Source please

Well, I’ve already quoted the opinions of literary experts in the CJB desktop thread (from an old discussion on Voigt’s forum), but if you insist I could easily get any professor in English literature alive to attest to the fact that the desktop poem is, to put it brutally simple, cliche in terms of its subject matter.

It’s a poem about suicide – to put it short and sweet. It certainly is not a poem about murder.

That’s what any literary expert would tell you. And if you want sources, I can provide you with hundreds.

It would hardly matter, though. If handwriting analysis is a soft science, literary analysis is…well, there you are.

I can tell you this, however: I would not be very surprised if it should turn out that your run-of-the-mill custodian (point one) and your run-of-the-mill cop (point two) considered that poem to be a whole lot more sinister and "sick" than it actually is.

Source please

Well, I’ve already quoted the opinions of literary experts in the CJB desktop thread (from an old discussion on Voigt’s forum), but if you insist I could easily get any professor in English literature alive to attest to the fact that the desktop poem is, to put it brutally simple, cliche in terms of its subject matter.

It’s a poem about suicide – to put it short and sweet. It certainly is not a poem about murder.

That’s what any literary expert would tell you. And if you want sources, I can provide you with hundreds.

Well, I don’t need hundreds of sources(I wasn’t aware that many people have examined it from a writing perspective). Again, it comes down to interpretation or opinion. I personally don’t think it reads as suicide related at all.

You’re entitled to your opinion, as we all are. Especially when it comes to an opinion about a poem – which can obviously be interpreted in any number of ways.

If you interpret that poem as being NOT about suicide, then I suppose you have your well thought-out reasons for thinking so. I would be interested in hearing what those reasons are, but this is not the thread for it.

Source please

Well, I’ve already quoted the opinions of literary experts in the CJB desktop thread (from an old discussion on Voigt’s forum), but if you insist I could easily get any professor in English literature alive to attest to the fact that the desktop poem is, to put it brutally simple, cliche in terms of its subject matter.

It’s a poem about suicide – to put it short and sweet. It certainly is not a poem about murder.

That’s what any literary expert would tell you. And if you want sources, I can provide you with hundreds.

It would hardly matter, though. If handwriting analysis is a soft science, literary analysis is…well, there you are.

I can tell you this, however: I would not be very surprised if it should turn out that your run-of-the-mill custodian (point one) and your run-of-the-mill cop (point two) considered that poem to be a whole lot more sinister and "sick" than it actually is.

I don’t believe that anyone could tell you exactly what the poem was about except for the person that wrote it. When it comes to something as unique as poety you really need to know the person and their own way of thinking. I personally feel the poem is a fantasy the writer had, maybe it was murder or maybe it was suicide but regardless without talking to and knowing the person no one can tell you exactly what that person was writing about.

It reminds of an interview with Eddie Vedder and he was talking about what the song Alive was really about in comparison to how people interrupted it. It actually had the opposite meaning of what people thought and even Eddie Vedder admitted that he likes the translation better than how he actually meant it.

I don’t believe that anyone could tell you exactly what the poem was about except for the person that wrote it. When it comes to something as unique as poety you really need to know the person and their own way of thinking. I personally feel the poem is a fantasy the writer had, maybe it was murder or maybe it was suicide but regardless without talking to and knowing the person no one can tell you exactly what that person was writing about.

It reminds of an interview with Eddie Vedder and he was talking about what the song Alive was really about in comparison to how people interrupted it. It actually had the opposite meaning of what people thought and even Eddie Vedder admitted that he likes the translation better than how he actually meant it.

That is what I thought. I actually can visualize, a disturbed younger man, with twisted thoughts about a girl he saw in a red dress, and putting hos thoughts to paper(or to wood in this instance )

It’s somebody with some sort of interest or knowledge in poetry, they write it in an ironic, dark way.

You’re entitled to your opinion, as we all are. Especially when it comes to an opinion about a poem – which can obviously be interpreted in any number of ways.

