Well he owned multiple guns of different calibers. I wouldn’t think that would be the norm in 60’s California. At least not for someone who was unfamiliar with guns.

I mean I don’t see him being a navy SEAL, but he surely must have had some practice, no?

Well he owned multiple guns of different calibers. I wouldn’t think that would be the norm in 60’s California. At least not for someone who was unfamiliar with guns.

I mean I don’t see him being a navy SEAL, but he surely must have had some practice, no?

I obviously can’t say for sure, but my opinion is probably not much. Stine and Faraday were point blank shots which doesn’t take an expert to accomplish. With Ferrin and Mageau, both victims were in a car (think fish in a barrel) and one of them survived. It took him multiple shots to kill BLJ, which was probably partially due to his weapon selection. There is a reason that the military issues .45s. Some guns are used to kill big things, others not so much. A .22 would fall into the latter category, which means he selected a sub-par weapon for the task at hand. Nothing he did screams expert to me. Closer to novice, especially using a .22.

Overall, we know he owned (or at least used) 3 guns. Two 9mms and a .22. He could have bought them new, or at a pawn shop, traded for them, inherited them, or even stole them. We don’t know what he did with the guns after each incident. Probably got rid of them, as that’s some damning evidence to keep around. If he did get rid of them after each attack, he would have to acquire another for the next attack. Even if he kept them all, three guns doesn’t seem like many to me…. but I live in WV.

the whole gun argument in regards to gake is pure BS in my mind..he could have never handled a firearm and within 5 seconds could have have a round chambered and pulled the trigger (guns are simple a 5 year old can figure it out)..these were close up shootings so zero practice required-just point and shoot.sorry just do not see a viable argument against gake with the gun angle ..the whole love of gake surrounds Narlow saying gake may have been at the ferrin painting party…many ran with that and have continued to do so..gake is interesting but i do not think he is Z..the albany connection is interesting to me but what comes from that is up for debate and argument if and when anything is ever found…gake and access to cars who cares its not like you cant borrow a car from a buddy but i think Z would never have done that..a mechanic would have access to cars and nobody would be non the wiser 40 plus years ago about extra miles especially if somebody argued about 100 extra miles on the car..Z could have easily said you had tranny problems so i drove it 100 miles with no issue..seems like a good mechanic to me and to the 70 year old granny it would seem as if Z cared…would gake have been picked in a lineup by Johns? (yes i think Johns was with Z)..I highly doubt it so another strike against…Blaine, goldcatcher whatever you want to call him also got ahold of carol stine years ago and pushed gake..that right there is enuff for me to question gake..but what do i know..i have no suspect and never will..I see Z-ness attributes in a lot of POI’s..i will never question who you have for a POI but you will need Facts and NOT THEORIES for your guy to stand scrutiny (hell i like ted K at about 4.389% like as being Z)

"I have no suspect and never will." That was what I said in 1998. I figured I was on the wrong coast to develop one and that the case was already 30 years old and picked over as hell. Strange things happen…

Mike

In Gaikowski’s case because he was associated with the radical left, I could see him using another person’s gun or getting a "hot" gun. He did have friends that were Weathermen and Black Panthers. Would someone in those groups even begin to connect him to being a killer? Also, during the time of Zodiac’s killings military bases and weapons depots were being ripped off for both guns and bomb making supplies. That is where the Panthers and the BLA got some of their guns. Actually the same scenario could hold true for any Zodiac suspect.

Gotta take issue with this one. As a long time Panther researcher (I have been working on a docu about them on my own for a couple years now) the Panthers were incredibly detail oriented when it came to ABIDING BY THE LAW. They carried their guns openly, had permits for them, and were very, very careful to drive the speed limit, get permits for their public gatherings etc. They WERE involved with the Weathermen, at least in terms of being compatriots or fellow travelers, but so were the Diggers, the Living Theatre, the Grateful Dead- pretty much any group that was against the Man in general back then. BUT they didn’t have the same methods. Alot of the misinformation about the Panthers comes from COINTELPRO. That isn’t a conspiracy theory, its demonstrable fact.
The Weathermen DID traffic in arms, blew up people indiscriminately, and were basically a very weak American version of the Baadher/Meinhof. Got no respect for them. But they did have some common ground with other militant groups. But the Panthers were far straighter than people paint them. I have alot of respect for those guys. They policed their own neighborhoods which were terribly dangerous, and the cops did NOTHING but mess with them, shoot them, break them up. The Panthers had a school lunch program, literacy programs, they were on top of their game. They were constructive. The Weathermen tho were just a bunch of bomb-happy overprivileged revoltniks. Who did way, way, way more damage that the BP ever did. But the BP got STOMPED, really stomped, mindlessly and needlessly, by the authorities.

And LOTS of people knew those types back in those days. LOTS. He lived in SF. SF was, and still is, ground zero for all KINDS of political hoohah. There are loads of militant/separatist/radical/vegan/genderrevolt types there then and now. I know a bunch of em. You couldn’t live in SF and Berkeley and not know those people. Doesn’t mean anything.

But a guy like Z would have shot the guns at ranges,etc.

With all due respect, I see no evidence that zodiac shot regularly at ranges. Nothing he did makes me think he was skilled with a gun.

Not even the close clusters of shots in Betty Lou Jensen as she was running away? I think that counts.

But a guy like Z would have shot the guns at ranges,etc.

With all due respect, I see no evidence that zodiac shot regularly at ranges. Nothing he did makes me think he was skilled with a gun.

Not even the close clusters of shots in Betty Lou Jensen as she was running away? I think that counts.

The first time I’d ever shot a pistol at all, I was 14 years old. We had chickens and a stray cat had got into their lot and was killing them. I grabbed my dads .380 and from about 25 feet I shot at the cat…missed him on the first shot, and he took off running. I fired 3 more shots all hitting him, the last one taking him out completely.

