, Subject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card Fri Jun 18, 2010 11:47 pm

They look like some type of older government keys, and I think I see a faint "US" on them…

My observations:

1. It is reminiscent of the Z’s "Halloween card, but without any writing, extra pictures, symbols, etc.

2. The envelope writing is very similar to what we have seen of Z’s, except it looks traced to me, somehow…

3. There is only one stamp…

4. There is no "RUSH, or Attn Editor", or any little side "postscript" we have come to expect from Z…Instead he puts "editor" as the first address line… I do not see that any code or cipher was included either.

5. Interesting it is from Eureka, as in "Eureka I have found/got it!"…

6. Maybe Z is retired there, if in fact it is from him (which I do NOT think it is…). OTOH, Eureka is only about 10 hours from Seattle WA, and a pretty straight shot, as well…

7. There are 7 very decent libraries, some very specialized in the Eureka area which would make it a possible destination for someone nott too far from there who is interested in that sort of thing.

8. The thing on the keychain almost looks like a mini Dremel tool?…or a mini hex set, or sharpener, or level, or mech. pencil, or mini mag lite, what the hell is it…it’s some type of tool I think…

I do not think it is real, unless the partial DNA obtained from other Z stamps looks like the DNA from this one…

, Subject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card Fri Jun 18, 2010 11:49 pm

…was this held back on purpose by LE/SFC, or was it actually just forgotten about and found somehow??

morf13, Subject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card Sat Jun 19, 2010 12:08 am

…was this held back on purpose by LE/SFC, or was it actually just forgotten about and found somehow??

Go to youtube and search for "zodiac roundtable". You will get a large selection of COAST TO COAST radio shows for the Zodiac discussion with Tom V, En Neil, and Mike Bitterfield. One of these (forget which one) has a great explanation of the origins of the Eureka card. Apparently, a reporter found it in storgae at his paper when he was looking for Zodiac stuff to write a story.

Actually, I would recommend anyone here, listen to the entire series of videos on Zodiac. Although I cant personally stand 2 of those 3 guys, they collectively all know their Z stuff, I dont think that can be disputed. As a matter of fact, I will post a link to the vids in another thread. Its over 3 hours long to listen to them all, but there is some good stuff.

, Subject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card Sat Jun 19, 2010 1:18 am

Thank you!!

linda, Subject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card Sat Jun 19, 2010 6:31 am

Zab… This card presents a very interesting parallel and/or connection to Ted Kaczynski. Take a look at the info provided by Doug Oswell (author Unabomber and the Zodiac). http://unazod.com/eureka.html

To me the address from the envelope and the writing from Ted’s card to Ms. Preston is quite remarkable… Not to mention the fact that the cards were sent within days of each other and the stamps are identical. And there is evidence to believe that Ted was familiar with and may have actually been in the area at some point in time during that year.

I think that the Zodiac’s humor (sarcasm, teasing, cryptic) is analogous to that of Ted. I have always pictured the Zodiac at Christmastime 1990 in the card shop and he comes across the Secret Pal card. He has a flashback to his earlier years and entertains a hearty, self-soothing chuckle, thinking…”Ah, this is perfect – a card similar to the one I sent before… this is worth $1.15 to stir up a little remembrance! Don’t need to sign anything, but will just put in a little “clue” to confuse them! Will send to the Chronicle… Wonder if they’re smart enough to figure out who it’s from!”

The card clearly seems to represent a Zodiac connection since it was a Secret Pal card that was sent by the Z at Halloween in 69; HOWEVER, if Ted K. was the writer of the note (and clearly there is a strong parallel with the lettering, year and type stamp he used to send to Ms. Preston), he could have been sending it to the Chronicle NOT as the Zodiac, but as the Unabomber… because, the Unabomber had also sent correspondences to the Chronicle.

Thoughts?

, Subject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card Sat Jun 19, 2010 8:53 am

I have said that of all the known suspect, Ted K.’s handwriting is the most similar….

However, I am not sure about the rest….I follow your logic, but I am not sure…

linda, Subject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card Sat Jun 19, 2010 3:30 pm

I have said that of all the known suspect, Ted K.’s handwriting is the most similar….

However, I am not sure about the rest….I follow your logic, but I am not sure…

It’s really more than just the writing, Zab, that has convinced me that there is a most reasonable chance that he could very well be the Z… It’s the content of the writings, punctuation, phraseology, paragraphing, numbering, etc. The powerful need to communicate and control through his writings… Additionally, his knowledge and use of codes, communicating with the media, police and victims; threatening to use bombs and then retracting his statement; similarities to suspect description, possible vehicle used… His mathematical background with his specialty being the Unit Circle, perfectly matching the Z’s cross-haired circle signature; the numerous mathematical references within Z’s correspondences… Too, it is well known that "proof" is a mathematician’s special period at the end of their sentence… And in his communications, Zodiac wanted to make sure that he was taken seriously and provided "proof" as to his author….

Other similarities includes his familiarity with hunting, music, love of irony and/or use of sarcasm; his apparent anger towards women or young females and/or couples. The one thing that’s missing is "proving" he was there… But, it has also "never" been proven that he was at any other very specific location during the Z crimes (or even mailings)…

To me, this is always a fascinating study on a very high profile suspect…

AK Wilks, Subject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card Sat Jun 19, 2010 4:35 pm

You can see that Ted and the Zodiac had the same taste in stamps. And similar handwriting. And both had a desire to be in Northern California in 1990.

AK Wilks, Subject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card Sat Jun 19, 2010 4:38 pm

The strange item with the keys was identified by Doug Oswell as a small pen magnet, often used in gold mining. (I presume to seperate Iron (Fe) from Gold (Au).

, Subject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card Sat Jun 19, 2010 6:14 pm

Thank you! I could not figure out what that was, and it was driving me nutz!

Interesting that it is a mining/metallurgy tool…

rand, Subject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card Tue Jun 22, 2010 9:00 pm

FROM GOOD TIMES: (I think these are very similar, but just coincidence)

, Subject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card Tue Jun 22, 2010 9:07 pm

The "s"’s are distinctly different as is the number "3", and the small "t", etc. It’s similar, but not a match.

