Really a great modern technique!

Wouldn’t work in this case though…different pens.

The LB copycat "theory" is so flawed it’s not even funny. However UK gave me an idea for a very simple way to disprove it.

Z’s Candy Cane F.

The 1966 Riverside desktop has one. Years before LB.
The Oct 69 Stine letter has them, after LB.
Also the LB car door has one.

The funny thing is, the Zodiac letters sent before the LB attack doesn’t have them!

So you guys think a Z copycat, copied the style of that F from the Riverside writings, before the Riverside connection was even made? How is that even possible?

An F. Well, there you have it folks!

An F. Well, there you have it folks!

LOL. Best laugh of the day.

Yeah, that candy cane F is as good as a fingerprint. It could ONLY be created by one person on earth.

An F. Well, there you have it folks!

LOL. Best laugh of the day.

Yeah, that candy cane F is as good as a fingerprint. It could ONLY be created by one person on earth.

And most of the time, Zodiac’s looked nothing like the one on the card door.

I’m just trying to wrap my head around all this. You believe that:

-The Riverside Murders were committed by someone other than Z, (killerA)

-Years later Z (killerB) became a copycat of (killerA) going so far as copying the way he sent letters, double postage and handwriting.

-Then a third person (killerC), was responsible for the LB attack, and he was a copycat of killerB. He went as far as copying killerB’s handwriting, but didn’t copy his MO at all.

-killerC also copied the handwriting of killerA, even though his crime wasn’t connected to killerB by the time of the LB attack.

-Then killerB took credit for the work of killerC….
or was that killerD, who sent the Halloween card?

-Z (killerB) his lie was taking credit for the work of killerA and killerC.
and all 3 got away with it all…

Am I following all this correctly? Is this really how this all played out?

I’m just trying to wrap my head around all this. You believe that:

-The Riverside Murders were committed by someone other than Z, (killerA)

-Years later Z (killerB) became a copycat of (killerA) going so far as copying the way he sent letters, double postage and handwriting.

-Then a third person (killerC), was responsible for the LB attack, and he was a copycat of killerB. He went as far as copying killerB’s handwriting, but didn’t copy his MO at all.

-killerC also copied the handwriting of killerA, even though his crime wasn’t connected to killerB by the time of the LB attack.

-Then killerB took credit for the work of killerC….
or was that killerD, who sent the Halloween card?

-Z (killerB) his lie was taking credit for the work of killerA and killerC.
and all 3 got away with it all…

Am I following all this correctly? Is this really how this all played out?

It’s not just an ‘F’, it’s the totality of the Riverside link:

1)Calls to police

2)Letters to Newspaper wanting to be published

3)Use of the word ‘shall’ & same misspelling of TWICH/TWITCH

4)the F

5)Extra Stamps

6)Z like symbol on the Riverside letters

And most importantly,
7)The state’s foremost handwriting expert linking the cases,and the FBI not disagreeing with him

There is more that links Zodiac to Riverside then does not,let alone the Expert linking the cases

I am speaking in regards to Lake Berryessa at this point.

Many have their own ideas as to who might have done the crimes, who might have only written letters, who might have claimed crimes he didn’t commit, not claimed crimes he said he did. Etc., etc.

There were hundreds of fake letters written–some better than others. For those who believe Ross Sullivan was Zodiac, Morrill said the 1978 letter was real–and if you believe him and you believe Zodiac was Ross then there is the point I am trying to make. There were f***ed up people out there. People that for whatever sick reason liked to pull this shit. Why? I cannot tell you! But there were some who were damn good at their craft.

People like to copy others. It was true before Zodiac’s times, just as it is today. This is why the media plays such a big part in influencing all of this BS we see happening over and over today.

SOMEONE (even many) got a kick out of what Zodiac was doing. This is a fact. I think the person at LB very well was one of these sickos. Not a copycat, but someone who used and admired Zodiac’s gall.

Someone, imo, was riding off of Zodiac’s coattails. I think one person out there was quite successful at it.

For those who want to believe exactly what they read, more power to you! I believe what I believe and maybe that will change in the future. I have just come to a different conclusion about things after looking more closely, instead of just assuming everything is as we have been accustomed to believe.

I’m choosing not to get argumentative about it anymore. It’s my personal perspective and if you think it’s ridiculous…fine by me. Try not to let it upset you!

Bottom line….Zodiac was often full-of-it. This thread = How many confirmed lies? Hard to know! It was his game…confuse with a bunch of truths and lies…misdirect. He did it well.

Who’s talking about Ross? The questions in this thread involve Zodiac and if his Riverside claims are lies or misdirection.

Many members still seem to completely disregard the idea that there could even be a Riverside connection. If anyone can’t at least give it a 1% chance as a possibility then they are simply not looking at the case objectively.

I’m totally open to the idea of a Zodiac copycat committing one or more of the murders, but I’ve never seen any evidence that this is realistic. Most of these copycat theories start to unravel quickly when exposed to even a basic level of scrutiny.

Who’s talking about Ross? The questions in this thread involve Zodiac and if his Riverside claims are lies or misdirection.

Many members still seem to completely disregard the idea that there could even be a Riverside connection. If anyone can’t at least give it a 1% chance as a possibility then they are simply not looking at the case objectively.

I’m totally open to the idea of a Zodiac copycat committing one or more of the murders, but I’ve never seen any evidence that this is realistic. Most of these copycat theories start to unravel quickly when exposed to even a basic level of scrutiny.

I think the reference to Ross was meant as an example regarding the handwriting experts. If we believe Morrill is infallible, Z cannot be Ross, and I think Ross is pretty high on some peoples’ lists (particularly because of his very substantial ties to Riverside, the Riverside library, the suspicions of the library staff and his brother, his mental instability and violent outbursts, and so on.)

