Umm, what exactly did Z offer by way of detailed and specific evidence when it comes to Lake Berryessa? He seemed uninterested in any letter to confirm it was him and instead wrote corresponding dates of known Zodiac attacks and added the current date Sep 27 as the new one at this location and added, just incase we missed his method of operation on this instance that it was "By Knife.

I think those who believe this to be Zodiac would argue that the writing on the car door was his proof he was there.

I don’t question that T, I question his unusual silence and lack of mention at all in any letters to this specific incident and the reasons why?

It would seem The Z. gave details to prove having committed the crimes, so my speculation would be there was no need for promotion having left a living witness, made a phone call, left a footnote on the door, and been seen wearing the official Zodiac suit.

People can doubt her story, but please provide a valid possible reason for it. Why would she, while pregnant and with a young child, ditch her car in th emiddle of nowhere, burn it, and then make up the z story? Also, she was on her way to visit her sick mother, which seems like an odd time to try and pull a stunt like this. I have to give her the benefit of the doubt. In my opinion, at worst, perhaps it really happened, but she twisted some of it to get herself involved in the zodiac case for attention. At best, she really took a ride with Zodiac. Her story very closely resembles the very same M.O. used in this 1967 southern CA incidents in which women were attacked in this very same way but were able to escape and tell their stories. If you have not checked out that thread, you may want to do so here:
viewtopic.php?f=34&t=44

Since there is already a very good possibility Z was operating in Southern CA in the early to mid 1960’s,(Domingos/Edwards/Bates) this is not far fetched.

Re: Kathleen Johns..
Post by Victor » Fri Aug 30, 2013 10:45 am

"Well, in all four (LHR, BRS, LB, and SF) confirmed Zodiac attacks, The Z. either left no living witnesses or made sure they didn’t easily escape. Without analyzing the Z. letters and newspaper articles, I’ll say The Z. announced the crime details afterwards (from experience) and didn’t destroy any evidence. You add the police not taking her "seriously", perhaps, because she wasn’t convincing or able to provide a license plate #. I would have written down or memorized a plate # at some time between having allowed a stranger to work on my car, it break down afterwards, him offer me a ride, and miraculously escape from him in the middle of the night with my child."

What’s so wrong with that scenario? It happened multiple times, in the link I provided above. Multiple women, pulled over by a man flashing his lights, and telling them their wheel was wobbling. All escaped with minor injuries. Plus, all of us would think or hope to try and remember a plate#, but who knows what we would do in that same situation?

People can doubt her story, but please provide a valid possible reason for it. Why would she, while pregnant and with a young child, ditch her car in th emiddle of nowhere, burn it, and then make up the z story? Also, she was on her way to visit her sick mother, which seems like an odd time to try and pull a stunt like this. I have to give her the benefit of the doubt. In my opinion, at worst, perhaps it really happened, but she twisted some of it to get herself involved in the zodiac case for attention. At best, she really took a ride with Zodiac. Her story very closely resembles the very same M.O. used in this 1967 southern CA incidents in which women were attacked in this very same way but were able to escape and tell their stories. If you have not checked out that thread, you may want to do so here:
viewtopic.php?f=34&t=44

Since there is already a very good possibility Z was operating in Southern CA in the early to mid 1960’s,(Domingos/Edwards/Bates) this is not far fetched.

Re: Kathleen Johns..
Post by Victor » Fri Aug 30, 2013 10:45 am

"Well, in all four (LHR, BRS, LB, and SF) confirmed Zodiac attacks, The Z. either left no living witnesses or made sure they didn’t easily escape. Without analyzing the Z. letters and newspaper articles, I’ll say The Z. announced the crime details afterwards (from experience) and didn’t destroy any evidence. You add the police not taking her "seriously", perhaps, because she wasn’t convincing or able to provide a license plate #. I would have written down or memorized a plate # at some time between having allowed a stranger to work on my car, it break down afterwards, him offer me a ride, and miraculously escape from him in the middle of the night with my child."

