‘IF’ Zodiac was the guy seen watching the sunbathing girls, he likely did not follow them to the lake,but rather was stalking out the area and stumbled across them

I’m almost certain he had a pair of binos on him.

Nin (my my, that’s a long post!), yes, he could have been following them for a long period, and again, been fortunate that they ended up at Berryessa, and at a very private part of Berryessa, where he could attack them. Perhaps he was prepared to follow them wherever they went that day, and would have attacked them, say, if they’d gone into SF, just the same?
Personally, do I think so, though. I think it was the setting at the lake which he knew and liked, so I’ll go along with the stalking line, I think. He staked out the lake, and was looking for a couple to attack who fitted his Zodiac Profile, IMO.

So was he the same guy who was looking at the girls? I wonder how many horny guys were checking out girls in bikinis at the Lake that day (or any other day.)
If that was the guy who later attacked Bryan and Cecilia, was he thinking about trying to knife one of the girls then? Not a couple? And was just patient until he realised that they were all going to remain in one group?
No, I think he was after a couple, so wouldn’t have been looking at a group of girls for very long. Not as long as that guy. Again, JMO.
I wonder why that guy didn’t come forward to be eliminated. He had a wife? A girlfriend?

Binoculars seem like a reasonable idea. But to use them he’d have to have been at the lake shore, otherwise the spot they were in was secluded. No?

‘IF’ Zodiac was the guy seen watching the sunbathing girls, he likely did not follow them to the lake,but rather was stalking out the area and stumbled across them

Not to forget that Cecilia had ties to Riverside..also this crime was quite prepared..

QT

FWIW… The victims could not be seen from the road, in fact (as best I recall) you would have to hike down a ways before you would spot them. About three quarters of the way down there is a hill/plateau overlooking the site where one could easily observe the couple below. (if he spent time stalking)
In order to reach them without being seen you would have to circle around to the right (natural pathway) down into a dip. "Zodiac Island" (where they were) is a raised piece of ground. Ergo…when Celilia spotted him for the first time (coming out from behind a tree) is virtually the first time she could have seen him,as he was coming up over a rise.
It really is a fair hike down to the actual site, which he may have been willing to do on spec, however, I’ve always thought that he must have spotted them (perhaps passing) on the road above. I’ve never heard of anyone asking Brian if he noticed any cars passing (maybe around the time they were pulling in) but then again, it’s probably not something he would have been concentrating on.

The first Cecelia saw of Zodiac was coming out from behind the tree. We have seen many photos of the area and it appears that there was not much brush or low growing vegetation on that spit of land. So how did Zodiac get into position behind that tree without being seen approaching the area? There did not seem to be the type of vegetation where one could sneak from bush to bush to get there. Could he have been laying in wait behind the tree for anyone to come along?

Cecelia saw Zodiac walk down the hill from the road, onto the island, and disappear out of sight behind a tree. According to Dave Collins, Cecelia told him when he arrived on scene: "Bryan and I were laying here on the blanket just talking and enjoying the afternoon, and I saw this guy, he was coming down the hillside and he seemed to stop and watch us for a little while, he’s looking at us."

Collins: How far away, what distance?
Shappard: Over there (Points to an area on the hillside)
Collins: That’s between two to three hundred yards away?
Sheppard: That’s where I first spotted him. I would look away and talk to Bryan, glance back up and notice he was getting closer, and closer and pretty soon he was within 50 to 100 feet of us and I told Bryan ‘That guy has come down here (Bryan reaffirms this part of their conversation in his own testimony). I looked up again and saw him step behind a tree. He stepped out seconds later and when he did, he was pulling a hood over his head."

Collins even claims that Cecelia gave him a description of the man she saw before he had stepped behind the tree and placed the hood over his head.

Collins: What race was he?
C.C: White.
Collins: What colour was his hair?
C.C: Brown
Collins: How tall, I’m 5 ‘ 10
C.C An inch or two taller than you
Collins: How much did he weight?
C.C: He was overweight…. Bulky looking. He wore all dark coloured clothing, dark pants, dark shirt, dark Jacket and the Jackset was the bulky type.

An easy explanation would be if he drove by them as they were getting out of the car. He would know for sure it was a couple and have a good idea on the direction they went.

An easy explanation would be if he drove by them as they were getting out of the car. He would know for sure it was a couple and have a good idea on the direction they went.

A very logical explanation. I like it.

For the record, I DON’T think (had he parked there) he could see them from his car. BUT, I do believe he would have been able to see them no problem had he walked to the edge of the hill and looked down. A fine vantage point.

So was he the same guy who was looking at the girls? I wonder how many horny guys were checking out girls in bikinis at the Lake that day (or any other day.)
If that was the guy who later attacked Bryan and Cecilia, was he thinking about trying to knife one of the girls then? Not a couple? And was just patient until he realised that they were all going to remain in one group?
No, I think he was after a couple, so wouldn’t have been looking at a group of girls for very long. Not as long as that guy. Again, JMO.
I wonder why that guy didn’t come forward to be eliminated. He had a wife? A girlfriend?

