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Zodiac Communications Authentication

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(@greek1453)
Posts: 6
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Topic starter
 

Hi- I just joined. Fascinated for a long time with this case.

Question: how were Zodiac communications (letters, etc.) authenticated? (Beyond the first few which were made before the information therein was published.). More specifically the Stine case- although The Stine communication was obviously from the Stine killer (or a cohort) due to the shirt piece, etc.) how are we sure that was Zodiac? Did Zodiac have a authenticator symbol, etc. that was not released? Seems like any copycat could have killed Stine unless this was the case.

 
Posted : June 24, 2021 2:41 pm
Richard Grinell
(@richard-grinell)
Posts: 717
Prominent Member
 

The Bus Bomb letter on November 9th 1969 contained a shirt piece. It also contained information pinpointing where the two cops were – unreleased to the public.

https://www.zodiacciphers.com/

“I simply cannot accept that there are, on every story, two equal and logical sides to an argument.” Edward R. Murrow.

 
Posted : June 24, 2021 3:56 pm
(@greek1453)
Posts: 6
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Topic starter
 

Thx for the reply. I realize that the person who sent the letter was the Stine killer due to the shirt piece, etc. But how do we know it was Zodiac and not just a copycat?

Was there some authentication that the letter writer used (that hadn’t been published where anyone could see it) to conclusively tie the Stine killer to the previous (authenticated) killings? Or was there conclusive evidence such as the same gun being ballistically determined to have been used on Stine as well as MM and DF?

 
Posted : June 24, 2021 5:00 pm
(@coffee-time)
Posts: 624
Honorable Member
 

None of the envelopes had been published at the time of the Stine murder, so he was the luckiest copycat in history if he guessed all those details.

 
Posted : June 24, 2021 9:09 pm
(@greek1453)
Posts: 6
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Topic starter
 

How did the envelopes authenticate the sender of the bus letter with Stine’s shirt piece as being the Zodiac himself? Too bad the crosshairs symbol leaked- would have been a great authenticator.

 
Posted : June 25, 2021 2:37 am
Russ Thompson
(@russ-thompson)
Posts: 268
Reputable Member
 

The Bus Bomb letter on November 9th 1969 contained a shirt piece…

Responding to Zodiac’s first letters, law enforcement challenged the poison pen writer to ‘prove’ who he was. Meaning law enforcement did not just take his word for it that he was the killer (and of course wanted him to give up more clues!)
The killer responded ‘happily’ in future letters with details that only he and police should know – to prove he was the bad guy he claimed to be.
This actually became a stickling point for the killer because he wanted his letters-from-the-killer taken seriously.
A goal in the Stine killing obviously was to claim an inarguable trophy that proved he is the killer: Stine’s bloodied shirt tail. (It was his eforts at cutting away the piece of Stine’s shirt within the cab that were witnessed and initiated police calls to the scene).
Zodiac then included swatches of this bloody shirt rag in his letters to prove for certain "This is the Zodiac speaking…"
Zodiac also took the cab keys but these were never mailed and never recovered.

That was too much!

 
Posted : June 25, 2021 4:25 am
(@greek1453)
Posts: 6
Active Member
Topic starter
 

But Zodiac was challenged publicly, correct? To provide more info. So anyone would know that, including a would-be copycat. Perhaps I’m miscommunicating- I’m not arguing that the person who killed Stine was not the author of the bus letter (obviously with the shirt piece, etc. as solid verification, he was.). But what definitively connects this individual firmly to the two couple shootings which were Zodiac’s? As I said was there an authenticator? Thanks to all for responding!!!