What’s so wrong with that scenario? It happened multiple times, in the link I provided above. Multiple women, pulled over by a man flashing his lights, and telling them their wheel was wobbling. All escaped with minor injuries. Plus, all of us would think or hope to try and remember a plate#, but who knows what we would do in that same situation?

Based on what I’ve pointed out, including Welsh Chappie’s find on the very possible whereabouts of her keys in her burnt car, this doesn’t seem to be The Z.

Kathy Johns also thought, at one point, that Bruce Davis looked a lot like her kidnapper.

Sure that this in fact was not meant to be the case of ‘Brenda Harrison’?

QT

Kathy Johns also thought, at one point, that Bruce Davis looked a lot like her kidnapper.

Sure that this in fact was not meant to be the case of ‘Brenda Harrison’?

QT

QT, I don’t really reference the spreadsheet. in fact, I think its been moved or my access to it removed.

HI Zodiac Hunters. I have two photos of a man I suspect kidnapped Kathleen Johns and was seen at scene of Paul Stine’s murder. Is there any way to upload a photo on this site?

In my view, there were two killers who carried out the murders in order to confuse witnesses, surveyors, police, the evidence and the public.

One of them came in from out of town just for the purpose of being spotted, so that once he was gone home, his accomplice could carry on without anyone suspecting him.

I have photos of both men if anyone knows how to post photos here.

both of these men had opportunity, motive, know-how and were crazy enough to have pulled this off. One was an ex-cop and the other and ex merchant marine. They were cousins. One is dead while the other just turned 70, having retired after decades of driving long haul. He is in great physical condition, too!

I agree with you Morf:
What’s so wrong with that scenario? It happened multiple times, in the link I provided above. Multiple women, pulled over by a man flashing his lights, and telling them their wheel was wobbling. All escaped with minor injuries. Plus, all of us would think or hope to try and remember a plate#, but who knows what we would do in that same situation?

I have seen flashing lights and had a man trying to force me off of a road late at night, ( I would not pull over) who just happened to have the "dead pan" eyes K Johns spoke of. On one occation he pointed a gun at me. (In 1968 he drove a light brown Mercury Comet , it would have had bucket seats and a center console.) No you don’t know what you will do at the time, except try to get away , which Johns did.
The man I believe was Zodiac, certainly didn’t think that she would jump from his car, he didn’t anticipate having to stop and back up , giving her the chance to get away.
The idea that the clothes she saw in the back seat, are not relevant to the Zodiac case, I think is just the opposite . If this was Zodiac and of course I do believe more so than not that it was , then we might entertain the thought that he may have been a married man with perhaps two young boys, ages perhaps 8-10 . Who also had a light colored car with bucket seats and center console. That to me is better than dismissing the idea altogether and losing information that could bring us closer to who he could have been .
K.J. said that he took the keys, if the keys were found on the front seat of the car later, then the Zodiac could have threwn them on the seat just before he started the fire. (She wouldn’t have put them there.) It is likely the couple who showed up to look at the car were K.J. and her husband, to see the damage and to see if they could retrieve anything of theirs .

I agree with you Morf:
What’s so wrong with that scenario? It happened multiple times, in the link I provided above. Multiple women, pulled over by a man flashing his lights, and telling them their wheel was wobbling. All escaped with minor injuries. Plus, all of us would think or hope to try and remember a plate#, but who knows what we would do in that same situation?