If you interpret that poem as being NOT about suicide, then I suppose you have your well thought-out reasons for thinking so. I would be interested in hearing what those reasons are, but this is not the thread for it.

Why can’t the poem be about suicide, and still written by Ross? Didn’t Allen say Ross hated himself?

PRO:

The poem was signed with r.h. Ross = r. His mother and father’s first names were both "h."

You’re entitled to your opinion, as we all are. Especially when it comes to an opinion about a poem – which can obviously be interpreted in any number of ways.

If you interpret that poem as being NOT about suicide, then I suppose you have your well thought-out reasons for thinking so. I would be interested in hearing what those reasons are, but this is not the thread for it.

Why can’t the poem be about suicide, and still written by Ross? Didn’t Allen say Ross hated himself?

PRO:

The poem was signed with r.h. Ross = r. His mother and father’s first names were both "h."

If only the initials were RS

You’re entitled to your opinion, as we all are. Especially when it comes to an opinion about a poem – which can obviously be interpreted in any number of ways.

If you interpret that poem as being NOT about suicide, then I suppose you have your well thought-out reasons for thinking so. I would be interested in hearing what those reasons are, but this is not the thread for it.

Why can’t the poem be about suicide, and still written by Ross? Didn’t Allen say Ross hated himself?

PRO:

The poem was signed with r.h. Ross = r. His mother and father’s first names were both "h."

Maybe it was a dedication to his mom? Ross and Harriet. His friend did state that he hated his dad and maybe it was dedicated to her. I wonder if she committed suicide or if it had anything to do with her mind set or thoughts before she died. It’s possible she also had some mental health issue. Even if she did not kill herself maybe she tried or spoke about it. Or maybe he wasn’t the author and we are just reaching. It’s all possible but I think finding out how his mom died would be very benefitional. Maybe she has cancer and that’s how Ross interpreted how he thought she felt, as if she was bleeding out.

If I was presented by the desk top poem and had no knowledge of the Zodiac case whatsoever and someone asked me what that poem was about and what kind of person wrote it I would say:

It was written by a girl torn between the desire to die and to live.
The poem is about herself.
This girl once tried to commit suicide by cutting herself, but it was a half hearted attempt and she was found and saved.
She still have thoughts of suicide and plan to do it again at least in her thoughts.

Sick of living/unwilling to die
cut.
clean.
if red /
clean.
blood spurting,
dripping,
spilling;
all over her new
dress
oh well
it was red
anyway.
life draining into an
uncertain death.
she won’t (smudge)
die.
this time
someone ll find her.
just wait till
next time.
rh

TF, I agree 100%. Quite frankly, I don’t know how this could be construed as a poem about murder.

I disagree 100%!

Sick of living/unwilling to die *Wants to kill himself

cut.
clean.
if red /
clean. *Slash up a victim and clean up the evidence

blood spurting,
dripping,
spilling;
all over her new
dress *HER, the victim is female

oh well
it was red
anyway.

life draining into an
uncertain death.

she won’t (smudge)
die.
this time
someone ll find her. Again, the female victim.

just wait till
next time. *if this is about suicide there is no next time! But murder…
rh

Also, english IS my first language.

BTW this thread is about the pros/cons not a analysis of the desktop!

Perhaps a Guy like Z who was possibly a latent homosexual, or a guy like Ross(who according to Allan may have been A-Sexual),may come across as feminine in nature as far as their writing. Regardless of the tone, or anybody’s interpretation, the state’s top writing expert said Z wrote it, and it was "unquestionably" the work of Zodiac. There’s only two possibilities. One, Sherwood was Correct and Z wrote it. Or two, he was wrong and Z did not write it, and then all Riverside bets are off.

