought.

I have no doubt that she was given a ride by Zodiac , she did ID the very same picture in a line up as I did a few weeks before, of the same man I got away from in Vallejo/Napa 1968, whom I believe was Zodiac. What are the odds of that I wonder ?

That man is still alive by the way and looks to be a healthy 70 -75 yrs old.

I hope the Halloween card she received from Zodiac and gave to Paul Avery will be found ,then perhaps people will believe it was Zodiac yet again enjoying the taunting of his victim.

By Zodiac admitting he gave her a rather interesting ride ,he wanted everyone to know that he could be anywhere and that no one was safe from him. (Spreading more fear)

…Spreading more fear…

Yes – that was a key element for him, I have no doubt about that, Sandy.

It’s actually precisely the thing which caught my attention when reading the remark mentioned above: Regarding the incident as "unsuccessful" (which many tend to do) may be misleading, because Z’s "agenda" may have been much more about just that – spreading fear – than about, in a word, violence.

Vague, I know – but it’s something which comes back to me frequently.