Even if sealed with water rather than licked, Z would almost certainly still have picked up the stamps and opened the flaps of the envelopes first. Surely adding water would not eradicate that touch DNA? It would just serve to stick it down and trap it?

It would be the only part of the envelopes free from contamination after all these years. Older tests for saliva may well have gained poor results but could far more sensitive updated techniques detect DNA from Z’s fingers from handling stamps, etc? After all, I don’t know of anyone who picks up stamps around the edges as if they’re holding a vinyl record or CD – most people would just grab them front and back in any old way.

Hi-

Touch DNA is not some magical process. It is just a way of analyzing evidence with very, very few cells that uses PCR just like they used in 2002. I don’t know exactly how many rounds of PCR amplification are needed but as I said, as of 2012 there was no matching DNA from any two Z envelopes that I know of. I didn’t say water eradicated cells for touch DNA testing. What I meant is that there were so few cells and so little amylase from saliva that the lab concluded that the letters had not been licked. Again, this is not new. Been saying this since 2007. I do not THINK that the testing for amylase has changed over the years but I am trying to look into that. Might there be cells from Z handling the stamp or flap? Maybe but so far no matching DNA on multiple letters. That is the bottom line for now.

Mike

I believe what you say Mike R., but I also believe that the other members are being honest in what they were told.

In light of both those statements, why do you think SFPD is saying they are working on DNA?

If they know that there is no DNA that they can use, why would they waste their time and resources on it? If not, then they are just lying to people about their work on the DNA. Why would they do that?

I understand that they might not want to tell everyone that there was no DNA because it might upset people, but then why would they tell you that? No offense, but they obviously couldn’t trust you to keep it a secret if that was what they wanted. Maybe they lied to you. I don’t know, maybe Mr. X was a match and they wanted to keep that secret. Or they didn’t want to examine your evidence and they just said that so you would leave them alone.

Someone must be lying here.

Hi-

I am not saying that I doubt that they are trying to get DNA again using whatever new methodology is available.. I am just telling you what the state of the evidence is as I know it and expressing my own personal doubts as to its viability for yielding verifiable results to such sensitive techniques as touch DNA which is notorious for amplifying contaminants due to the many cycles of PCR it requires. But let them knock themselves out. The key is going to be DNA that is reproducible between different samples (unless it matches a known suspect or something in a database)

SFPD was presumably not lying to me when they told me in 2013 that they were trying to get DNA off of some item. They were cryptic about what they were doing, so I don’t know exactly what it was. But they said it was not related to anything written or on paper, as I recall. I assumed it might be Stine’s shirt. But that was handled by many people, so I was doubtful that such a sensitive technique as touch DNA would be successful due to all the background noise from contamination. There has never been any word that they were successful. That is not to say that they didn’t develop something because I am not naive enough to believe that they would not tell me if they did. But I knew from watching the Z videos from the 1980s and 1990s that that shirt was not always treated like the shroud of Turin, as Kelly Carroll did on the ABC show in 2002. The way he handled it was a joke if you had seen how it was handled before.

Mike

With even a partial DNA profile I bet they can determine Origin. Let’s say a suspect was from a specific region or country, and perhaps letters were handled/mailed from a specific region or country. Could help them build or rule out a case.

…The key is going to be DNA that is reproducible between different samples (unless it matches a known suspect or something in a database)

Maybe something like this is their intention.

With even a partial DNA profile I bet they can determine Origin. Let’s say a suspect was from a specific region or country, and perhaps letters were handled/mailed from a specific region or country. Could help them build or rule out a case.

At this point though, who knows who the DNA would belong to. It could send them down a (very) wrong trail. Guessing if it did point to someone, it might help, but…if it’s an EMT or investigator, or some non-Zodiac person along the way…could be more wasted time. Like Mike mentioned above…they need to find some matching DNA from various sources (at least two) before it means something, imho.

Thanks for keeping us updated on whats going on with the case Morf.

And thanks to Mike_r for clarifying a few details about the DNA up to this point.

Whatever, if anything, comes of this, I am very interested.

Seeing that the DNA that they have to this point is completely unreliable to be a match for Z, I hope there has not been many people ruled out as a suspect because of DNA.

Maybe they got one of those 23andme.com tests mailed to them http://www.23andme.com LOL

The California Dept of Justice has the majority of the evidence. I predict that SFPD and Vallejo and Napa and Benicia are all going to play a part in the solving of the case. I also predict that they’ve finally stopped being so precious about the envelopes and have ripped the flaps off a few (that stamp evidence used in 2002 was and remains a joke) The Gyke DNA was obtained by Bode Labs in Virginia (Bode has since been acquired by Cellmark/LabCorp) I also predict that the "solvers" are looking at Gyke’s familial DNA . You’ll remember that SFPD refused to compare the samples, but they were sent to SFPD and I believe CAL DOJ. I think that the SFPD didn’t want to be upped by the "History Channel" by solving the case (this was in Sept 2009 that documentary by The History Channel made it’s debut.

The best that we can really hope for is that Gyke cannot be excluded by the DNA results (which I guess means he’s the killer , but they don’t have the goods on him 110%)

There will be an effort to rule suspects out via DNA. If I get word who’s ruled out, I’ll post

Thanks Morf for having this site and keeping it up and active!

Some interesting DNA News – It evolves yearly and it’s amazing!

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/vanessa-mar … rs-slaying

Thanks for the response Mike. I agree with you. I’m also skeptical about the results. I just hope that they have a good reason and aren’t just blowing money.

Off Topic, but an interesting story-where DNA helped with some answers. Who is Paul Fronczak?
https://www.foundlingpaul.com/single-po … ion-in-DNA

Also, I did my Ancestry DNA & 123 & me. Totally fascinating findings. And a ton of highly probable relatives!
Someone in the Z’s family must of taken their DNA test for their family tree. If LE would run the DNA they have on hand, they could see highly probable matchs.

Zam*

So what I hear you say is Arthur Leigh Allen might not be ruled out by DNA after all…you’re telling me there’s a chance