, Subject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card Wed Jun 23, 2010 2:45 am

I also think that this is Ted, and that it is actually a Unabomber communication. AK has anyone ever approached Ted about the card, either in an official or unofficial capacity. If they traced these keys to anybody associated with Ted and asked them about the Zodiac I’m sure they would probably have made light of it seeing as it probably pertains to the Unabomber.

It has long been thought that Ted may have had other associates either financial or helping to make the bombs, I think this communication needs looking into in terms of Unabomber activity. And anyone associated with these keys needs looked at again.

linda, Subject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card Wed Jun 23, 2010 5:59 am

The "s"’s are distinctly different as is the number "3", and the small "t", etc. It’s similar, but not a match.

Too, the "a" is clearly different. Never have seen Zodiac or TK correspondences with the "a" formed like this.

morf13, Subject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card Wed Jun 23, 2010 7:32 am

As is the case with many suspect writings, there are similarities and differences.

rand, Subject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card Wed Jun 23, 2010 10:25 am

I think thsi card is a reference to Stine. I think Z stole his keys and glasses.

tahoe27, Subject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card Wed Jun 23, 2010 11:59 am

I doubt this card was from Zodiac.

Those pen magnets were also used by auto shops to detect Bondo.

Those are 100% confirmed PO Box Keys–in case anyone didn’t know.

AK Wilks, Subject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card Wed Jun 23, 2010 1:30 pm

PO Box keys to a PO Box in what city?

linda, Subject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card Wed Jun 23, 2010 5:11 pm

I don’t know if it’s ever been determined as to what City. The numbers are able to be seen when magnified and you would think since they are P.O. box keys that there would be some specific reference within the number as to the location. It would be great to find out.

tahoe27, Subject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card Wed Jun 23, 2010 6:50 pm

I had assumed at one point it was the Eureka area and that is what led to "Sam"—who I know nothing about, but know was a hot topic for a bit at zk.com.

I have almost identical keys and I specifically asked my mail clerk what info someone might get from those numbers on the keys. He told me they could trace it to the post office, and with a little work identify what box they went to, but nobody in the general public could find out from those numbers.

morf13, Subject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card Wed Jun 23, 2010 7:06 pm

I had assumed at one point it was the Eureka area and that is what led to "Sam"—who I know nothing about, but know was a hot topic for a bit at zk.com.

I have almost identical keys and I specifically asked my mail clerk what info someone might get from those numbers on the keys. He told me they could trace it to the post office, and with a little work identify what box they went to, but nobody in the general public could find out from those numbers.

I asked my post office guy, and he gave me a little different explanation. He said that the numbers on the key have an internal indicator for that post office specifically, and not to the postal service as a whole.

In other words..Joe has PO BX 123. On the back of Joe’s key is the number 23758A.

Joe loses his key in the parking lot outside the post office, and it is found and turned in. The postoffice people look up that number and figure out it belongs to Joe at PO BX 123.

BUT….that number 23758A on the back of the key, isnt fed into some central post office system so that every post office across the country can look it up. It is really only relevant to each post office.

So knowing the numbers on the back of the key is only helpful if you know where the PO BX is located that it opens….or at least thats the way it was explained to me.

sandy betts, Subject: 1990 Christmas Card Sat Jun 26, 2010 2:57 pm

The keys were checked, and found to belong to Sam at a po box in Eureka.
Myself and Dahlia were the ones who helped Tom V. with his Sam investigation.
Sam was a pretty interesting person, and kept us going for a while.
I saw the Card, and believe that it was sent from the Zodiac, but Sam was not the Zodiac.
That thing that was attached to the keys that Mike B said had to be a magnet, turns out that it could have been a pen light. A pen light would make a lot more sense if it was from the Z, not a magnet. I have had these small pen lights before, and I used them to see key holes at night. Z claimed to have used one on his gun at Lake Herman rd.

The picture of keys that were sent with the Christmas card, I think was another game the z likes to play. He could have found them on the ground somewhere ? They were traced to Sam is how he became a suspect.
There are certain things that I have noticed on other cards sent from the Z, that I found on this Eureka card, is why I believe it is a true Z card.

Look back at all the Z like things that happened in 1990 ? Something made him come out from under his rock that yr. It was also the same yr that my suspect forced me to quit my job of many yrs. He was getting more brazen, pointing guns at me, then trying to force me off of roads late at night. It would have been too easy for him to get me had I stayed at my job, and drive 45 miles home each night.
I went into hiding for a few months, but he found me anyway.

My suspect loves his game of cat and mouse, me being the mouse of course lol.

AK Wilks, Subject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card Sat Jun 26, 2010 3:55 pm

How can you be sure they were his keys?

Can you tell us anything more about Sam? What he looked like? What ge did for a living? Was he involved in political causes?

, Subject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card Sun Jun 27, 2010 3:32 am

If this ‘Sam’ can with 100% certainty be identified as the person those keys belong to (and that would involve the FBI) then he needs to be quizzed about Ted and the Unabomber crimes IMO. AK have any LE or the FBI been shown the Eureka card along with the Preston/stamp/Eureka mailing?

AK Wilks, Subject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card Sun Jun 27, 2010 11:37 am

I sent the 1990 card to my contacts in LE, but beyond that, I don’t know if the FBI or SFPD is interested in this card, as nothing clearly identifies it as Zodiac, just hints and clues. If they would try to get DNA off of it, I don’t know.

Can anyone say how they deterrmined the keys belonged to "Sam". And can anyone say anything more about him?

linda, Subject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card Sun Jun 27, 2010 12:23 pm

As it would relate to the stamp on the Eureka card and any possible connection it could have to the stamp on the envelope containing the letter that Ted K had sent to Irene Preston (within several days of each other), wouldn’t it be interesting to see if the stamps were possibly from the same batch…. I wonder if Ms. Preston could be contacted to see if she would be willing to have the stamp compared to the stamp on the Eureka card…

http://unazod.com/eureka.html

rand, Subject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card Sun Jun 27, 2010 12:24 pm

IMO, the keys look like they are configured in the image of Groucho Marx — like the snowman on the cover. The holes are the eyes, the round parts around the holes are the glasses, the pen light is the cigar, the teeth of the keys are the hair.