 
Posted : June 25, 2021 7:26 am
(@coffee-time)
Posts: 624
Honorable Member
 

How did the envelopes authenticate the sender of the bus letter with Stine’s shirt piece as being the Zodiac himself?

https://zodiackiller.com/Letters.html

 
Posted : June 25, 2021 11:11 am
Richard Grinell
(@richard-grinell)
Posts: 717
Prominent Member
 

Reverse the argument – what is the evidence for a copycat? Even if the envelope styles were different from crime to crime, it’s still no reason to conclude a copycat. An author has the ability to change style, just like the Zodiac had the ability to commit a murder in Presidio Heights that differed from his previous crimes. Just because we can’t authenticate certain letters as Zodiac, doesn’t mean we have to automatically conclude that it was a copycat.

https://www.zodiacciphers.com/

“I simply cannot accept that there are, on every story, two equal and logical sides to an argument.” Edward R. Murrow.

 
Posted : June 25, 2021 11:38 am
Druzer, Druzer and Druzer reacted
(@greek1453)
Posts: 6
Active Member
Topic starter
 

Thanks much for the feedback! Yes, upon relooking at the bus bomb letter again it would be difficult to fake Zodiac’s handwriting for that long. Almost a certainty it’s him. I’m convinced. Thanks all!!! Weird that after the first three similar slayings of couples in the boondocks he killed a single man in the middle of a city. Similar to the Texarkana Phantom tho so not unheard of.)

 
Posted : June 25, 2021 4:39 pm
(@cragle)
Posts: 767
Prominent Member
 

Also the stamps which were used by Z virtually all came from the same book. If you discard the ones with the shirt pieces in. It just so happens that the only stamps that would have not been used in the book happened to be the ones which were on these letters, if you catch my drift.

 
Posted : June 25, 2021 8:55 pm
(@ohforcryingoutloud)
Posts: 10
Active Member
 

Just reading the recent Cheri Bates letter news. this bit:

Investigators confirmed, the person was not involved in the murder of Cheri Jo Bates or involved in the murders associated with the “Zodiac Killer.” Additional information was developed regarding a separate set of letters sent to Northern California police agencies. The author claimed to be the “Zodiac Killer,” but the author ultimately admitted to sending the letters to keep the investigation going.“

Does this mean they have identified a writer of fake Zodiac letters?

 
Posted : August 24, 2021 6:21 am
(@druzer)
Posts: 229
Estimable Member
 
Posted by: @ohforcryingoutloud

Just reading the recent Cheri Bates letter news. this bit:

Investigators confirmed, the person was not involved in the murder of Cheri Jo Bates or involved in the murders associated with the “Zodiac Killer.” Additional information was developed regarding a separate set of letters sent to Northern California police agencies. The author claimed to be the “Zodiac Killer,” but the author ultimately admitted to sending the letters to keep the investigation going.“

Does this mean they have identified a writer of fake Zodiac letters?

If we take the representative from Riverside at their word that they have access to Zodiac DNA (which we did not know existed) and DNA from multiple Zodiac hoax letters sent to police agencies (which we didn’t know existed) then yes. However, it is far easier to believe that they only tested the 67 letters and that by determining them to be a hoax they feel confident in asserting that there is no longer a reason to imagine a connection between their killer and the Zodiac.

 
Posted : August 24, 2021 2:16 pm
(@ohforcryingoutloud)
Posts: 10
Active Member
 

@druzer Yeah… but its the phrase: “Additional information was developed…..claimed to be the Zodiac Killer.” That sounds like the same person who admitted to faking the CJB letters also admitted to faking Zodiac communications. So, if he is being truthful, we should know definitively that some are false and if they are on the regular list of possible communications. When I say “we” I mean law enforcement. We have no idea.

 

(I note that none of this requires Zodiac DNA.The DNA used, as I read it, was from the 2016 apology letter and an individual identified thru genealogy.)

This post was modified 3 years ago 2 times by OHFORCRYINGOUTLOUD
 
Posted : August 24, 2021 4:46 pm
(@ohforcryingoutloud)
Posts: 10
Active Member
 

@greek1453 Yeah. Someone on a different thread suggested that he used the taxi for Stone because he could no longer drive. On thinking about it, is it not easier to suggest that he worked at Mare Island for the first killings and at the Presidio for the last? The military connection again… Would anyone be transferred from one to the other?

 
Posted : August 24, 2021 4:54 pm
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