So, if you have a challenge to the claim that the Military & CIA couldn’t solve it, I suggest you go take that up with Tom who clearly states otherwise in the 3rd clip as I am only quoting what he and others have stated.

That clip of Tom was done in 1999 before people figured out what a fabricator Graysmith was, I guarantee that Tom would not say that today.

The Crimes of the Century was done in 1989, see above.

I could not see the first clip you provided as it is blocked in my country.

Oh I see. My incompetence for thinking that any claims made before the turn of the 21st Century are still valid. So anything pre year 2000 we should dismiss and specifically respond to them with, quote: "Ha Ha Ha?"

The deal is Chappie, if you stated your source to begin with instead of going on and on skirting the issue of answering my simple question then it wouldn’t have gotten to this point. You will notice that many people include links in their posts, I’m not asking you to do something out of the ordinary. You are relatively new at this but you come on like gang busters, like your an authority. There is an enormous amount of material to digest. There are people who spend a couple of years reading and reading before ever making a post.

You have made a few interesting observations out of the more than 700 posts you’ve made on this forum alone so far, but even a broken clock is right twice a day. I suggest you educate yourself a bit more and source where your opinions come from because I think you will find that people will be willing to steer you in the right direction so that you don’t spin your wheels trusting erroneous information.

To clarify my comments about amateur code solvers working on an amateur code, I am not implying that ONLY amateurs could solve the code. That statement was in regards to the idea that the simplest explanation is that solving the cipher required some knowledge that only the cipher maker had, ergo the ones who solved it were also the ones who made it and thus the Zodiac.

The Hardens being merely amateur code breakers and NOT being the Zodiac is a far simpler explanation to me.

"The deal is Chappie, if you stated your source to begin with instead of going on and on skirting the issue of answering my simple question then it wouldn’t have gotten to this point. "

Well nobody else seems to have the confusion you seem to have. I don’t see any other members using similar logic as you seem to and assume that unless I explain every single post in detail and add a disclaimer to every post I write saying it isn’t my opinion and offer a source as proof, then they assume and decide I am stating an opinion of my own as if it’s a fact because I had failed to say otherwise.

Maybe you’ll accuse me of not being Welsh tomorrow based on my not declaring I actually am in every post I publish? Maybe you will demand I stop stating as a fact I am Wlesh because you have decided that is nothing more than simply my own opinion as to what Nationality I am as no source is added to show proof? I may only make this claim if I produce for you as evidence official Government issued documentation as proof of claim and do so in every post I publish in the form of a passport number, birth cert photo or National Insurance No.

I mean to be serious Seagull, to me it is blatantly obviously that you are just making the exact same allegations here that you made against me over on Richard Gaik thread in a silly attempt to try and diminish my posts by suggesting they are nothing other than misleading, deliberate and unfounded opinions held by myself which I am trying to pass off as fact. I can only assume (I think I am allowed to make one assumption at least in response)it can be one of two reasons for you doing this. The First is that your not willing to let that dispute drop from Gaik’s thread and move on in favour of holding a grudge and hence here we are again only this time different thread, same allegation as the one made on that thread, or you really are just leaping to ridiculous assumptions based on nothing other than ‘because he didn’t declare otherwise, I therefor assume everything he writes is his claiming to be factual when it’s really derived from his own personal opinions". Seagull I mean this as a compliment to yourself, the second option I know your not stupid enough to use as your basis for reaching a conclusion.
You have twice made that allegation now and I know very well that you know there’s no basis to the allegation your making at all and I can only assume you are doing so because of the disagreement last week on Gaikowski’s thread. I can’t allow myself to think you really are under the impression I was claiming something here as factual when it was theory and opinion held by myself alone, you know better

ENOUGH Welsh, just drop it. I am sure Seagull is not hanging on to anything that happened last week, but more likely stating that you’re are posting away like crazy without following thru on sources, examples, etc. I will bet that in the last 90 days, you have more posts than anybody else. Energy & ideas about the case are good, but posting for posting’s sake is not needed. Instead, spend some of that time researching & providing sources,etc. You made multiple posts, in multiple threads, about some of the same stuff. One example that comes to mind if the kid in SF that was mentioned in the police report as possibly identifying a suspect. As far as your tone and continuing to go back and forth regarding last week’s incident, please end it. Seagull doesn’t have a vendetta against you, and raises some valid points. Please play nice, and follow the rules.

It all boils down to this: is the Zodiac case worth arguing with people over? The answer to that question is no, and if you think otherwise, you have a problem, the solution to which is to step back, take a deep breath and think things over properly before returning to the fray and acting like a rational person.

You know what Morph, I totally agree and echo the exact same sentiments. ENOUGH I most certainly have had. I am done, no hard feelings to anyone and my overall experience here has been very positive and there really are several members who are good people and to the few that asked me to stay in touch in PM last week, you know the email addy. Before I go I just want to point to this situation’s and how I am left in total bemusement at being the one that is deemed to have instigated or been the member that has been here making allegations again with no grounds. Morph, you can tell me enough to the sun no longer rises, I don’t need to explain to any members here that clearly I was having a discussion that was very friendly and Seagull comes charging here demanding to know what ground or sources I am using to make the statements I had.