, Subject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card Sun Jun 27, 2010 2:11 pm

….interesting you say that Rand, because, the other day, I posted this on a different thread…

http://gasdisc.oakapplepress.com/mikmarx.htm

AK Wilks, Subject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card Sun Jun 27, 2010 2:29 pm

, Subject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card Sun Jun 27, 2010 2:33 pm

OMG, AK!!

You can here Marx doing KoKo’s "Little List" starting at 8:20 here…

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid … 295053456#

sandy betts, Subject: keys Mon Jun 28, 2010 1:46 pm

How can you be sure they were his keys?

Can you tell us anything more about Sam? What he looked like? What ge did for a living? Was he involved in political causes?

I trusted Tom V and his connections ( he has some very good connections)The Keys were traced back to a po box in Eureka ,and the person Sam ,was the one who had that box at that time in 1990.

He was a insurance salesman who traveled all over Calif. He looked tall in the picture we got of him about 6 ft tall. He had some money and owned a home in S.F. His family had lived in S.F.
To me he didn’t look like the Z composite.

He also owned property near Modesto at the right time for the K.Johns ride. A lot of things did add up for him being a good suspect. He had moods at times when he would want to be alone. A lot of the info we got, was from a family member.

Dahlia and I went up to Eureka and found writing samples of his, they looked pretty good. We also went to his home and took pictures, his garage door was open. To me The Z would never leave anything open.
More like L. Kane who has everything closed off from the world, you can not see into his place at all !
It is amazing how many people we can build a case around on circumstantial evidence alone .

AK Wilks, Subject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card Mon Jun 28, 2010 3:38 pm

Is it possible Sam lost his PO Box keys, or that someone else had the same keys before him? I mean, how do we know that picture wasn’t taken in 1986?

To your knowledge, did Sam have any interest in radical politics or politics of any kind?

Any criminal record?

bruce3, Subject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card Sat Jul 03, 2010 3:12 pm

It’s 2010 so that stamp needs to be tested for DNA and that may end all the guessing.

, Subject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card Fri Sep 03, 2010 5:40 pm

…any chance the "gadget" on the ring with the keys is not a magnet, but a vintage refillable marker/felt tip such as ones Z may have had or used, e.g:

, Subject: Flashlight? Fri Sep 03, 2010 6:27 pm

Looks to me like one of little keychain penlight/flashlight thingies. The bulb is on the right; press the button on the left to light it.

, Subject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card Fri Sep 03, 2010 6:41 pm

….sigh…..you’re right, I know, or it’s one of those "magnet thingies", but I was just trying to tie it together…LOL

OTOH, if, say 15 years from now, Z is somehow identified, and it turns out this letter is genuine and this is a little vintage felt tip, the you simply owe me $10 million….not to worry… LMAO :bball: :queen:

, Subject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card Fri Sep 03, 2010 6:44 pm

Works for me Zabs! Let’s make it an even 11 mil! heh heh heh

tahoe27, Subject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card Fri Sep 03, 2010 6:58 pm

Mine is a magnet:

linda, Subject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card Fri Sep 03, 2010 7:08 pm

Mine is a magnet:

This, to me, looks like an almost perfect match to the xerox photo… Would love to know what the wording was on it… Someone had blown it up a good bit and I thought I had remembered it appeared to also have a phone number on it… Can’t remember where I’d seen it, though.

tahoe27, Subject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card Fri Sep 03, 2010 7:11 pm

There is a big thread at Tom’s site about it.

It is a (707) area code.

States something like "BUX"….I’ll go back and look.

, Subject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card Sat Sep 04, 2010 12:32 am

I’d call this a fake, except there’s nothing about it that really shows that it was intended to be a Zodiac missive in the first place. The only thing it has going for it is the style of card selected.

-The address handwriting doesn’t really match.
-It was traced over, which Zodiac never did.
-It was written in pencil, another thing Zodiac didn’t do.
-The address was written out in full.
-There’s nothing to indicate the keys have anything to do with Zodiac.

The "Sam" thing is a moot point. His DNA didn’t match. Tom gave up on him years ago now.

When discussing the stamps, you have to remember that, unlike today, where you could get any number of different styles of stamps for standard postage, that wasn’t the case then. If you notice, the Ted K. letter in the picture on the first page was also sent out in December of 1990. It was likely the most produced stamp at the time.

, Subject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card Sat Sep 04, 2010 10:58 am

I agree with you, Mr. B….I was just having a little fun!

, Subject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card Sat Sep 04, 2010 10:04 pm

-It was traced over, which Zodiac never did.

Not exactly true. Look at the 10/27/70 Halloween card envelope.

tahoe27, Subject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card Sun Sep 05, 2010 1:26 pm

-It was traced over, which Zodiac never did.

Not exactly true. Look at the 10/27/70 Halloween card envelope.

This is actually interesting to me because I have often thought the Halloween card might NOT be from Zodiac. The writing on that envelope looks nothing like Zodiac’s imo. I never found a "y" written like that by Z–even the other letters on the envelope–as well as the circle-cross. And why now write 5th & Mission?

Not of popular opinion, I know.

morf13, Subject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card Sun Sep 05, 2010 1:38 pm

I think the general take overall on this letter is that it is a fake. Thats fine with me as I have no personal interest either way as to it being genuine or not. I am 50/50 on it, and dont know if I have enough info to decide one way or another. But I am curious, if the overall opinion on this letter is FAKE…why did the FBI experts not just rule it a fake?

I will start a poll, and try and see what the overall numbers look like.

, Subject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card Sun Sep 05, 2010 2:43 pm

-It was traced over, which Zodiac never did.

Not exactly true. Look at the 10/27/70 Halloween card envelope.

This is actually interesting to me because I have often thought the Halloween card might NOT be from Zodiac. The writing on that envelope looks nothing like Zodiac’s imo. I never found a "y" written like that by Z–even the other letters on the envelope–as well as the circle-cross. And why now write 5th & Mission?

Not of popular opinion, I know.

AweShucks, you certainly have a point here…it’s been a while since I’d looked at the envelope for the Halloween card, and it would seem to have some doubling. However…

Tahoe, you’re actually starting to win me over with your opinion. I’ve at the very least gone from feeling the card was definitely from Zodiac to not being so sure. There are a few glaring inconsistencies with that card.

