OK

I am simply trying to look at the other side of it and show that things aren’t always so cut & dry.

On a general note, I suppose that is precisely what a board like this should offer – criticism and counterpoints. If a POI or a theory has merits, he or it will withstand such criticism.

I don’t have a dog in this race, I’m just interested in finding out what happened – and if it seems that I’m overly critical/skeptical sometimes, it usually (I hope at least) happens when there is something worthwhile to criticize. If Ross, for instance, had been a complete waste of time, I wouldn’t have bothered to comment much.

So, yes – that is all.

I don’t mean to dismiss what "Allen" has to say, but we are talking about 50 year old memories from a kid he knew in high school. I’m not saying that any of us could not remember someone was smart, and if they were smart I would like to think they could carry out a plan of some sort, but I kind of find it a little odd…that and his remembering a poem Ross wrote; even if only a couple of lines. I think it is a valid concern. I am not saying he’s lying, I just find it a bit curious.

Well, Tahoe, I can tell you after talking to Allan 3 times for almost 3 hours, Allan is very sharp! His memories of Ross are very clear, and they flowed as we talked, so I think it’s a bit unfair for you t criticize his recollections and info.

My apologies if I came off as Allan not having all his whits about him. We all know many people remember things from their past better than some things that just happened last week! My father is 73 and he’ll all there.

My point was that, while he might remember Ross, he is still remembering a guy he went to high school with. They did not appear to be friends after that. He remembers his high school friend…and that is interesting and it’s appreciated you went to such lengths. No insults to you or Allan intended.

It reminds me of Facebook and some of the friends I have on there from high school who I have not seen or talked to since. I have no idea about these people now, or who they have become in life…it’s kind of scary actually and I will now go delete some of them.

Allan said flat out, he never knew Ross to be violent, or threatening. I’m reporting the stuff that may match Z and the stuff that may not. You are right, he knew Ross up until about 1962, 3 years after graduating, and he knew Ross had gone to Riverside. Now People can certainly change, and maybe with Ross, his mental illness would cause changes.

Here’s where we stand with Ross-

We all know, some people like him as a Suspect in the Z and/or Bates case, and some people do not. Some people think the desktop poem was written by Zodiac, and some don’t. We know, we are going to agree to disagree on aspects of this case, and this Forum allows healthy debates. But I am sure everybody would agree(or at least I hope they would)that Ross should be fully checked out and eliminated.
He’s the only Suspect in this case to be linked to that RCC Library and look like the sketch.If anybody has another one, I will gladly help you research them. On the chance that Sherwood was right, I think it is foolish to write off ANY Suspects linked to that RCC Library, which includes Ross or anybody else! Trust me, I would love to find that solid clue that confirms Ross was Z or clears him once and for all. Unfortunately, we don’t have any clue that does either.

Cons: Everything else. Ross has no connection to anything having to do with the word Zodiac. Never shown to own or have access to any of Z’s cars, nor guns, nor wing walker shoes, codes, military/navy, knot tying, Mikado, Belli, bombs, Paul Avery, etc.

Do any suspects have Z’s cars or guns? Wouldn’t that mean the case was solved if we had to start with that?

It’s easy to find a POI with ties to SF, Vallejo and the Bay Area. But with all of these POIs, the case starts to fall apart when there is an attempt to link them to Riverside, let alone the RCC. The best they could link ALA to was races in a town close by.

The good thing about Ross, is that we are going in the opposite direction. Establish the Riverside/RCC connection then work towards the Bay Area links.

Yes, I have been reading the latest posts. A lot of arguing going on. I agree with morf that Ross is a good POI for so many reasons and the bottom line is that we need more information about him.

The case is not solved yet and I am looking forward to more developments. The information in the 100+ pages of posts definitely needs to be summarized into some sort of synopsis, so that people can look at that first and decide if they are interested in Ross. I am not as involved as some of the people here, and there are so many names and facts and discussions now that things are starting to get all messed up in my head.

On another note, I was wondering about Ross’s family tree and how that could help to find out if he has any connection with Vallejo. I personally believe that Zodiac was familiar with the area. I wonder if Ross may have had relatives in that area. Someone with whom he may have visited or even lived with as a child or teenager. Someone who doesn’t necessarily have the last name Sullivan but who is related by blood or marriage. Plus maybe Ross has another relative who we don’t know about besides Jon Sullivan who may want to help. Do any of the Zodiac investigators use family tree websites?

Smokie

Yeah smokie, 100+ pages is an awful lot to digest. I believe the family history has been explored to a large extent. The Foreigner has provided lots of that kind of info over the years, so I assume she has access to those sites (true TF?). A summary for POIs and suspects would be nice. Tom has a pretty decent one of the main suspects on zodiackiller.com, but there’s nothing to my knowledge of the many POIs.

Might be a good idea (morf) to sum up Ross (death certificate, library letter, photo, etc.) and what has been found and lock it in a thread–for reference purposes only.

