Wonder if they’ve finally shared some info and tried working together as a team…

Lets cross our fingers that Vallejo PD have envelops from Zodiac, that they will test or touch DNA on the letters, because I can’t think of anything else with DNA that they have from Darlene’s case. Unless they were careful when they collected the 9 mil shell casings? It will be interesting to see if it will compare to the partial DNA from SFPD.I never read in any report that the phone booth used by Zodiac to place his call to Nancy Slover, was ever checked for prints, or if they kept the receiver? That would have DNA if he wasn’t wearing gloves.
I would like to see the new test done that can give eye, hair color and ethnicity. That would shorten the suspect list!

I sure hope they do work on it.

Sry for my ignorance, bu what happened to the supposed sample of Gaikowsky´s DNA, sent by "Mystery Quest"? Did they ever made a comparison with Z´s partial DNA, or is it still on hold?

Hi,

When will folks ever learn about these DNA rumors? My and Lyndon’s research with Alan Keel, as well as info passed to me by Ray Nixon from inside SFPD’s lab in 2002 (as well as other people working on different angles) says the Z letters were not licked by the sender. SFPD distanced itself from its own 2002 DNA in 2009 and everyone up to the Chief read my report on KQ in 2012 TEN YEARS after they said he was "eliminated." Obviously, they didn’t feel he had been eliminated or why read over a report in 2012? They even told me in 2012 that they did not have much confidence in the DNA they had from 2002. Touch DNA on evidence that has been "touched" and pawed by untold numbers of people over the years is a pipe dream. Letters treated with Ninhydrin don’t retain biological material as far as I know.

SFPD was very cryptic in 2013 but they told me they were trying for touch DNA. Assume it was on Stine’s shirt and determining where killer held it to cut it. Has anyone ever seen how that shirt was handled over the years? There is a video of Toschi removing it from an old brown paper bag that was so crumpled it looked like it had bene opened a thousand times. And it had been! To remove that shirt without gloves and show it to someone and then unceremoniously stuff it back in the bag without gfloves.

Won’t be holding my breath on this one.

Mike

The information that I received from the supervisor of the DNA lab in San Francisco Dr.C. Holt , was that at that time (2015) they had 4 of 9 markers.

Prime Time TV gave her 3 suspect samples, all three were eliminated. She was working at that time with PCR ( Polymerase Chain Reaction), which gave them a genetic profile. She said they can do it with as little as 50 human cells. A genetic profile will allow investigators to check for a match in a data base as well as with possible suspects.
What they had at SFPD is "enough to eliminate suspects", is what she told me in person in front of other people.

And that was before they received 3 other Zodiac letters, that were kept by one of the detectives, who has sense given them back to SFPD. I am keeping my hopes up that with all of the latest advances in DNA (even in the past two years), there is hope that Zodiac will be caught.

( I feel it in my bones!)

Any word on a new suspect(s) they’re working? Or just because of the advancement of DNA testing?
Would love to know more.

Hi Sandy,

I can only repeat that Alan Keel, who tested the actual Z letters for the presence of saliva, said that in his opinion as an experienced lab tech that the Z letters did not appear to have been licked. Ray Nixon told me in 2007 that Holt repeated the saliva testing in 2002 and came to the same conclusion. You can get 50 cells form someone who sneezed on a letter in 1971 but that does not make it Z’s DNA. In 2009, SFPD told Kevin Fagan that the DNA "may not be reliable" and in 2012 SFPD told me that they essentially had no confidence in the DNA, since it is not reproducible.

People can believe whatever they want about the ZNA in this case but that is what the research into that DNA has shown. I can only keep repeating this over and over.

When the movie came out in 2007, three letters magically appeared and the DOJ took custody of them and assured the public that they were testing them for DNA. A few months later when the clamor died down, IIRC, they quietly announced that they were unsuccessful. The beat just keeps going on…and yet people still get wide eyed whenever DNA is mentioned. It does not matter what new equipment you use on the letters if they were not licked, unless that machine can magically create Z’s actual saliva and DNA and place it on the letters for us. It’s not the technology, it’s the condition of the letters and over handled evidence that is important.