And just to restate my Eureka opinion…I don’t think it’s a fake, I think it has absolutely nothing to do with Zodiac at all.

zodio, Subject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card Sun Sep 05, 2010 6:49 pm

IMHO the Eureka card is authentic.
No idea what the photocopy would signify though.

, Subject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card Mon Sep 06, 2010 2:25 pm

And just to restate my Eureka opinion…I don’t think it’s a fake, I think it has absolutely nothing to do with Zodiac at all.

It is very likely a Unabomber correspondence Ted can be confirmed in the area that year.

linda, Subject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card Mon Sep 06, 2010 2:37 pm

If Zodiac is found to be Ted, he could have been sending it to "kill two birds with one stone." No pun intended; however, he could have been throwing out the clues to both Unabomber and Zodiac activities.

To me, more than likely the Secret Pal Card of 1990 reflects from the Zodiac (based on the Z Secret Pal card) more than any correspondences from the Unabomber.

, Subject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card Mon Sep 06, 2010 3:07 pm

Yes Linda perhaps it is best to say this is an authentic TJK correspondence. I say this is 99% TJK Under what disguise doesn’t really matter. IMHO arguing any of these letters authenticity is moot. None of these are going to make or break this case/s at this point.

, Subject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card Mon Sep 06, 2010 3:18 pm

And just to restate my Eureka opinion…I don’t think it’s a fake, I think it has absolutely nothing to do with Zodiac at all.

It is very likely a Unabomber correspondence Ted can be confirmed in the area that year.

Hmmm…that’s an interesting possibility. But what could the significance of it (and the keys) be if it was Ted K.?

AK, comment?

, Subject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card Mon Sep 06, 2010 3:24 pm

I think Doug Oswell figured it to be an anagram for Kaczynski http://unazod.com/eureka.html

, Subject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card Mon Sep 06, 2010 3:30 pm

Thanks for the link, Awe…the thing that gets me is the handwriting in the note does look quite similar to that on the Eureka envelope.

Did Ted have a propensity for using pencil at all?

, Subject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card Mon Sep 06, 2010 8:47 pm

I thought I remember reading or seeing somewhere that he used mechanical pencils, but I do not remember where…I will have to look for that….I don’t know what they let them use in prison….probably not mechanical pencils, as there is too much that could be "done" with them….

Nachtsider, Subject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card Mon Sep 06, 2010 9:54 pm

I know Ted handwrote his journals. How many of his threatening Unabomber letters were handwritten, though?

AK Wilks, Subject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card Mon Sep 06, 2010 11:22 pm

I know Ted handwrote his journals. How many of his threatening Unabomber letters were handwritten, though?

To my knowledge all were typed.

linda, Subject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card Tue Sep 07, 2010 2:53 am

Yes Linda perhaps it is best to say this is an authentic TJK correspondence. I say this is 99% TJK Under what disguise doesn’t really matter. IMHO arguing any of these letters authenticity is moot. None of these are going to make or break this case/s at this point.

No disagreement there. And if it truly is a TK correspondence, I can just imagine what "fun" he had when he found this card and what chuckles he must have received from sending it…

, Subject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card Tue Sep 07, 2010 1:55 pm

I know Ted handwrote his journals. How many of his threatening Unabomber letters were handwritten, though?

To my knowledge all were typed.

Never Mind I misread the post

Theforeigner, Subject: Eureka card prod. date 1990 acc. to American Greetings Co Mon Sep 20, 2010 1:24 pm

According to Opord member z_assay: the Eureka card was produced in 1990 according to American Greetings Co.

AK Wilks, Subject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card Mon Sep 20, 2010 2:30 pm

Theforeigner posted:

According to Opord member z_assay: the Eureka card was produced in 1990 according to American Greetings Co.

Interesting. Thanks for posting that.

I wonder if the Christmas Tree with "Greetings" stamp was also issued in 1990?

, Subject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card Mon Sep 20, 2010 4:23 pm

Now that we know the date is authentic, the next logical question is, "was it sent by the Zodiac?"

I also have additional questions about Tom’s follow-up on the USPS keys. Maybe Sandie can answer some of these.

Once the USPS office was located and the PO Box pertaining to the keys, was a current key acquired to match up the photocopied keys unique cut? If so, were they a match?
Did Tom inquire if the locks were ever changed on the PO Boxes, and if so, when?
(the two precluding questions would determine if the correct PO Box was indeed located, or even potentially located)
Was "Sam" the owner of the PO Box the entire year of 1990?
Who was the previous owner, and what was the timeframe of ownership?
Did Sam ever loan his PO Box keys to neighbors, etc?
Did Sam ever lose his keys or did he ever have his keys replaced?
Was there ever any attempt to identify the employees working at the USPS office in the year 1990 that may have had access to the keys?
I don’t quite understand why there are two keys… Does every PO Box come with two different keys, or do the keys indicate two different PO Boxes?
If there are two different PO Boxes, did Sam own both of them?
If not, who was the other owner?

Did Tom ever detail his investigation into the keys and the PO Box(es)? If so, can someone provide a link? It would seem very wasteful and foolish to perform this type of leg work and not document the results in detail for others to read.

AK Wilks, Subject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card Mon Sep 20, 2010 5:06 pm

Very good questions. I wish I knew the answers. Tom has been pretty secretive about the whole SAM aspect.

Maybe someone can post what they know.

Meanwhile, I think a "little fishie" posted these, which serve to higlight what the numbers are thought to be.

AK Wilks, Subject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card Mon Sep 20, 2010 5:08 pm

The keys were checked, and found to belong to Sam at a po box in Eureka.
Myself and Dahlia were the ones who helped Tom V. with his Sam investigation.
Sam was a pretty interesting person, and kept us going for a while.
I saw the Card, and believe that it was sent from the Zodiac, but Sam was not the Zodiac.
That thing that was attached to the keys that Mike B said had to be a magnet, turns out that it could have been a pen light. A pen light would make a lot more sense if it was from the Z, not a magnet. I have had these small pen lights before, and I used them to see key holes at night. Z claimed to have used one on his gun at Lake Herman rd.

