The lake Berryessa sketch bothers me the most. Whether it’s just a coincidence or a bad sketch, it bothers me all the same.

It’s not very artistically drawn that’s for sure, but what if they found the guy and there was a darn good resemblance? It could turn out it actually looks more like the guy than the composite! (long shot I know)

It’s very hard to imagine someone matching both sketches which opens up a can of worms.

The lake Berryessa sketch bothers me the most. Whether it’s just a coincidence or a bad sketch, it bothers me all the same.

It’s not very artistically drawn that’s for sure, but what if they found the guy and there was a darn good resemblance? It could turn out it actually looks more like the guy than the composite! (long shot I know)

It’s very hard to imagine someone matching both sketches which opens up a can of worms.

Indeed. The squirming truth.

Spongebob Squarepants did it. Those specs never fooled anyone.

Spongebob Squarepants did it. Those specs never fooled anyone.

I hate to tell you but there are a lot of holes in your theory.

Soze

Pet rock skycaps.

That’s what irks me the most. And they’re everywhere too.

There’s a healthy number of things that I see (and I’m sure I’m not alone in seeing them) as major deterrents to this case actually getting solved.

Graysmith. The lack of proper DNA. The lack of overall evidence in general. Ambiguous things such as the bootprints and gloves. A lack of things irrefutably tying Z to a murder besides Stine’s shirt and perhaps the car door. The lack of recorded description of Zodiac without his mask as seen by Cecilia Shepard. The lack of call recording at VPD.

But to be quite honest, the biggest blunder, the biggest goof occurred on October 11, 1969 when Z narrowly escaped the scene of his final established murder. Zodiac was SO close to getting caught. He had 3 or 4 blue meanies responding to his crime almost immediately. No one, including myself, can say for sure, but there is a very high chance that Zodiac was seen by at least two police officers. If indeed the call made by dispatch was that Suspect was a BMA, that may be the exact focal point of the futz-up. This would have, if Donald Fouke is being honest when he says he saw a WMA and didn’t talk to him, been the deciding factor; Fouke would have stopped, possibly shone more light on the mystery WMA, talked to him and possibly even brought him in for questioning. Armond Pelissetti too shares at least a little blame here; he spoke to a WMA (Kjell Qvale, if AP’s statements made 30-odd years later to one of the Mikes investigating this case) barely around a corner or two from the scene and didn’t bring him in for questioning. I’m sorry, but that’s just the kinda guy you haul in for exactly that. Anyone found in the area immediately after the crime, even witnesses, should be talked to extensively, or so one would assume an investigator would think. I know that this opinion of mine may be tempered by hindsight, and I always have to remind myself to remain in the mentality of what investigators and police had on their hands in 1969…
Which brings me to one last problem. In most circumstances, that night would have done him in and we’d honestly have a completely different opinion of him. Had he been caught after killing Stine, he could have never sent the shirt, and would have been known for 5 murders, 2 assaults, 4 letters (including the 3-part cipher) and a car door. Still bad, but the letter-writing part wouldn’t have been so prominent. Instead, Z turned into something else. The fact that Z never HONESTLY copped to another murder (if he committed any more) by providing details and/or evidence to prove his guilt (which we knew he was already capable of and was his point in writing, anyway) allowed him to continue writing, taunting, provoking and, ultimately, leading those interested on many wild goose chases. While we are not wrong to look at Z’s post-Stine letters as key evidence, there is so much extraneous material in this case, much of it provided by Zodiac no less, that leads investigators or curious parties astray.

I wouldn’t say that I’m irked that it isn’t solved, since that’s what interests me in the first place, and if it ever is, I’ll likely never lose interest, but I have to say that now that I’ve learned all that I have about the case itself and the research done by multiple parties, I’m bothered by something different. If an internet community of, all due respect, amateur sleuths, can stumble upon great finds like Ross Sullivan, George Saxberg, etc. then imagine the potential power resting in the hands of those who can actually ascertain information, files, whatever necessary to crack this case. Imagine having the ability to do what is done on this site and others, but done with access to fingerprint/arrest databases, mugshots, all of the unreleased Z material (if there is any, I’m not clear on that)…

Special shout out to the ignoramus who cost Toschi his job at SFPD by writing the ’78 letter. I for one don’t think Toschi wrote it, although it didn’t help him that the guy investigating a high-profile serial killer writing letters to the SF Chronicle WROTE LETTERS TO THE SF CHRONICLE.