This was at 25 feet and him running away from me…FAST…and no bigger than any other cat…and me with no experience with a pistol at all. Yes, it was daytime and I know that makes a difference, but just saying, this was a MUCH smaller target, with much less mass to shoot at, and hit him 3 out of 4 shots while he was running away from me at a fast pace.

ETA: Plus as you know, this was done with a .22 semiautomatic pistol, meaning as fast as you can pull the trigger is how fast the gun shoots. You can unload a good 8-10 bullets in a 2-3 second time period…and the best thing is, it being a low caliber, there isn’t hardly any recoil. In other words it’s not one of those guns that make your hand or arm jump when you shoot, so it would not be difficult to pump that many bullets into a fairly large object in a fairly close pattern.

So no, the pictures I have seen of Betty’s back don’t indicate to me that the person was any sort of marksman.

But a guy like Z would have shot the guns at ranges,etc.

With all due respect, I see no evidence that zodiac shot regularly at ranges. Nothing he did makes me think he was skilled with a gun.

Not even the close clusters of shots in Betty Lou Jensen as she was running away? I think that counts.

Recent opinion indicates that the "28 feet" figure was wrong and that she was in fact 9 feet from the Rambler. Real close.

I found a newspaper database of Knickerbocker News articles and wanted to see if Gaikowski had any articles published on or around April 30th, 1967 — to see, in effect, if he could be ruled out for the "Bates had to die" letters. Here is his article timeline I came up with by searching the database…

March 28, 1967 — Police abuse article
April 7, 1967 — Brothers article
April 18, 1967 — Vietnam article
April 21, 1967 — Albany Primary article (Brothers)

May 9, 1967 — NAACP article
May 10, 1967 — Citizenship article
May 16, 1967 — Albany politics article
May 23, 1967 — Train crash article

It’s interesting to experience the wax and wane of suspicion when one investigates certain POI’s.
And whilst I’ve liked Gaik for ‘it’ from time to time, I’m ending up blank in terms of solid connection.
Each area of possibility seems to not only be just that, a possibility instead of a probability,
but also, in fairness, require a number of associated subsets of the population connected with those possibilities be looked at too.
Resulting in either a lot of ‘info-noise’ or a virtually undetectable needle in a haystack.

I don’t think it can be denied that he certainly seems to have led an interesting life,
but I’m kinda left wondering what are the specific reasons connecting him as a person to viable Zodiac suspect.
What makes Gaik supporters take this leap of interpretation?
And where might his involvement in cryptography be?

SD, did you catch the recent Coast to Coast AM show where a caller from San Francisco claimed that Richard confessed to being Zodiac — the phone call is at the 1 hour and 59-minute mark…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bMvI9Cg92A

I was reading around the Voigt site, just to familiarize myself with what they have. I think there are some good bits of evidence there. That said, it’s well less than a full picture. They do tend to make more out of the evidence than is warranted. Good Times using bits of slang that were popular at the time is looked at as being damning, like "rocks off."

It’s quite possible that Gaikowkski attended the paint party, if Narlow said so. But that wouldn’t be surprising, from what I understand of the evidence. If Gaikowski and Ferrin’s husband worked in the same building in Albany after moving there within a short timeframe of each other, it would be surprising if they knew each other. Add to that that Gaikowski had been the editor at the Martinez paper, and therefore it would have been his job to know people around town, plus he supposedly had a friend working at the Vallejo paper. Ferrin is always described as knowing a lot of people in Vallejo. Being acquaintances or friends wouldn’t be surprising.

The one thing that does make me wonder is the testimony of the babysitter. The sitter said (approximately)in the conversation about the alleged stalker that Darlene said she had heard he was back in the state. The sitter said he had a short first name (could be Dick) and a nearly as short last name (not Gaikowski, obviously, but "Gaik").

I look at the Gaikowski stuff as interesting tidbits that do not yet make a full story.

right but the ala crowd uses the same babysitter statement as proof. just saying.

I agree that the Z showed no evidence of expertise with guns. If you’re gonna use a .22 to murder somebody there are certain places to aim like the soft tissue just above the neck or through the armpit at a downward angle. Or so I’ve heard. Just for the record I’ve never killed anybody. Also he didn’t finish the job with Michael. I think it was Ted Kaczinski and some people in LE know it was Ted K so they’re pumping up Gaik as a distraction. Probably Larry Kane as well, and some of these other "POI"s. It would be just like the higher-ups in LE (ie the FBI and CIA) to try to pump up a leftist as a red herring for the Zodicac case. Whereas with Ted K they have the problem that his brain was probably warped in the MK Ultra program, which they didn’t want to shine a spotlight on.

The 22lr is a favorite of the cia….not saying z had any connection…what i would like to know if 22 shorts were used…very quiet even without a silencer or if you prefer a "can"…some will go as far to say from a 22inch rifle subsonic shorts are no noiser than a pellet rifle (subsonics exist that use only enhanced primer charge and no powder charge)..some report you can really tell the difference but i have not used shorts for target practice in years and i have never had a decibel meter or a chrono

My gut is Z did know guns…ruger bearcat 22lr revolver was widely available in the 60’s and was marketed towards hunters and campers..it could be used for 22 shorts safely as can 99% of any firearm marked as 22lr…some dedicated 22lr firearms exist and will only cycle with 22lr

A roscoe handgun (made by rohm in west germany..the produce top notch drill chucks) was imported prior to 1968 gun control act and it used 22shorts..it was priced around $15…hinkley shot reagan with a rohm…the roscoe was a very small easily concealable handgun aka derringer…just trivia…but a derringer will have crap accuracy from my experience