Mike

Hi,

When will folks ever learn about these DNA rumors? My and Lyndon’s research with Alan Keel, as well as info passed to me by Ray Nixon from inside SFPD’s lab in 2002 (as well as other people working on different angles) says the Z letters were not licked by the sender. SFPD distanced itself from its own 2002 DNA in 2009 and everyone up to the Chief read my report on KQ in 2012 TEN YEARS after they said he was "eliminated." Obviously, they didn’t feel he had been eliminated or why read over a report in 2012? They even told me in 2012 that they did not have much confidence in the DNA they had from 2002. Touch DNA on evidence that has been "touched" and pawed by untold numbers of people over the years is a pipe dream. Letters treated with Ninhydrin don’t retain biological material as far as I know.

SFPD was very cryptic in 2013 but they told me they were trying for touch DNA. Assume it was on Stine’s shirt and determining where killer held it to cut it. Has anyone ever seen how that shirt was handled over the years? There is a video of Toschi removing it from an old brown paper bag that was so crumpled it looked like it had bene opened a thousand times. And it had been! To remove that shirt without gloves and show it to someone and then unceremoniously stuff it back in the bag without gfloves.

Won’t be holding my breath on this one.

Mike

Mike, this is straight from a Zodiac case investigator to my ears. I believe this person. There are more details and maybe those details will be public knowledge soon, and then it will make sense

Contaminated with other people or not, if a Zodiac suspect, not involved in LE, DNA appears on any of the evidence…then you have something

Hi-

I understand what you are saying but the question is not the new or old equipment but the evidence they are using. What evidence has DNA on it and has not been handled by tons of people over the years? The more sensitive the technique they use, the more contamination becomes a problem. That was the issue with PCR. In 2002, PCR was the "latest" lab technique but if the sender did not lick the letters then PCR means zip. When they have DNA that can be reproduced on more than one piece of evidence then they may have something. They could not do that with the 2002 evidence but they could with the forged letters. That is why they have little confidence in the 2002 DNA.

We’ll see what happens.

Mike

Hi-

I understand what you are saying but the question is not the new or old equipment but the evidence they are using. What evidence has DNA on it and has not been handled by tons of people over the years? The more sensitive the technique they use, the more contamination becomes a problem. That was the issue with PCR. In 2002, PCR was the "latest" lab technique but if the sender did not lick the letters then PCR means zip. When they have DNA that can be reproduced on more than one piece of evidence then they may have something. They could not do that with the 2002 evidence but they could with the forged letters. That is why they have little confidence in the 2002 DNA.

We’ll see what happens.

Mike

I hear you, we’ll all just have to wait and see what they reveal and are willing to share. There are definitely going to be some cool details revealed

I am curious however, who is to say whether or not somebody did or did not lick a stamp that was on an envelope? "says the Z letters were not licked by the sender" That doesn’t make any sense. Are you saying they were sealed with water, or that there was no DNA under the envelopes at all meaning they could not have been licked? And what about the stamps themselves?

What about touch DNA trapped under the envelope flaps or under the stamps? Unless completely covered by gloves, Z would have handled those envelopes and those stamps possibly numerous times before sealing them for eternity. It seems that he might not have licked the stamps or envelopes and instead possibly used water or some clerical wet pad (post office worker..?) but if he handled the stamps/envelopes before sealing them, couldn’t touch DNA be preserved under part of the stamps or envelope flaps? Perhaps recent DNA techniques are better positioned to detect these cells?

LE do seem to have a fairly believable summary of which Z letters were authentic based on some form of consistent DNA being present on many confirmed Z letters but not on later questioned documents such as 1978 or 1986 letters, etc. Perhaps they are just working on strengthening those weak but consistent markers?

Alan Keel, who preceded Holt in SFPD’s lab, said that it would not be unfair to say that the letters were sealed with, and stamps applied, with tap water. But I’ve been saying thins since I learned it in 2007, and Lyndon also said this in his book. This is not a revelation. But we’ll see what happens.

As for touch DNA under the stamps and flaps, that is a technique that uses PCR. They already used PCR in 2002. I was told in 2012 that the DNA is not reproducible. Does that include "touch DNA?" I don’t know but whatever they had done up to 2012 had not yielded matching DNA from two Z letters. DNA has been recovered from two forgeries. this DNA matches across those two letters. One is the 1978 letter. The other is one of the 1974 letters but Keel was coy about which one it was.

Morf, maybe you can ask your source about which 1974 letter it was that is a forgery. See if they are willing to tell you. That would be a tremendous step forward for the case. And I wonder if your contact knows if there was a DMV letter that was sent by Z that has been rumored on Voigt’s board for years now.

Mike