Yeah smokie, 100+ pages is an awful lot to digest. I believe the family history has been explored to a large extent. The Foreigner has provided lots of that kind of info over the years, so I assume she has access to those sites (true TF?). A summary for POIs and suspects would be nice. Tom has a pretty decent one of the main suspects on zodiackiller.com, but there’s nothing to my knowledge of the many POIs.

Yes up2s, and I have done what I can trying to find a connection to Ross Sullivan in the Vallejo/Bay area, but have not been able to find any.

Might be a good idea (morf) to sum up Ross (death certificate, library letter, photo, etc.) and what has been found and lock it in a thread–for reference purposes only.

I’ll see what I can do

Yeah smokie, 100+ pages is an awful lot to digest. I believe the family history has been explored to a large extent. The Foreigner has provided lots of that kind of info over the years, so I assume she has access to those sites (true TF?). A summary for POIs and suspects would be nice. Tom has a pretty decent one of the main suspects on zodiackiller.com, but there’s nothing to my knowledge of the many POIs.

Yes up2s, and I have done what I can trying to find a connection to Ross Sullivan in the Vallejo/Bay area, but have not been able to find any.

In short, Ross didn’t have much in the way of Relatives. His Mom died in 1959 in Southern CA. His Dad who he hated, moved back East by himself. His Brother Jon was away in school in another state. His Brother Tim got married in San Fran in 1966. At some point, we don’t know when, Tim moved to Canada. I think this is in the late 60’s or early 70’s. We don’t know all the details or reasons why, but Tim thought his Brother Ross was Zodiac. After Tim moved to Canada, this left Ross alone in CA when he had never been alone before. We don’t know where Ross was living during this time or what he was up to. In 1973 I think it was, Ross had some kind of mental conservatorship produced. It essentially was something in place stating he was mentally ill-too ill to take care of himself. At some point, 1973 or after, Jon moved back to the SF Bay area in Berkeley. He is the one that found Ross dead in his room. Everything in between is a mystery.

PRO’s: (and I admit this is a stretch)

The desktop RH could be RS in the Norse alphabet:

The Z at the end of the Bates had to die letters could be an R in the Theban alphbet:

PRO’s: (and I admit this is a stretch)

The desktop RH could be RS in the Norse alphabet:

The Z at the end of the Bates had to die letters could be an R in the Theban alphbet:

Wow that is actually a cool find. You say it’s a stretch, and maybe it is, but then again, Zodiac did mention the word NORSE in a letter

Morf, my response to your comments was my interpretation of the points I thought you were making and trying to respond to them. Sorry if you feel that I’m misinterpreting what you are saying. It’s not like I’m going around telling people that you said this and that and misqouting you. I’m not trying to tell people what you think, I’m telling you what I think about what you said.

I haven’t seen any of Ross writing other than his SS app. If more has turned up I would like to see that. I think that is inconclusive one way or the other, so it shouldn’t be counted as a pro.

You said that Ross looked identical to the Zodiac sketch. Was he a two dimensional grey scale floating head? That’s a joke. When I said he sort of looks like Zodiac, well, that’s what we’ve been discussing. The descriptions are vague, because obviously victims are not going to be able to give exact details. Ross was 6’2" right? You can maybe align Bryan’s description with an over six foot Z, but he was also described as shorter than that, so not an exact match to Ross. We have a description of Ross at 300 lbs, his weight later in life is not known and would be an assumption, is that correct? At 300, that is heavier than any of the Zodiac weight approximations.

I don’t dispute that his RCC connection is the strongest link, that’s why I listed it as a pro. But he also was said to have not been there the night of the murder, so that could loss some or gain some depending on how you interpret that.

Ross brother’s girlfriend was friends with Cheri. That doesn’t mean that they knew each other. How do we know that they even met? They went to the same college and shared a peer group, we can assume that they met, but that counts less strongly to me, that’s why I called it a gray area.

Paul: You asked if any suspect matched Zodiac’s guns or cars. Obviously no one was matched to the actual guns and cars used by Zodiac. I’m saying that as far as we know Ross was not known to own the type of firearms used by Zodiac, or the same types of cars. To me that is a con. Off hand I don’t remember whether that fits other suspects, but I seem to recall that it does.

I’m not trying to dismiss Ross as a suspect, I’m listing things that are not conclusive or go against him. This thread is supposed to be about pros and cons.

Re: runes

A couple of points:

If the "h" in the signature is in fact the "sowilo" (an "s"), then it is executed much more smoothly, less jaggedly than what is common.

We also have to presuppose (if we’re having Ross in mind, that is) that the author signed with a Latin lowercase "r" and the "sowilo", rather than opting for TWO runic letters.

If we take BOTH letters in the signature as runes, we get "ls" rather than "rs", because what appears to be a lowercase "r" could (only) be interpreted as the "laguz":

Well, doesn’t mean much – but I thought I’d mention it nonetheless.