My response: Provides Seagull with three links that are the sources he asked for as a courtesy and to show I am not doing, as he once again is adamant to try claiming, I am staring my opinion as fact. So, I give the sources. At this point…..
Seagull replies: Ha Ha Ha, and dismisses Tom’s claim I use as one source as old and not his up to date belief, the other he decides and claims is Crimes of the Century episode-1989 so therefor too old to be of relevance then decides he is going to again make accusations against me for stating opinion as fact and I invite every member of this site to read through this thread because clearly it’s complete crap and Seagull knows that. So then I reply, yes I am pissed off after offering the sources to him he asked for to show I am basing my statement on X Y & Z and he responds Ha Ha Ha showing his obviously serious intentions here, and due to pissed off and being a bit obtuse myself, you come charging here lecturing me demanding enough is enough and clearly Seagull isn’t to blame obviously as it’s a Mod. You know what mate, the politics here are almost the same as the other site and the Mods there are the Mods here etc and its just ridiculous. If I am wrong, I have no issue with holding my hands up and admitting it, but on here, and for this specific thread instance especially, how the hell you can justify directing your claims of enough at me is beyond my understanding completely when anyone half a brain cell can see this thread has but one instigator instigating and making idiotic allegations in my direction demanding sources and then choosing to dismiss them as inadmissible as anything pre-1990 doesn’t count cause Idiot decides to say so. Go back Morph and re-read the thread and point out where I initiated an altercation with Seagull, see who instigated and alleged this and claimed that demanding really had an interest in sources or this thread just the throwing. The thing I respected the most about this site (when it was private at anyway) was the fairness and non political alliances. But I do have one apology to make Morph, after reading back over my comments regarding the British vs US cultural gun issue, I instantly realised how judgemental and insulting the post did come across and I assure you that that was never my intension, and I apologise regardless.

But all in all, I have no resentment toward anyone nor hard feelings toward anyone. To members…
Tahoe: Been fun,, productive, educational (Now don’t get too carried away lol) and always argumentative ha. Disagreed on so many issues, never once with any hostility. Honest wish a lot more were like you. Keep up the good work
Smithy, despite your handicap of English Origin (Ha) you understand tongue in cheek humour and done decide to be offended. Top Quality.
Sandy: Respect and indebted to your kind and trusting vouching for me overlooking the fact of Welsh Origin like Zodiac, well, according to the Gospel of St. Fouke at least
Zam, about the PM recently. You know the AOL addy. Same for Sandy, and all other who I can’t go through one by one so happy debating everyone, and take care ttfn.

On a final note, if I do happen to discover Don’s "Welsh ancestry", maybe even the Zodiac himself, i’ll demand "Silence oh nameless one, sit! Now listen, crew cut or no crew cut, i’ve spent hundreds of hours chasing down your name and your damn lucky I don’t punch the living s**t outa you mate if i’m honest…." then obviously i’dd hang up on the astrological one. So, good day chaps and chapesses, over & out….

(shakes head)

The Zodiac case. Serious business.

I was going to pipe in earlier and say something like it seems discord among those interested in The Zodiac has gone on too long and usually means another independent website. Not taking sides here so can either one of you or both just add each other to your foes list to avoid seeing each other’s posts?

I was going to pipe in earlier and say something like it seems discord among those interested in The Zodiac has gone on too long and usually means another independent website. Not taking sides here so can either one of you or both just add each other to your foes list to avoid seeing each other’s posts?

If this had been a discord issue that would be good advice Victor. It wasn’t though. WC was being given advice on good posting practice but at every turn he took it as a slight against himself. He seemed to think that the rules didn’t apply to him. And I quote.

You know what mate, the politics here are almost the same as the other site and the Mods there are the Mods here etc and its just ridiculous.

We will give advice and correct and remind any member of the forum rules when necessary. Unfortunately the rules here didn’t seem to suit WC. He thought they were ‘politics’ and therefore open to interpretation and debate. Perhaps a blog format on his own site might better suit his needs.

So….let’s get this thread back to what it was started for. Thanks.

Trav.

Agreed, let’s get back on topic.

I’ve already forgotten what this thread was about!

Let’s see … the last time I paid attention to this thread was when the book that had Bettye Harden’s alledged signature was being discussed. My understanding is several here believe that signature is authentic. I don’t have enough information to make an informed decision but I trust the opinions of most posters here. So, if it is authentic, imo, the statements seem incriminating in some way, like a veiled secret being put out there. If I’ve misjudged the consensus opinion, please re-inform of your stance.

Does anyone know the height and build of both Hardens? I’ve seen 3-4 newpaper photos of them but they are mostly sitting down. TIA

I’ve already forgotten what this thread was about!

Let’s see … the last time I paid attention to this thread was when the book that had Bettye Harden’s alledged signature was being discussed. My understanding is several here believe that signature is authentic. I don’t have enough information to make an informed decision but I trust the opinions of most posters here. So, if it is authentic, imo, the statements seem incriminating in some way, like a veiled secret being put out there. If I’ve misjudged the consensus opinion, please re-inform of your stance.

Does anyone know the height and build of both Hardens? I’ve seen 3-4 newpaper photos of them but they are mostly sitting down. TIA

Doesn’t necessarily have to be them but could be a family member,friend or Associate. Also wonder did the Hardens suspect someone they knew of being the Zodiac ? I too find that statement made by her incriminating unless she is meaning she figured out his cipher and help to give him his persona.

Also her using shock the world is a bold statement by her. Just wondering since she wrote in Graysmith book and pretty much what she wrote was about him. Maybe she seriously believes he may have been the Zodiac. Crazy thought but that would shock the world.

Let’s remember that Bettye did have some mental health issues. I personally heard her daughter say as such at the 2007 TFM. I do not recall if the illness was specified, at any rate I do not know what form of mental illness it was. The mentally ill can have paranoia and delusions though, so maybe what she wrote in the book should be considered with caution.