But again, and I know I will not convert anybody here (you know who you are ) let’s take the Bates case writings as a whole:

*Desktop linked to Zodiac by State writing expert, and backed up by Traveller1st. Now Trav is certainly not a documents examiner, but his profession & ability allows him to demonstrate and highlight some very striking similarities between confirmed Z letters, and the desktop.

*The Bates case, like the Z case, has a Guy demanding the letters get published. He also writes that he "did make that call", another similarity to Z, calling police after the crime.

*Confession letter similarity also shows link to Z in choice of words, same misspelling of TWICH/TWITCH, and use of the word SHALL that Z was so fond of. And to you skeptics that say the word ‘SHALL’ is pretty common, I dare you to tell me you have used that word in a sentence verbally or on paper in the last 10 years(not counting Zodiac related). Simply put, it ain’t a common word! Unless you are a writer using it in a Book, or a lawyer filling out some legal mumbo jumbo, that word is not used very much in the USA today, nor was it back in 1969. Here’s a nice long thread about the word SHALL- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shall_and_will

*Confession letter mailed 30 days after attack, and Bates had to die letters mailed 6 months after attack, Z mailed letter to Belli one year after LHR, in both Bates & Z cases, we see letters mailed on the anniversaries of attacks.

*Bates letters had little symbols on them that, whether you believe they are Z’s are not, resemble Z’s/

*Also, while not solid proof, let’s consider ‘ZODE’ for a second. A Guy in 1963 to 1965, in nearby San Bernardino who admits to calling himself, ZODIAC,(6 years before Z used it) and could be heard saying "this is the Zodiac speaking", is it not the least bit possible that Zodiac stole that persona and that exact saying from Zode after encountering Zode, or knowing Zode by his nickname, or hearing about Zode thru a mutual Friend. Let’s face it, if ZODE really called himself Zodiac, and used the phrase "this is the zodiac speaking" in 1964, then we would almost have to assume that Zodiac stole that from Zode in some way, wouldn’t we?

Again, it’s more than just the desktop, it’s all of the writings, and the habits of the writer, that in my opinion, give it away that Z did the writing.

I disagree 100%!

Sick of living/unwilling to die *Wants to kill himself

cut.
clean.
if red /
clean. *Slash up a victim and clean up the evidence

blood spurting,
dripping,
spilling;
all over her new
dress *HER, the victim is female

oh well
it was red
anyway.

life draining into an
uncertain death.

she won’t (smudge)
die.
this time
someone ll find her. Again, the female victim.

just wait till
next time. *if this is about suicide there is no next time! But murder…
rh

Also, english IS my first language.

BTW this thread is about the pros/cons not a analysis of the desktop!

The poem sounds to me like, he is fantasizing about killing a Girl, maybe his fantasies have not become reality. Maybe ‘next time’ he will go thru with it, and she won’t be so lucky.

The line, CUT. CLEAN. almost sounds as if he’s gutting a deer, at least from a Hunter’s view.

Personally, I do not think the writing looks like a female wrote it, it is not thin, or overly feminine in my opinion.

Perhaps somebody would like to start a debate thread in the desktop section since this is going a bit off topic

There’s only two possibilities. One, Sherwood was Correct and Z wrote it. Or two, he was wrong and Z did not write it, and then all Riverside bets are off.

The link to Zodiac was established by much more than this poem. The poem, IMO, is incidental. While we can argue that "it places Z in the RCC library," it really doesn’t matter in the case of Ross. We already know he worked there.

There’s only two possibilities. One, Sherwood was Correct and Z wrote it. Or two, he was wrong and Z did not write it, and then all Riverside bets are off.

The link to Zodiac was established by much more than this poem. The poem, IMO, is incidental. While we can argue that "it places Z in the RCC library," it really doesn’t matter in the case of Ross. We already know he worked there.

True, but if Sherwood was wrong, then we are likely looking in Riverside for no reason, and any suspects from there including Ross, become less interesting. Personally, I agree with Sherwood, so I am happy to be poking around Riverside