The picture of keys that were sent with the Christmas card, I think was another game the z likes to play. He could have found them on the ground somewhere ? They were traced to Sam is how he became a suspect.
There are certain things that I have noticed on other cards sent from the Z, that I found on this Eureka card, is why I believe it is a true Z card.

Look back at all the Z like things that happened in 1990 ? Something made him come out from under his rock that yr. It was also the same yr that my suspect forced me to quit my job of many yrs. He was getting more brazen, pointing guns at me, then trying to force me off of roads late at night. It would have been too easy for him to get me had I stayed at my job, and drive 45 miles home each night.
I went into hiding for a few months, but he found me anyway.

My suspect loves his game of cat and mouse, me being the mouse of course lol.

AK Wilks, Subject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card Mon Sep 20, 2010 5:10 pm

How can you be sure they were his keys?

Can you tell us anything more about Sam? What he looked like? What ge did for a living? Was he involved in political causes?

I trusted Tom V and his connections ( he has some very good connections)The Keys were traced back to a po box in Eureka ,and the person Sam ,was the one who had that box at that time in 1990.

He was a insurance salesman who traveled all over Calif. He looked tall in the picture we got of him about 6 ft tall. He had some money and owned a home in S.F. His family had lived in S.F.
To me he didn’t look like the Z composite.

He also owned property near Modesto at the right time for the K.Johns ride. A lot of things did add up for him being a good suspect. He had moods at times when he would want to be alone. A lot of the info we got, was from a family member.

Dahlia and I went up to Eureka and found writing samples of his, they looked pretty good. We also went to his home and took pictures, his garage door was open. To me The Z would never leave anything open.
More like L. Kane who has everything closed off from the world, you can not see into his place at all !
It is amazing how many people we can build a case around on circumstantial evidence alone .

morf13, Subject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card Mon Sep 20, 2010 5:46 pm

Very good questions. I wish I knew the answers. Tom has been pretty secretive about the whole SAM aspect.

Maybe someone can post what they know.

Meanwhile, I think a "little fishie" posted these, which serve to higlight what the numbers are thought to be.

I posted this before, but will do so again. I asked my local post office guy (experienced guy that has been with them for over 20 years) what the numbers on my po box keys meant. He said that they were an internal number used by that specific post office for the mailbox info. He said that only if you knew what branch the keys belonged to, would you know what the numbers meant. For example, if you found a po box key in Vallejo, you couldnt take it into Riverside, and get them to look up the key and tell you who’s po bx it belonged to. But if the key was lying on the ground outside of the Vallejo Post office, and was turned into them (and if it belonged to them), then they could look it up and get info about who it belonged to.

tahoe27, Subject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card Mon Sep 20, 2010 6:08 pm

Meanwhile, I think a "little fishie" posted these, which serve to higlight what the numbers are thought to be.

Print out an 8 x 10 photo of the keys. It is: 79468 & 58351

It does look like the above at first glance. The three stamp is rounded. You can see it doesn’t have the same circular area as the 8. The zero sure likes like one, but it is a 6. They too are rounded. The "belly" of the 6 almost touches the top. It’s hard to see. If you print out a large version…you can see it. (I have a 3 and 6 on my keys and mine were given to me in ’91 and ’04 and are stamped the same way.)

Morf–you are correct. My PO guy told me the same thing, but I told him I lost mine and didn’t know where. He said they could be traced to me, but it wasn’t an easy task. I’d be better off changing the locks.

I wonder without the actual keys–if the numbers were given incorrectly, were they traced to the wrong person??! AND were they both owned by the same person?

, Subject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card Mon Sep 20, 2010 6:11 pm

Sandy,

Could you please clarify some of your statements and/or help answer my questions? A lot of what you previously posted is very vague. No offense to Tom, but it’s not very helpful to take people’s "word" when trying to investigate. Of course, he did the work and he’s not obligated to share any of his findings, but we all share the same goal (at least I hope we all do), which is to reveal Zodiac’s identity and/or have him captured and convicted.

Could you shed some more light on the following:

"The keys were checked."
How were they checked – what method(s) were used?

"and found to belong to Sam at a po box in Eureka."
How were they traced back to Sam – what method(s) were used?

"Sam was a pretty interesting person, and kept us going for a while."
How was he interesting? How old was he? Did he seem intelligent? What was his estimated weight (you mention 6′ tall for height)? How long did he own the PO Box? Did he own the PO Box the entire year of 1990?

"I saw the Card, and believe that it was sent from the Zodiac"
Why do you think the card was sent from the Zodiac? What specific characteristics of the card ties into the Zodiac in your opinion?

"Sam was not the Zodiac?"
What evidence (circumstantial or otherwise) ruled him out as a suspect?

"That thing that was attached to the keys that Mike B said had to be a magnet, turns out that it could have been a pen light…Z claimed to have used one on his gun at Lake Herman rd."
Didn’t Zodiac claim he taped a flashlight to his gun originally? A small pen light would not be powerful enough to light up an open area – they are used for upclose inspection in the dark, like a key hole as you pointed out.

"He could have found them on the ground somewhere ? They were traced to Sam is how he became a suspect."
Was that hypothesis – of Zodiac finding keys – ever explored through questioning? Did Sam ever lose, loan, or replace his keys? Were USPS employees ever checked out? How were the keys "traced" back to Sam.

"There are certain things that I have noticed on other cards sent from the Z, that I found on this Eureka card, is why I believe it is a true Z card. "
Can you please explain?

Sandy – if you were part of the investigation led by Tom, you should have first hand knowledge with somewhat detailed accounts of the tracing process, validation process, and subsequent process of ruling out Sam as a suspect. Do you know if Tom has written any type of extensive or detailed report or brief on this particular subject that is made available online?

All I know, is that Tom pretty much considers the Eureka card a dead-end, or fake, or simply inconsequential. The images of the card are no longer available on ZK.com via a hyperlink, but you can still access the images if you know the direct URL. I think there is more to this card than meets the eye.

, Subject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card Mon Sep 20, 2010 6:21 pm

Ok, so we know there is a way to trace PO Box keys to a person. The obvious follow-up questions to that would be, how then was the trace validated? We can all agree the numbers are very hard to make out with high certainty. How do we know the numbers used were the correct ones; therefore, tracing back to the correct person? Another obvious question would be to ask if the lock had been changed since 1990 (chances are they have been). Also, was it verified that "Sam" was the owner of the PO Box for the entire year of 1990, and even 1989?