I have seen flashing lights and had a man trying to force me off of a road late at night, ( I would not pull over) who just happened to have the "dead pan" eyes K Johns spoke of. On one occation he pointed a gun at me. (In 1968 he drove a light brown Mercury Comet , it would have had bucket seats and a center console.) No you don’t know what you will do at the time, except try to get away , which Johns did.
The man I believe was Zodiac, certainly didn’t think that she would jump from his car, he didn’t anticipate having to stop and back up , giving her the chance to get away.
The idea that the clothes she saw in the back seat, are not relevant to the Zodiac case, I think is just the opposite . If this was Zodiac and of course I do believe more so than not that it was , then we might entertain the thought that he may have been a married man with perhaps two young boys, ages perhaps 8-10 . Who also had a light colored car with bucket seats and center console. That to me is better than dismissing the idea altogether and losing information that could bring us closer to who he could have been .
K.J. said that he took the keys, if the keys were found on the front seat of the car later, then the Zodiac could have threwn them on the seat just before he started the fire. (She wouldn’t have put them there.) It is likely the couple who showed up to look at the car were K.J. and her husband, to see the damage and to see if they could retrieve anything of theirs .

Have you filed a police report?

Victor, I have filed many police reports and everything has been documented over the yrs. LE has told me that there is nothing they can do to help, because he hasn’t harmed me other than threats and shots that have missed me. He makes sure that there are never any witnesses when he points a gun or fires it at me. There have been others that have seen him parked on the street where I live , but they don’t want get involved by calling the police. I have neighbors that saw him go over the fense with a gun in his hand, but because they had smoked some pot didn’t call the police . Movie stars can get things done when this sort of stalker plays with them , but sadly not the average person. I have even asked for help by sending a letter to the attorney General , she told me I need to report all of it to my local police dept. My reason for sending a letter to her, was because I can’t get my local police dept to do anything LOL. They all pass the buck so to speak. That is why I carry a gun and sleep with one next to me, I have to protect myself.
Taking a picture of this man was the smartest but was a very dangerous thing to do. I made sure I had a bodyguard with me when I did that. The man knows that his picture is kept at the police station in my file. ( I told him )I am pretty sure he knows that it is also on the internet, but can’t do anything about it, because he won’t dare come forward. His picture has been on Zodiac Vortex site for many yrs now, but it is listed as being Larry Kane. Now that I know he is not Kane, but only a look alike , I can understand why he hasn’t asked the host of Zodiac Vortex to take it down. K. Johns and I both thought the picture we picked out of a line up was that of Larry Kane, she died not knowing it was a picture of someone else thought to be Kane.
That is why I think in one of his phone calls to me, he called himself uncle Larry. He also seems to be reading some of my posts, I do have problems whenever I upset him in a post. Like saying the Zodiac is a sick coward who is hiding under a rock someplace.

HI Zodiac Hunters. I have two photos of a man I suspect kidnapped Kathleen Johns and was seen at scene of Paul Stine’s murder. Is there any way to upload a photo on this site?

In my view, there were two killers who carried out the murders in order to confuse witnesses, surveyors, police, the evidence and the public.

One of them came in from out of town just for the purpose of being spotted, so that once he was gone home, his accomplice could carry on without anyone suspecting him.

I have photos of both men if anyone knows how to post photos here.

both of these men had opportunity, motive, know-how and were crazy enough to have pulled this off. One was an ex-cop and the other and ex merchant marine. They were cousins. One is dead while the other just turned 70, having retired after decades of driving long haul. He is in great physical condition, too!

TRUEBLUE…
Please PM me before you post the photos of these guys on here.

Any news?

Meantime, I hadn’t read this text from the Modesto Bee in a while, and it got me Googling. I’d never bothered before:

Woman Says Zodiac
Killer Captured her

PATTERSON— A near-hysterical young San Bernardino mother, who said she was driven around captive for two hours last night, identified her captor as Ihe notorious Zodiac killer suspecled of numerous bay area murders. Mrs. Kathleen Johns, 22, pointed out drawings of the Zodiac killer in the police station here as she was being questioned by Sgt. Charles McNall about her bizzare experience on roads in this area.

