I know who it is that you feel wrote that letter and I agree it is something that she is capable of doing, I don’t trust her at all. Regardless ,we can’t know for sure she did it unless she tells us she did.

I don’t think we are discussing the same person Sandy! I have no idea what this person is capable of and therefore, cannot speak of trust. Deborah P. was thrown into the mix early on, but…not her.

If you don’t trust someone, why would you believe them if they admitted to it?

I just wanted to make an annoucement-

We have been discussing the possibility that this letter sent to the SF Chron, and intended For Robert Graysmith, was a letter meant to be as a hoax or forgery, and that the spent alot of time and effort attempting to make RG think it was a real zodiac letter. RG refused the letter, and did not accept it. The overall concensus is, that this letter was not written by Zodiac, but rather by a person infatuated by Graysmith, and attempting to make it look like Zodiac sent it. Thanks to a few members of this forum, including Mods, Tahoe & Seagull, it was determined who this person was, and sadly, it was a member here on this forum, and on the old forum. I confronted this person flat out, and told them what I thought, and that they would have 48 hours to explain themselves. 48 Hours came and went without a peep from them,despite the fact they read the PM I sent them. Did they argue with me telling me I was wrong,and get mad that I was accusing them of something so awful? Nope, they let the 48 hours come and go with silence. They knew they were wrong, and that they were caught. I was left with no choice, but to ban this member from this site permanently. There is NO PLACE on this forum for hoxers, and copycats, attempting to pull one over on us all. We all spend to much time and effort analyzing, and discussing these case and the documents, and for somebody to deliberately and intentionally go out of their way to fool us is a real shame.

The letters below & card, are the materials in question. This person is also likely responsible for sending a Zodiac-like letter to the Sister of Donna Lass. These letters & cards sent to Graysmith, were without a doubt, forged Zodiac letters. The writing, formation, spacing,etc,etc was so Zodiac-like, that this was no accident,and was done intentionally. Again, there is NO PLACE for anybody on this forum found to be involved in hoaxing or forging a Zodiac document. I don’t expect this to ever happen again, but if it does, any member being involved, will be banned permanently.

Some people know who this banned Member is, if you do, there is no point mentioning them. They are gone, and they did not bring any real value to this forum from a research or discussion angle. There is a possibility that they are ill, and may have some issues in stalking Graysmith. I hope that is not the case, but if it is, I hope they get the help they may need. Anyhow, we will continue on without this person.

Morf

Hm. I know you are going to bash me, Morf, but my approach doesn’t allow to ignore those letters

First – you banned someone for posting this ‘hoax’ letters or for faking them? If you know the guy or guys who had faked the letters..did they admit to having done so? Curiousity.

1st letter/card
‘att:’ (one of the envelopes)
‘I know’ (four times underlined)
‘Sorry that I haven’t’ (dripping pen card)
‘to see if any thing’ (curved ‘f’, very authentic)
‘a way around in the dark’ (around in the snow)
‘This’ (th connected closely)
‘care’ (letter ‘r’ written as a ‘v’)
+ (plus symbol connection between the two lines)
‘safe’ (curved f)
‘will always be with you’ (I’ve always been there)
PS

2nd letter
‘for get’ (curved f)
warf?
‘I was’ (letter I written with two bars)
‘for me’ (curved f)
‘If only they knew’ (100% authentic ‘f’)
relief (f)
justice (J)
+
water + say (+)
+ maybe (+)
beautiful
‘Follow’ the paper

3rd leter
I
from (f)
fall from (f)
fills (f)
faith + control (…)
this guilt that festers in my heart …split me apart (rhyme)
If (f)

4rth letter
I will look for infor (I, l, k, o, r, f…)
‘just say to the KEY (website nickname?) and I know its yours
ice blue car…son in the front seat
your # stoped him (dyslectic)
off (f)
work, think, thursday, you would pick-up your dry cleaning (appears as if it is a secret appointment)
Chronicle
He had the key to his house, he had the key to the gate (LHR gate?)