AK Wilks, Subject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card Mon Sep 20, 2010 6:36 pm

From Morf:

1990 Eureka Card:

, Subject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card Mon Sep 20, 2010 6:54 pm

Thanks AK,

I mentioned Tom Voigt removing the Eureka card image links from his site to infer his disinterest in the card. I still have the URLs to the high resolution scans that were once linked on ZK.com. It’s how I retrieved the image of the back of the card to extract the barcode and card ID in order to forward to Amercian Greetings Co.

, Subject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card Mon Sep 20, 2010 8:48 pm

Print out an 8 x 10 photo of the keys. It is: 79468 & 58351

I was wrong??? WRONG YOU SAY?!?!?? Well… maybe. I think you might be correct about the 58351. But I’m pretty sure the other is 79408.

This is the best pic I have… might be a little better than what’s been posted.

-tbz

, Subject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card Mon Sep 20, 2010 9:47 pm

Thanks AK,

I mentioned Tom Voigt removing the Eureka card image links from his site to infer his disinterest in the card. I still have the URLs to the high resolution scans that were once linked on ZK.com. It’s how I retrieved the image of the back of the card to extract the barcode and card ID in order to forward to Amercian Greetings Co.

Ah, that was you! Nice job, man.

It’d be really nice of you to post the high resolution scans of the card, if you would

As for the key’s numbers…I’ve checked a few different copies of the keys, and I’m not sure…sometimes it looks like -08, sometimes it looks like -68. I’m torn. Check out this scan:

An aside, I’m not sure if Butterfield claimed the device was a magnet (I searched and couldn’t find his opinion on it), however Zsearcher on ZKF mentioned that it might be one.

AK Wilks, Subject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card Mon Sep 20, 2010 11:32 pm

The strange item with the keys was identified by Doug Oswell as a small pen magnet, often used in gold mining. (I presume to seperate Iron (Fe) from Gold (Au).

AK Wilks, Subject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card Mon Sep 20, 2010 11:35 pm

It looks just like this magnet to me.

Mine is a magnet:

Quagmire, Subject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card Tue Sep 21, 2010 5:49 am

Does anyone find it interesting that the FBI were sent a Christmas card regarding the Zodiac case 1 year after the Eureka card was sent to the Chronicle?

What I find intriguing is that no one knew about the Chronicle card as it was lost for years but after it was sent at Christmas 1990 (a full 21 years after the last murder), someone involved in the case decided to send a Christmas card to the FBI the following Christmas too. Curious and curiouser.

morf13, Subject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card Tue Sep 21, 2010 7:00 am

Does anyone find it interesting that the FBI were sent a Christmas card regarding the Zodiac case 1 year after the Eureka card was sent to the Chronicle?

What I find intriguing is that no one knew about the Chronicle card as it was lost for years but after it was sent at Christmas 1990 (a full 21 years after the last murder), someone involved in the case decided to send a Christmas card to the FBI the following Christmas too. Curious and curiouser.

More info please.

AK Wilks, Subject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card Tue Sep 21, 2010 10:53 am

Yeah I never heard about an Xmas card to the FBI. :scratch:

Where was it sent from? Date? What kind of card?

Give us what info you can and Morf and/or I will do a FOIA for it.

Quagmire, Subject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card Tue Sep 21, 2010 11:44 am

Here we go…

tahoe27, Subject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card Tue Sep 21, 2010 12:08 pm

Ok, now that is weird. I’m pretty sure Gold Purple Catcher sent a really big thing (to someone) about the Mt. Diablo code and the rules to solve it and it was quite lengthy.

Edit: Yah..all this is Goldcatcher/Purple Blaine.

Quagmire, Subject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card Tue Sep 21, 2010 12:18 pm

Ok, now that is weird. I’m pretty sure Gold Purple Catcher sent a really big thing (to someone) about the Mt. Diablo code and the rules to solve it and it was quite lengthy.

Edit: Yah..all this is Goldcatcher/Purple Blaine.

Yep – 10/10 for Tahoe27!

I found it really strange that there were no cards of any note linked to the Z case for 2 decades and then Christmas 1990 one turns up at the Chronicle and Christmas 1991 Goldcatcher delivers one to the FBI along with his huge manifest on how to solve the Mt Diablo code. Seeing as he apparently had no way of knowing that a card was sent the Christmas before that is a pretty big coincidence.

tahoe27, Subject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card Tue Sep 21, 2010 12:29 pm

So do you think the Eureka card could have been sent by Goldcatcher to try and stir up the Zodiac case since he had been trying to out Gaikowski?

I’m not trying to accuse the guy of anything…just thinking out loud.

Would like to see that Christmas card!

Quagmire, Subject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card Tue Sep 21, 2010 12:37 pm

Really don’t know what to think to be honest. Seems like it could just be a massive coincidence but I suppose there could be more to it. Would love to know if there’s any DNA on that Eureka envelope.

Nachtsider, Subject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card Tue Sep 21, 2010 1:22 pm

Given Blaine’s penchant for out-and-out identifying himself as the originator of a communication, I highly doubt that he sent the enigmatic Eureka card.

AK Wilks, Subject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card Tue Sep 21, 2010 1:34 pm

Blaine is, to put it mildly, kinda weird.

It seems he delivered his magnum opus 118 page decode to the FBI and also gave them a Xmas card.

That is how I read it.

Quagmire, Subject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card Tue Sep 21, 2010 1:51 pm

Blaine is, to put it mildly, kinda weird.

It seems he delivered his magnum opus 118 page decode to the FBI and also gave them a Xmas card.

That is how I read it.

Yes, it wasn’t an anonymous posted card but he did deliver a xmas card bundled with a Zodiac document a year after someone else decided to post a Zodiac Christmas card. The case is littered with cards/letters being sent by the killer on anniversaries but there was nothing for decades then all of a sudden 2 xmas cards in 2 consecutive years – one supposedly from the killer and one from someone who supposedly knows the killer. Then nothing again for another 2 decades… :confused:

AK Wilks, Subject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card Tue Sep 21, 2010 1:57 pm

I see your point. But outside of Blaine hoaxing the 1990 card, what could the connection be?