Wheel Falls Off

She said that she and her 10-month-old daughter were headed toward Petaluma to visit her sick mother when she stopped in answer to another car’s blinking lighls. A man, she said, got oul of the other car, on Maze Road near Interstate 5, and came toward her, tire tool in hand, sayng, "Your rear wheel is wobbling, I’ll lighten the lugs." Mrs. Johns, seven months pregnant, said she heard him work on the wheel, she thanked him and he drove off. As she pulled away from her parking spot, however, the wheel fell off. She said only one lug remained. The man returned and offered her a ride lo a service station, she said. But instead of going to to the service station, he left Ihe highway and drove around side roads for Iwo hours, until shortly after midnight. She said he said hardly anything and did not threaten her or her baby. Finally, Mrs. Johns said, she told the man she was going to be sick and jumped out the car with the baby in her arms. She was picked up by a passerby shortly after that and came to Patterson lo report Ihe incident lo the police.

Points To Poster

Sgl. McNall said he had just quieted her hysterical crying when she saw the Zodiac Killer drawing on a wall poster and said, "That’s the man. That’s the man!’ McNall said she had several good looks at her captor, since he had walked in front of her headlights. Mrs. Johns said that she and her daughter had set out at 4pm. yeslerday from San Barnardino. Authorities later this morning encountered anolher curious happening, about which they have not yet theorized: Mrs Johns’ car was found totally burned al Byrd Road and Highway 132, near where she thinks she stopped when her wheel fell off.

MODESTO BEE
MARCH 23, 1970

Is "Maze Road" really Maze Boulevard, do you suppose? It becomes Vernalis Road where it intersects with I5.
Is "Byrd Road" really South Bird Road, do you suppose? That’s the other side of that same I5 intersection – perfectly understandable…..

On google maps I ended up with:
San Bernardino, CA, United States
Maze Boulevard, Modesto, CA, United States
South Bird Road, Tracy, CA, United States
Petaluma, CA, United States
Patterson, CA, United States
….which makes more sense of the "car was burned somewhere else" thing. It just means she was mistaken about which direction she took when she drove off I5 when he (presumably) started flashing at her near the freeway junction.
Yes?

One thing. It’s a 7 hour drive from San Bernardino to Petaluma, and seven-months-pregnant Kathleen must have left it late starting out, to encounter our boy at 10pm or thereabouts, at the I5 junction at Modesto. At that point she’d been driving for 5 1/2 hours and had maybe another 90 minutes to go. Silly.

@Trueblue

I am curious about what you had mentioned..would you mind sending a persona message with more details about them? Also would I like to compare with the my-name-is-cipher, out of 18,000 names I have not found one single real name that would fit that cipher..

QT

Is "Maze Road" really Maze Boulevard, do you suppose? It becomes Vernalis Road where it intersects with I5.
Is "Byrd Road" really South Bird Road, do you suppose? That’s the other side of that same I5 intersection – perfectly understandable…..

On google maps I ended up with:
San Bernardino, CA, United States
Maze Boulevard, Modesto, CA, United States
South Bird Road, Tracy, CA, United States
Petaluma, CA, United States
Patterson, CA, United States
….which makes more sense of the "car was burned somewhere else" thing. It just means she was mistaken about which direction she took when she drove off I5 when he (presumably) started flashing at her near the freeway junction.
Yes?

I have no doubt her car was not moved. I-5 was not open from (hwy 132) north. KJ would have had to continue on to 580…and this would have made sense anyway if driving to Petaluma.

She mentioned being able to see the gas station–the one she thought he would take her to (on Chrisman). This would not have been possible East of I-5.

132 is Maze and Byrd was Bird. I question the whole "Vernalis Rd." thing..I don’t always trust google and that is weird for it to just change like that on a straight road. But, if that part is Vernalis today, who knows what it was back then. Most people probably just refered to it as HWY 132. 132/Bird…her car was found, along with the hubcap (?) that had come off. It makes sense it would have come off where the car was originally abandoned, imo.

I agree. I think we can turn our back on previous confusion and say "it was found exactly where she abandoned it". No? Yes!

smithy » Tue Oct 08, 2013 12:51 pm

I agree. I think we can turn our back on previous confusion and say "it was found exactly where she abandoned it". No? Yes!

Personally, I think that’s most likely. But then again, I’m not at all comfortable that this was a Z crime to begin with.