Just my thoughts. The handwriting, in many parts, is very if not most authentic. I can live with it if someone say that is all hoax. What I personally would not be able to do is to fake all of those letters, all of its words and little pieces in such an authentic way.

QT

First – you banned someone for posting this ‘hoax’ letters or for faking them? If you know the guy or guys who had faked the letters..did they admit to having done so? Curiousity.
QT

morf answered this in the post above yours.

***

And this is exactly why this person was banned. I could tell people it was me and they’d still think it was Zodiac!

People like this muck things up. Seemed nice enough, but throwing in fake Zodiac writing with little teases is just WRONG in every way.

They studied his writing and made it very clear they new every little Zodiac handwriting trait. Even offered their own reasoning as to why one of the other letters had to be a fake and compared every little detail. They new it WELL.

It won’t matter though…some people just like to think Zodiac is still writin’ letters and has some sort of bond with Robert Graysmith.

Ok, may I please refer to Morf’s comment in detail?

‘The overall concensus is, that this letter was not written by Zodiac, but rather by a person infatuated by Graysmith, and attempting to make it look like Zodiac sent it. Thanks to a few members of this forum, including Mods, Tahoe & Seagull, it was determined who this person was, and sadly, it was a member here on this forum, and on the old forum.

Interesting and sad to find that out, but do we KNOW that this person had actually faked the letters?

‘I confronted this person flat out, and told them what I thought, and that they would have 48 hours to explain themselves. 48 Hours came and went without a peep from them, despite the fact they read the PM I sent them.’

Don’t know what I would have answered if I believed the letters to be ‘real’?

This person is also likely responsible for sending a Zodiac-like letter to the Sister of Donna Lass. These letters & cards sent to Graysmith, were without a doubt, forged Zodiac letters.

Which one? The ‘Guardian of the Pines’ Card does not resemble the handwriting of these letters, imo.

‘The writing, formation, spacing,etc,etc was so Zodiac-like, that this was no accident, and was done intentionally.’

What I mean is that just because a letter appears to be very authentic (‘intentionally’) it must not necessarily be a fake. This is why I question it, do not doubt but question it. To me, if the letters are fake, the handwriting looks excellent, even brilliant. Impossible to fake such a letter for someone how doesn’t do such stuff frequently. No questionm Kujau once made the ‘Tagebücher’ and even Germany’s biggest magazine did believe they were real. Forgery is an issue.

Asking which letter would have been the oldest, I’d say the first one. Was this postcard eventually the reason why RGS had started to write a book about the case? Or did he in fact reject them?

The only thing I wonder: If this person was interested in Graysmith, could this interest have been for any other reason than being infatuated to him? And if, assuming (!) for a second that the letters were authentic, what is or was her connections to e.g. the Chronicle or RGS? Was she living in California, and if so – where? According to this handwriting, I’d not have closed that door so easily, but well.

Shattered Remains.

Something else: ‘Follow the paper’ is a hint I’d rather not expect immediately in such a letter. Do we know when it was created/sent?

QT

Here’s the deal, as I said, this letter is the BEST hoaxed letter, I have ever seen. The person studied hard,and took their time writing it. They made it sound as if they were Zodiac,and tried to sound cryptic. But it IS A HOAXED letter.
Sometimes, we want the mystery to keep going, and we want Zodiac letters to continue to come in,but this is not a zodiac letter. It was proven to be by a fraud, and the writer was actually a female. And again, if I sent you a pm accusing you of writing a faked zodiac letter, wouldn’t you get mad,or fire back at me, or tell me that you don’t appreciate the accusation? This person read the PM, and never responded. They knew they were caught, and they were embarrassed. That’s the end of the story.

If anybody is thinking about leaving this forum because we banned a person that created a bogus zodiac letter, then Good Luck moving on. There is NO PLACE on this forum for people that endorse,support, or create hoaxed or fake Z letters.

The process of getting some of these letters to even discuss, is not easy. It takes leg work like going to the Chronicle, or it takes weeks of filling out paperwork and sending requests to the FBI to get questioned Zodiac documents released. Then we spend hours examining them, analyzing them,and discussing them. The case is messy enough without forged or fake zodiac letters getting added to the mix.