Maybe RG gave Blaine a Xmas card, and Blaine turned it over to the FBI with his code stuff so the FBI could look at RG’s handwriting?

I personally will not do a FOIA for this card right now as I think it is likely from Blaine, or possibly from RG, and I just don’t have much interest in either, and as I have several FOIA’s pending, I don’t want to slow them down by adding this to the mix.

If anyone is interested in doing a FOIA, it is simple. Morf and I have discussed the procedures elsewhere, and you can go to the FBI site and it is all explained. Or you can PM me for info.

, Subject: Pen Magnet for Mining Thu Sep 23, 2010 12:32 am

So, am I the only person who thinks there might be a correlation between the pen magnet for mining gold and the greeting card with the miner on the dragon (my ass is a dragon)? Was Zodiac trying to hint that he had an interest in mining?

My POI used haunted mines as themes in some of his stories/artwork, replete with old miners much like the one depicted in the greeting card. That might be it, that might not. But, in any case, I think the Zodiac was trying to give us a hint.

, Subject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card Thu Sep 23, 2010 1:40 am

So, am I the only person who thinks there might be a correlation between the pen magnet for mining gold and the greeting card with the miner on the dragon (my ass is a dragon)? Was Zodiac trying to hint that he had an interest in mining?

I’d say that’s a bit of a stretch.

Nachtsider, Subject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card Thu Sep 23, 2010 3:38 am

Interest in mining? I don’t think so. Worked in the mining business? Possible. Miners handle explosives, after all.

Quagmire, Subject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card Thu Sep 23, 2010 4:13 am

Or it could have been a sick clew from Arthur Leigh Allen – he was into minors. :face:

morf13, Subject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card Thu Sep 23, 2010 6:57 am

So, am I the only person who thinks there might be a correlation between the pen magnet for mining gold and the greeting card with the miner on the dragon (my ass is a dragon)? Was Zodiac trying to hint that he had an interest in mining?

My POI used haunted mines as themes in some of his stories/artwork, replete with old miners much like the one depicted in the greeting card. That might be it, that might not. But, in any case, I think the Zodiac was trying to give us a hint.

Dont forget the mining place that was located on Lake Herman Rd…and they used TNT also.

tahoe27, Subject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card Thu Sep 23, 2010 11:53 am

Or it could have been a sick clew from Arthur Leigh Allen – he was into minors. :face:

:affraid:

tahoe27, Subject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card Thu Sep 23, 2010 11:53 am

So, am I the only person who thinks there might be a correlation between the pen magnet for mining gold and the greeting card with the miner on the dragon (my ass is a dragon)? Was Zodiac trying to hint that he had an interest in mining?

My POI used haunted mines as themes in some of his stories/artwork, replete with old miners much like the one depicted in the greeting card. That might be it, that might not. But, in any case, I think the Zodiac was trying to give us a hint.

Dont forget the mining place that was located on Lake Herman Rd…and they used TNT also.

As well as the base of Mt. Diablo….Mt. Zion.

Theforeigner, Subject: Snowman fake nose/glasses also in Zodiac movie 1971 Thu Jul 28, 2011 10:00 am

I found it interesting that the in the movie "The Zodiac Killer" a 1971 film directed by Tom Hanson, the apparent killer wear fake nose/glasses just like the Dec 1990 Possible Zodiac Christmas card snowman.

What it means, if anything, I have no idea? But maybe somthing to think about.

Here is a link to lots info on the card
http://www.zodiackillerfacts.com/zodiac … s-card.htm

Here are links to info on the movie in question: The Zodiac Killer a 1971 film directed by Tom Hanson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtfZtCAxM8c Link to the youtube clip from the film were i took the image were a guy who found Zodiac’s diquise fake nose/glasses

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOOM-wA2rOY Link to the youtube clip from the film were Zodiac stabb a girl while he is wearing the fake nose/glasses

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Zodiac_Killer_(film )

http://www.bleedingskull.com/dvd/zodiackiller.html

http://www.allrovi.com/movies/movie/v56167

http://www.die-ritze.com/zodiac.htm German website with stills from the movie and an apparent recomendation of the film by Paul Avery (IF authentic?)

Theforeigner, Subject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card Thu Jul 28, 2011 10:07 am

According to the Paul Avery introduction the movie production started in June 1970.
Which means that the Dec 1990 Christmas card was sent on the 20 year anniversery of the movie (year wise from 1970 to 1990 is 20 years).

http://www.tcmuk.tv/movie_database_resu … &id=559485

The film opens with the following written prologue: "The motion picture you are about to see was conceived in June 1970. Its goal is not to win commercial awards but to create an ‘awareness of a present danger.’ Zodiac is based on known facts. If some of the scenes, dialogue, and letters seem strange and unreal, remember-they happened. My life was threatened on Oct. 28, 1970 by Zodiac. His victims have received no warnings. They were unsuspecting people like you– Paul Avery, Reporter San Francisco Chronicle."

Theforeigner, Subject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card Thu Jul 28, 2011 1:07 pm

"Jerry" the killer/Zodiac in the movie, apparently have Bunnies as pets, and in the Dec 1990 card a bunny is sitting right in front of the Snowman w/ the false nose a glasses !

http://www.somethingweird.com/cart.php? … t_id=38046

Jerry (HAL REED), a shy, affable mailman who doesn’t feel comfortable around people and keeps bunny rabbits as friends.

http://www.horrorspeak.com/ubbthreads/s … 1563&page=

Jerry is full of great moments. Upon returning home and finding one of his beloved bunnies dead he wails out a lament…”Why are evil people allowed to live, while innocent rabbits like Leo must die…For no reason at all”! A great scene played to camp perfection by Reed.

Luke68, Subject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card Sun Jun 03, 2012 4:22 pm

I’m convinced this is a Unabomber missive. In addition to the comparisons made above to the Christmas letter that Ted wrote, I believe there are hidden clues that relate to Archimedes. First a comparison:

Archimedes could be considered to have similar views as Kaczynski when it comes to the by-products of science, technology, and innovation in general, over which the scientist or innovator may have no control. Archimedes was in pursuit of "geometric truths" (Plutarch in Kaas, 2004), but needed to apply his knowledge to the practical application of creating "machines" in order for the King to continue providing his support – not unlike research laboratories today. The King recognized that Archimedes machines were created as "mere amusements in geometry" (Plutarch), but prods him into prove his speculative science, that is "too intricate for proof by words and diagrams" (Plutarch), ultimately creating machines of "mere corruption and annihilation" (Plutarch). Although Archimedes was a theorist like Kaczynski and oversaw the use of his "machines" to defend Syracuse, he did not create them for that purpose.