I’m not disputing Riverside connections. I’m disputing the Zodiac who killed with a gun at LHR, BRS, and PH, and then bragged about it in his letters, being the same guy who killed at LB with a knife, and didn’t brag about it. No need to be redundant – I’ve posted my reasoning already in this thread.

Here’s another thought. I don’t believe this, but for the sake of discussion… Suppose LB, and the Halloween card, were the work of Zodiac. To him, LB being a knife murder is very important, and he mentions it on the car door. Later, he diagrams the whole Tim Holt Death Wheel thing, "By Knife, By Gun, By Rope, By Fire" in the Halloween card.

Well, at Lake Herman Road and Blue Rock Springs, he did it "By Gun." Now at Lake Berryessa, he’s done it "By Knife." Then, just 2 short weeks later, he claims his next victim and proves it with his typical letter, and this time even a piece of bloody shirt. So… why was it "By Gun?" He already had 3 murders by gun. To complete the death wheel, he didn’t need another one of those.

Why didn’t he strangle Paul from the back seat with a rope, for instance? Or call for a cab to some remote location, force the guy into the trunk, and burn the cab? I mean, just sayin’. Wouldn’t one of these methods fit the new pattern established at LB much better, if it was the same guy, than another common gun murder?

…The questions in this thread involve Zodiac and if his Riverside claims are lies or misdirection.

That wasn’t my take from the first post in the thread.

Who’s talking about Ross? The questions in this thread involve Zodiac and if his Riverside claims are lies or misdirection.

Many members still seem to completely disregard the idea that there could even be a Riverside connection. If anyone can’t at least give it a 1% chance as a possibility then they are simply not looking at the case objectively.

I’m totally open to the idea of a Zodiac copycat committing one or more of the murders, but I’ve never seen any evidence that this is realistic. Most of these copycat theories start to unravel quickly when exposed to even a basic level of scrutiny.

Before I knew anything about Ross,I believed Z was in Riverside in 66-67.

This has gone off topic, so what the heck. I find it hard to imagine that LB was not Zodiac, but on the other hand there were at least 4 other known Zodiac copycat murderers. And of course the most famous New York Zodiac even claimed that he was the original California Zodiac.

I think it unlikely that he would let someone else take credit for his crimes, but who knows? The whole thing is nuts. He will take credit for murders that he didn’t commit, but wouldn’t it be better to deny murders that he actually did do? The only crime he ever denied was one that no one ever accused him of.

Everything he said was a lie. If it was in a letter and about what he threatened to do its a lie the only truth is when he calls police or sends a letter claiming responsibility other than that everything is a lie. There is exceptions. freudian slips he made in his letters that give him away. Like the cat and mouse game he played trying to get everyone to guess his name. While in his other life he changed his name as often as the wind blew..Larry!!

The Zodiac almost certainly didn’t kill 37 people. He was a braggart who enjoyed domestic terrorism. He didn’t actually claim 37 victims, what he said was Me – 37. It simply depends on how you interpret this. His previous totals predominantly came with a crossed circle.

Even though I do believe he has killed more than 37 and has not stopped yet, when I first saw he wrote the number 37 I took it as a screw up for the yr he was born or his age at that time and when he realized that was too much of a clue he added "SFPD" 0 me 37.

I don’t believe that he lied about his name being in at least two of the cypher’s, he turned at least one of the symbols" backwards" to make it nearly impossible to figure out. For instance the / he turned that one it changed it from a K to the letter "R". I also believe that Kathleen John’s escaped Zodiac and was the best witness of all who survived.
The composite seen on Deasy’s desk that no one that I know of has ever commented on besides myself, could have been one given by Kathleen Johns. It is the side of the face that she would have seen of her abductor.

Hartnell saw him covered in a costume, Mike M saw him perhaps in the car that was parked at Blue Rock Springs, before he left and returned then put a bright light in Mike’s face before shooting him. Mike could have gotten a glimpse of him as he walked back to his car, but didn’t really get a good enough look to ID him in a police line up if he would have been given one. At least I don’t think so? ( The short part I believe was correct , the hair and the car )

The teens in SF and the two officers did get a pretty good look ,even though neither were very close to the suspect.The size of the suspect in SF contradicts the description and size of the man at Lake Berryessa, the costume made him appear taller, but the foot prints where that of a much heavier man than the suspect in SF.
For me I have to say that the only way that could happen is that there were two Zodiac’s working in tandem, both knowing each other very well, perhaps related ? Like the cousins in LA the hillside stranglers. In this case one prefers a knife to a gun.
Bottom line do I think Zodiac ever lied? Of course he did but which were lies? I believe that one was his birthday being Dec 18th., another was I don’t believe he planted a bomb.I do believe he told the truth about wearing a disguise , I believe it was a wig not the glasses. I have no doubt that he had to wear glasses and that Cecilia saw them under the clip on sun glasses.

His ego got in the way of him writing that he would no longer announce to anyone who or when he killed. Because he did it later anyway, but you have to understand compulsion, his ego was so huge that he had to read about himself, he did his best to keep quite but couldn’t. I am very sure that he has continued to write from time to time and to call the police to confess some of his murders even now. But because he hasn’t sent proof, he is thought of as a wanna be or just some hoaxer.Why wouldn’t he want the attention he so craves? He is very afraid of today’s technology and really does not want to be caught. So he has to settle for what he has been doing without sending proof , just to avoid being caught.

I think that he wants to go down in history like Jack the Ripper has. Lets not give him that satisfaction and get the lying coward caught !