I believe I tastefully handled the question and no harm was intended.

Naw, what you said was totally fine, no problems from me. I just used your post as a jumping off point to talk about my stuff, that was not directed at you or what you posted. I tried to say that when I said, "I know that wasn’t your point". Sorry if I was not clear.

Seagull: I guess I missed that part about Donald. I didn’t think her daughter was implying that she had all three things, nor her doctors, just that the nature of those conditions is such that a person could not have had all three and so some of them would have been inaccurately diagnosed.

All that is to say that my original point was that it’s not really relevant, or hard to say if it is relevant because we don’t have a clear idea what she was dealing with. Sorry if I stirred things up or made more out of the issue in trying to make less.

I believe the Hardens acted in good faith, and didn’t really think through the consequences of being threatened for the rest
of their lives by an uncaught serial killer. That is enough to make a person go "crazy". Has anyone compared the writing in Graysmith’s
book at the Salinas Library to Zodiac’s handwriting? Has anyone developed a comparison software with ZK’s handwriting? The "voice" in
the missive in the book sounds more like Zodiac himself, with the bragging, then Bettye Harden.

I know you did mention that the other day Morf. I trust your word enough Morf without needing the Source as proof if you mean you have info regarding how you know Bettye wrote the message, ie, who gave you that info.

If it is the case that Bettye did write that almost without question, then I can’t see how the message can be interpreted any other way other than it being A self incriminating statement. I have heard that Bettye was mentally ill and I suppose some will dismiss the comment based on that but I think she wrote it knowingly and with a deliberate intent.

That’s another thing I found really odd Bettye’s Daughter said at the meeting. She said she hadn’t been back to the old house in years but she remembers where she left the Cipher that her mother had decoded most of (the 340). She said that upon her going back, the Cipher and it’s decryption were no longer there and that she believed "Someone" had beat her to it and removed it a day or so before she got there.

Yes. Or hours. Which, to me, implies she knows who took them. Needs further investigation.

If the 408 code was only (ha – I say ‘only’) examined by the Navy experts (which obviously would have been enough, in the hands of any any trained decoder) then why did the Powers That Be not say that the Navy had solved it, rather than letting the media continue to lie? (I saw one short interview where Graysmith packed in more lies than I’ve seen since Nixon, and this was long after he knew that what he was saying wasn’t true.)

It’s not going to jeapordise the ‘search’ for the Zodiac, and in fact will harm it by more confusion, so why wouldn’t they tell the general public the truth? And wasn’t Don Harden in the military before he was a teacher? I understood he’d had some training in codes.

Either way, I don’t think they solved the codes anyway.

(Paraphrasing) ‘I started the story, and when I end it…’ implies something altogether different to me. It makes me think of the letters. Has anyone seen Leslie’s handwriting? It’s only a thought, but would there even be a Zodiac without the letters?

The simplest explanation is that this is an elaborate hoax. But I don’t think it is. How can that ‘B’ (and several other letters) just happen to be a perfect match? The Zodiac letter was written years before, and so surely the person who copied another’s handwriting would have to be the Zodiac copying a letter that hadn’t been written yet? Or else he had access to letters from her, but how could that be? Or – was the Zodiac psychic too?

(I mean, I think my suspect wrote the letters, but who knows?) I always thought the Zodiac’s handwriting looked feminine, and that some letters were dictated or elaborately traced. But that’s just me. I realise it wouldn’t allow for the deliberate spelling mistakes in the letters which were written faster. And in my opinion only an educated person would know some of the things Z did, or use the symbols which he used.

I too think the pen ran out of ink just before the ‘e’ on the end of Bettye, but it’s impossible to tell. And anyone going to the bother of creating such a good handwriting match would not have left out the ‘e’. Which makes it likely to be genuine.

I think a person would be taking too big a risk to write in a library book, in a library, and so I think there’s a good chance that the person did check out the book, although I think he/she may have used someone else’s card.

I did find some things about this family on line that I don’t feel comfortable about sharing, as I feel I am somehow encroaching on other people’s territory by daring to voice an opinion. The Zodiac will be pleased. Bring back Welsh Chappie!

I can’t wait to read updates from Foreigner and Morph, as well as everyone’s thinking on this. Good luck with this excellent lead.

There is really no doubt that Don and Bettye did in fact solve the 408 first. It’s quite well documented. And once a cipher is solved, there isn’t any point in solving it twice, thrice, or more. The reports verify the Hardens solution.

Bottom line to me is that those two (Bettye especially) were REALLY determined, and worked quickly. There was no particular rush for the Police, Navy, FBI, etc. to "put a rush on it."

Hell, there are people that can solve the New York Times crosswords in no time flat. A determined mind, working 24/7 can always do more than a bored, paid government worker.

-glurk

We know now that plenty of things that are well documented are not true. So that holds no water. Some people, including Leslie Harden, even say that without the Hardens, the 408 never have been solved. Clearly nonsense. Doesn’t she lecture (in Social Policy, I believe) at 3 universities? She is an intelligent woman.

I think it was solved by the Navy. Possibly they didn’t want to release the solution to the public, until their hand was forced by the Hardens, but for various reasons, I’m not buying that either, and think it was a set-up.

And, a serial killer is on the loose in the Bay Area, and yet there’s ‘no rush on’? I don’t think so. Just my take! Fantastic thread, isn’t it? I enjoy your posts.

We know now that plenty of things that are well documented are not true. So that holds no water. Some people, including Leslie Harden, even say that without the Hardens, the 408 never have been solved. Clearly nonsense. Doesn’t she lecture (in Social Policy, I believe) at 3 universities? She is an intelligent woman.

I think it was solved by the Navy. Possibly they didn’t want to release the solution to the public, until their hand was forced by the Hardens, but for various reasons, I’m not buying that either, and think it was a set-up.

And, a serial killer is on the loose in the Bay Area, and yet there’s ‘no rush on’? I don’t think so. Just my take! Fantastic thread, isn’t it? I enjoy your posts.

It’s all water under the bridge now, but I guess you are saying that the Navy code division solved it first (with no plans to release the solution) but then the Hardens also solved it, and then it was released?

Who’s on first?

Doesn’t really matter, now, does it. I’ve always said that even if the Hardens never existed, the cipher would have been solved in days in any case. So, I guess we agree.

-glurk

We do indeed! …Do we get a lollipop….? What about the 340 though? I always wonder if they know more than they’re saying. I suppose we’ll never know unless they decide to tell us. Or until someone solves it online! This is a cognitive vortex.

Bettye does not lecture anyplace, Bettye is dead

Erm, he said LESLIE.

-glurk

(Things get really WEIRD when the person that runs the board doesn’t actually read the posts…)

Erm, he said LESLIE.

-glurk

(Things get really WEIRD when the person that runs the board doesn’t actually read the posts…)

My Bad, that’s from reading the post before drinking coffee

Reposting this from another thread as a reminder of the only direct suggestion (that I know of) that the 408 was solved by 2 different agencies independently of the Hardens:

The Lake Berryessa report has an October 1, 1969 entry stating the cipher was broken independently by at least two different sources:

Any trained cryptologist worth her salt would have been able to crack the 408. It’s just a more appealing narrative to say the Hardens did something the authorities could not have done.

This guy too:

Continued here: viewtopic.php?f=94&t=165&start=10

This guy too:

Continued here: viewtopic.php?f=94&t=165&start=10

I’m going to poke around and see if I can find out who this Guy is.

Ha ha!