Now the clues. First, the fact this was sent from Eureka and second, the magnet (used in gold prospecting)…

…Archimedes, the polymath who in one apocryphal story leaped from a bath shouting, "Eureka!" (I have it) after figuring out how to tell if a royal crown was made of solid gold by submerging it in water and measuring the water it displaced.

AK Wilks, Subject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card Wed Jun 06, 2012 5:04 pm

I’m convinced this is a Unabomber missive. In addition to the comparisons made above to the Christmas letter that Ted wrote, I believe there are hidden clues that relate to Archimedes. First a comparison:

Archimedes could be considered to have similar views as Kaczynski when it comes to the by-products of science, technology, and innovation in general, over which the scientist or innovator may have no control. Archimedes was in pursuit of "geometric truths" (Plutarch in Kaas, 2004), but needed to apply his knowledge to the practical application of creating "machines" in order for the King to continue providing his support – not unlike research laboratories today. The King recognized that Archimedes machines were created as "mere amusements in geometry" (Plutarch), but prods him into prove his speculative science, that is "too intricate for proof by words and diagrams" (Plutarch), ultimately creating machines of "mere corruption and annihilation" (Plutarch). Although Archimedes was a theorist like Kaczynski and oversaw the use of his "machines" to defend Syracuse, he did not create them for that purpose.

Now the clues. First, the fact this was sent from Eureka and second, the magnet (used in gold prospecting)…

…Archimedes, the polymath who in one apocryphal story leaped from a bath shouting, "Eureka!" (I have it) after figuring out how to tell if a royal crown was made of solid gold by submerging it in water and measuring the water it displaced.

Luke – Interesting observation! Since it is suspect specific, I continue it here: http://zodiackillersite.forummotion.com … stmas-1990

morf13, Subject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:39 pm

Hadnt seen this article before,so sorry if its posted someplace. Thought it was interesting that a ‘carpenter’s pencil’ was the little penlight looking thing along with the keys:
http://www.timesheraldonline.com/todays … ce=dailyme

tahoe27, Subject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card Tue Mar 12, 2013 5:10 pm

Obviously NOT a carpenter’s pencil.

Come to think of it, the snowman looks like it is wearing a "Groucho Marx" nose, eyeglasses and moustache combo.

Mike

Come to think of it, the snowman looks like it is wearing a "Groucho Marx" nose, eyeglasses and moustache combo.

Mike

Good point. Great, more mystery lol.

They maybe house keys or apartment keys. My GF that I got interested in the case just came up with house keys for our house that looks identical to them. Here I always thought they was PO BOX keys. Our house is from early century 1920’s and the keys look just like the ones in the Eureka card. Only difference is the bits are a little different which makes sense since no key should be the same. Good find by my GF Sue.

Sorry if this has been asked, I didn’t feel like reading through two years of threads again.

I know this is supposedly a real card but is that what the actual text on the card says? That is really weird and I don’t see how that could be. It also doesn’t look like handwriting, but printing. Did someone make this card on their computer? That’s what it looks like to me.

Hm…

two things:

First: The Good Times writing imo is indeed a very close match – do we know who wrote this notice?
Second: The small pen magnet – it was discussed that it reads ‘Buying & Selling’ on it. In this context I even could say that on the other side the word ‘gold’ is written on it. So it might be assumed that this is a gift from a gold buyer/seller? Unluckily the first word seems to be still unreadable…

QT

They maybe house keys or apartment keys. My GF that I got interested in the case just came up with house keys for our house that looks identical to them. Here I always thought they was PO BOX keys. Our house is from early century 1920’s and the keys look just like the ones in the Eureka card. Only difference is the bits are a little different which makes sense since no key should be the same. Good find by my GF Sue.

The keys are stamped "USPS"….they are PO Box keys.

They maybe house keys or apartment keys. My GF that I got interested in the case just came up with house keys for our house that looks identical to them. Here I always thought they was PO BOX keys. Our house is from early century 1920’s and the keys look just like the ones in the Eureka card. Only difference is the bits are a little different which makes sense since no key should be the same. Good find by my GF Sue.

The keys are stamped "USPS"….they are PO Box keys.

Your right and I jump the gun on them because they look just like them. So they are PO BOX keys. Can’t remember if anyone found out if the numbers meant anything on them ?

Hi-

Was the name of the owner of the PO Box ever made public? My memory is fuzzy but did he have a brother who was then made a suspect? They lived in PH, as I recall. Are these guys still alive? Do they live in SF?

Thanks.

Mike

Hi-

Was the name of the owner of the PO Box ever made public? My memory is fuzzy but did he have a brother who was then made a suspect? They lived in PH, as I recall. Are these guys still alive? Do they live in SF?

Thanks.

Mike

What does "PH" stand for? TIA

Presidio Heights.

Presidio Heights.

Thank you!

Hi-

Was the name of the owner of the PO Box ever made public? My memory is fuzzy but did he have a brother who was then made a suspect? They lived in PH, as I recall. Are these guys still alive? Do they live in SF?

Thanks.

Mike

Mike r, Yes that suspect ( Sam ) is still alive, he lives in Eureka. Dahlia and myself did the investigating for Tom V up there on Sam and his relatives. I became friends with Sam’s daughter to get even more information on him. He was a peculiar guy, who at one time did live very close to PH. He also had a ranch near Modesto for many yrs, but he is not even close to being the Zodiac. We found his writing / printing , some of the letters had a resemblance to Zodiac, but not enough . Tom V spoke to Sam, if I remember correctly ? And no his name has not been made public that I know of. I hope not, we should never put names of innocent people on the net. I have been accused of doing that with my suspects name, but I have only given his first initial and last name ,which is like saying J. Smith. There are people who know his name for investigative purposes , but it has never been made public by me.