I do want to point one thing out that I mistakenly reported,which wasm that this is NOT the same person who sent that letter to the Sister of Donna Lass-that was a different Female.

I don’t want this to be an ongoing discussion, it’s over. If anybody has a problem, please PM me.

I really don’t understand why people want to cling to the hope that this is a real letter. It’s not. I’m certain there is some other aspect of the case you can latch onto and expand upon and not waste everyone’s time in the process. Yes, this IS a waste of time!

..speechless. Obviously there is no discussion about those letters. Personally I don’t know either of both females, nor have I heard or read about them and the letters being a hoax elsewhere. Don’t even know where they come from. Well. BTW, is there any possibility that all letters of Z (those with such a curved ‘f’ in it) had been written by a female?

And, besides not answering any message from the admin, are there any other hints that the letters actually are faked? Or do they come from that girl who made a live-on-the-street press conference claiming her dad was Z? Thx,

QT

#lovestobelieveineverythingevenmyths#

And, besides not answering any message from the admin, are there any other hints that the letters actually are faked? Or do they come from that girl who made a live-on-the-street press conference claiming her dad was Z? Thx,

QT

Yes and no, in that order.

QT there was very strong evidence as to who wrote these letters, say 99% certain it was a particular female person. When Morf confronted that person, she did not protest her innocence or offer any explanation. We all took that as basically a confession of guilt.

Bottom line these are NOT letters from Zodiac. That is it. If you want to research them you can, but we are trying to tell you it is a waste of time.

We want to move on.

Get back to the 340!

Watch this video,sound familiar?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KX5jNnDMfxA

When AK states 99.9%, he means it.

I appreciate all members of this board and therefore will keep it short and honest.

You both refer to each other (‘when AK states 99.9%, he means it‘…’When Morf confronted that person, she did not protest’) but don’t come up with anything that would indicate the letters indeed ARE fake. Personally, I got no idea if the letters are faked or not. However, if I am not as dumb as someone might believe, you either got additional information on this issue or are both digging in the dark as I do. Overall, except mentioning two women, I couldn’t find any reason WHY the letters actually may be fake (well, the letters obviously DO exist)..

And it is not obvious that they are fake, imo, at least not with the information I know about them.

With all respect, but just because one or two (or even more) members claim the letters are fake (or non-fake), it doesn’t mean necessarily that they are (or are not) faked. I’d rather say as long as FBI doesn’t take them for real, after a detailled analysis, no Z letter is ‘real’ at all. And, sorry to mention, just because a member does not react on a 48h time limit it doesn’t mean any confession regarding the letters being fake either.

Aux contraire monsieurs, everybody in life may want to be aware of an estimated 1 billion+ reasons why some does not answer on a pm (doesnt want to, no time, sick, pc probs, dog ate cat, baby crying, donut dropping on the floor, Visalia ransacker coming etc.). Maybe the person didn’t even have any idea if they are fake or not (or she had), but passively admitting the letters to be faked simply doesn’t work out. So we talk about a 1:1,000,000,000+ chance now and am I confident that you will agree regarding such possibilities why someone may or may not answer a personal message from an admin, especially if the message refers to a letter being faked (which is a serious issue and could lead to further legal/media issues, job loss etc. if responding to it in a wrong way).

Finally I got my personal opinion about the letters, not even stating they appear real or fake to me. Handwriting looks good, okay, but haven’t I even seen any envelope nor do I know where the letters actually had come from (and actually don’t care that much). But I wonder why they are not discussed more properly (as there are similarities in handwriting) or, on the other hand, why someone is not declaring them being a fake with solid reasons.