I wouldn’t say that I’m irked that it isn’t solved, since that’s what interests me in the first place, and if it ever is, I’ll likely never lose interest, but I have to say that now that I’ve learned all that I have about the case itself and the research done by multiple parties, I’m bothered by something different. If an internet community of, all due respect, amateur sleuths, can stumble upon great finds like Ross Sullivan, George Saxberg, etc. then imagine the potential power resting in the hands of those who can actually ascertain information, files, whatever necessary to crack this case. Imagine having the ability to do what is done on this site and others, but done with access to fingerprint/arrest databases, mugshots, all of the unreleased Z material (if there is any, I’m not clear on that)…

Good points. We can only do so much as amateur sleuths. We don’t have legal tools or power to investigate. We don’t have access to all of the case files,suspects,evidence,etc. Lastly, there is no ‘Zodiac Cop’ with the sole job of investigating Zodiac, and only Zodiac. Quite frankly, this is not likely to be solved. Very frustrating.

Ross was known and investigated by RPD. They just apparently did not think he was that good of a suspect. Assuming that their case files were read by the Zodiac detectives, they didn’t think so either.

I wouldn’t say that I’m irked that it isn’t solved, since that’s what interests me in the first place, and if it ever is, I’ll likely never lose interest, but I have to say that now that I’ve learned all that I have about the case itself and the research done by multiple parties, I’m bothered by something different. If an internet community of, all due respect, amateur sleuths, can stumble upon great finds like Ross Sullivan, George Saxberg, etc. then imagine the potential power resting in the hands of those who can actually ascertain information, files, whatever necessary to crack this case. Imagine having the ability to do what is done on this site and others, but done with access to fingerprint/arrest databases, mugshots, all of the unreleased Z material (if there is any, I’m not clear on that)…

Good points. We can only do so much as amateur sleuths. We don’t have legal tools or power to investigate. We don’t have access to all of the case files,suspects,evidence,etc. Lastly, there is no ‘Zodiac Cop’ with the sole job of investigating Zodiac, and only Zodiac. Quite frankly, this is not likely to be solved. Very frustrating.

Morf,
I share your pessimism about this case’s solution. The more time passes, the less likely it seems. I do hold some optimism because of the identification of many missing persons , unidentified remains, etc. but in my gut, Z will likely always be "crackproof" unless we somehow come up with a better way to identify a person than DNA.

BUT….
About the Zodiac cop…I do understand there is no man dedicated to this…but do you feel that there might be a better chance if there was a team of sorts?
I don’t mean like Toschi and Armstrong, all due respect to what they did. I’m talking about a small specialized group working on cold cases that is assigned perhaps one or two cases at most, similar to specialized military groups such as SEALS, Rangers, etc.

Do you think that make any difference? Just a question/thought.

My favorite irk? The Riverside Police Department.

My favorite irk? The Riverside Police Department.

They might just actually be the most professional out there.

Information is not supposed to be shared and who knows the amount of muck put out there from the stuff that has been. While WE ALL like and appreciate the documents we have been able to see, not sure how much it has helped the case(s).

I think the "unknown" about Riverside leads many to believe they are blindsided or they believe the words of someone in the P.D. who says "we have our guy". Maybe there is a reason the R.P.D. wants people who contact them to believe that.

But it’s your right to be irked.

People that are burnt out on the case and get aggressive with other users or patronize them (particularly new users). If it’s no longer fun then leave. If obsessing over the Zodiac makes one a surly trolling chump then one should really take up another hobby like gardening.

Don’t think I’ve ever personally thought it as fun.

nonsense theories. we have probably 500 pages of "evidence" and some of the theories, based on none of the evidence, defy both logic and a sense of how people operate.

nonsense theories. we have probably 500 pages of "evidence" and some of the theories, based on none of the evidence, defy both logic and a sense of how people operate.

(I think) I agree with what your saying but I see the whole case as a total lack of evidence. Somehow over the years, speculation has become fact to some extent. The case has been scrutinized to the ninth degree for some 40+ years, yet to my knowledge we’re no closer to a resolution (and due to time passage we may actually be further away from closure).
I sure would like 24 hrs. locked away in the basement of the SFPD beside the filing cabinet marked ‘Z’!