No need to continue on this issue, as AK and Morf might have good reasons to insist on the letters being fake, but I would finally like to mention that other members of this board had contacted me in a similar way mentioning it is quite rigid to not allow such a discussion and exclude someone from the board just for not answering in 48 hours (wtf?). The theory of a woman having written the letters (including curvy ‘f’s) for Z is weird, btw, but not eliminated. A reason that would speak against it, is the footprint situation at LB (‘f’ was there as well as the male footprints). Nevertheless it may even be unsure to eliminate a second person being at the scene, e.g. writing on the car door while Z was killing Cecilia Shepard. Do we know? I don’t and also don’t think so but discussion should, as long as there is no proof for fake, definitely be allowed.

Z acting not alone but together with two women and them using internet would definitely be some hot news..

And, btw, didn’t the first of those letters actually come with an envelope ‘To Editor’ and ‘attn.’, with the card being a greeting card of Jestings, Oakland?

For those interested: The ‘Editor’ was written with a circle instead of a simple dot on the ‘i’ of the word ‘Editor’, similar to the Stine letter envelope…also I realized that in most of his communications to the SF Chronicle Z did not write the address but rather only ‘SF Chronicle’, ‘Editor’ and ‘San Francisco, Calif’ on it. So he (or she ) actually did not use the street name on them. So he did on the LA Times letter..only the Avery Halloween Card envelope shows ‘5th – Mission’ as a street. I wonder if that was done by purpose? The citizen card 1974 appears to be the first with a street written on the envelope.

Not sure if the print on the stamp appears to be 22. Oct 2010, which would definitely be a reason to claim it being a fake..the stamp used was the ‘Purple Heart’ George Washington 44 cent, which was issued no earlier than April 28, 2009.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Washi … ue-44c.jpg

QT

QT–

This person gave clues in the letter as to how Robert could find them on the message board. I’m actually quite surprised more weren’t a bit more perceptive. Now that aside…of course we only had a screen name. Until recently.

The nice thing about this person is we didn’t need their handwriting. All we needed were their posts. They wrote things identical to what was in that letter BEFORE Sandy and Zam shared it. So it was either them or they were psychic.

Here’s the deal, as I said, this letter is the BEST hoaxed letter, I have ever seen. The person studied hard,and took their time writing it. They made it sound as if they were Zodiac,and tried to sound cryptic. But it IS A HOAXED letter.
Sometimes, we want the mystery to keep going, and we want Zodiac letters to continue to come in,but this is not a zodiac letter. It was proven to be by a fraud, and the writer was actually a female. And again, if I sent you a pm accusing you of writing a faked zodiac letter, wouldn’t you get mad,or fire back at me, or tell me that you don’t appreciate the accusation? This person read the PM, and never responded. They knew they were caught, and they were embarrassed. That’s the end of the story.

If anybody is thinking about leaving this forum because we banned a person that created a bogus zodiac letter, then Good Luck moving on. There is NO PLACE on this forum for people that endorse,support, or create hoaxed or fake Z letters.

The process of getting some of these letters to even discuss, is not easy. It takes leg work like going to the Chronicle, or it takes weeks of filling out paperwork and sending requests to the FBI to get questioned Zodiac documents released. Then we spend hours examining them, analyzing them,and discussing them. The case is messy enough without forged or fake zodiac letters getting added to the mix.

I do want to point one thing out that I mistakenly reported,which wasm that this is NOT the same person who sent that letter to the Sister of Donna Lass-that was a different Female.

I don’t want this to be an ongoing discussion, it’s over. If anybody has a problem, please PM me.

So if Tahoe was right and she figured this out back in August, 2012, as she stated in a post back then…why the long wait to ban this person? Didn’t Tahoe clue you in back then? I guess not, since relatively recently you were treating these letters as possibly real, or at the least worthy of discussion.

Something about how this whole scenario is playing out reeks…

JS

QT–

This person gave clues in the letter as to how Robert could find them on the message board. I’m actually quite surprised more weren’t a bit more perceptive. Now that aside…of course we only had a screen name. Until recently.

The nice thing about this person is we didn’t need their handwriting. All we needed were their posts. They wrote things identical to what was in that letter BEFORE Sandy and Zam shared it. So it was either them or they were psychic.

Tahoe,

Back in August, 2012 you posted that you knew who this person was, you were 100% positive…so why the long wait to ban them?

JS