Same guy, IMO. And no, I don’t think he was thinking of going after the girls. I reckon he was after a couple, but got carried away with a little ‘birdwatching’.

If it wasn’t the same guy, and you’re wondering why he didn’t come forward, Smithy, my answer to that question is the following: more often than not, nobody comes forward in cases like this. Not necessarily because they have something to hide, but because they don’t care. The average person is not that civic minded.

Of course, the best explanation as to why he didn’t come forward remains the explanation that he WAS the perp.

The first Cecelia saw of Zodiac was coming out from behind the tree. We have seen many photos of the area and it appears that there was not much brush or low growing vegetation on that spit of land. So how did Zodiac get into position behind that tree without being seen approaching the area? There did not seem to be the type of vegetation where one could sneak from bush to bush to get there. Could he have been laying in wait behind the tree for anyone to come along?

Cecelia saw Zodiac walk down the hill from the road, onto the island, and disappear out of sight behind a tree. According to Dave Collins, Cecelia told him when he arrived on scene: "Bryan and I were laying here on the blanket just talking and enjoying the afternoon, and I saw this guy, he was coming down the hillside and he seemed to stop and watch us for a little while, he’s looking at us."

Collins: How far away, what distance?
Shappard: Over there (Points to an area on the hillside)
Collins: That’s between two to three hundred yards away?
Sheppard: That’s where I first spotted him. I would look away and talk to Bryan, glance back up and notice he was getting closer, and closer and pretty soon he was within 50 to 100 feet of us and I told Bryan ‘That guy has come down here (Bryan reaffirms this part of their conversation in his own testimony). I looked up again and saw him step behind a tree. He stepped out seconds later and when he did, he was pulling a hood over his head."

Collins even claims that Cecelia gave him a description of the man she saw before he had stepped behind the tree and placed the hood over his head.

Collins: What race was he?
C.C: White.
Collins: What colour was his hair?
C.C: Brown
Collins: How tall, I’m 5 ‘ 10
C.C An inch or two taller than you
Collins: How much did he weight?
C.C: He was overweight…. Bulky looking. He wore all dark coloured clothing, dark pants, dark shirt, dark Jacket and the Jackset was the bulky type.

Yes, well, it’s too bad that Collins did not find this information important at the time and get it into the record when it would have counted the most instead of waiting almost forty years to think to divulge it. It makes me wonder if it’s true or not.

Yeah it does make you raise an eyebrow at it only being told in 2007. Like Officer Fouke up, who said, Quote: "Suspect did seem to put his head down when he spotted the Police Car, and turned into the entrance way of a house, by entrance way, I mean stairs that are concrete that lead to a path that leads to a front door" House? What house? Who wandered up concrete steps? Suspect did? Towards a home? And this wasn’t reported at the time? What?? Lol

Although I kinda give Collins a bit more benefit of the doubt due to him arriving first on scene confronted with a young man half way up the embankment and blood probably leading from the picnic spot to where he now is, and a girl, barely out of her teenage years, covered in blood with several clear and large knife wounds visible all over her torso and groin, rocking back & forth In tears and in agony (Of all the Victims, Cecelia is the one I feel for the most for what he did to her, and how long she was in pain). Maybe, and it’s a big maybe, Collins was so overcome with shock, sympathy, despair, sadness etc that he genuinely wasn’t thinking straight. Seeing Cecelia like that would have thrown my sense of official duty and nature would have taken over and I’d be trying to comfort her as best I could, and only to find that she succumbed to her injuries a couple of days later, that must play on your mind and have a serious effect on you and you brains ability to focus on what you should be recording and just go into utter shock mode and a feeling of total helplessness. come over you.

So Collins, benefit of the doubt. Officer Fouke Up, can’t be so understanding in his case.

Again, these are just my opinions and the way I look at it.

Park Ranger Dennis Land was the one who found Bryan Hartnell trying to walk/crawl to the road not Collins. It was Land who put Bryan in his truck and drove him back to the crime scene.

http://www.zodiackiller.com/LBReport6.html

I believe it was Collins who road in the ambulance with Cecelia and Bryan along with the ambulance attendants. Somebody correct me if I’m wrong, please!

Park Ranger Dennis Land was the one who found Bryan Hartnell trying to walk/crawl to the road not Collins. It was Land who put Bryan in his truck and drove him back to the crime scene.

http://www.zodiackiller.com/LBReport6.html

I believe it was Collins who road in the ambulance with Cecelia and Bryan along with the ambulance attendants. Somebody correct me if I’m wrong, please!

I believe you are correct Seagull. I’m not 100% on Collins riding in the ambulance…would have to go back and read.

As far as Collins account, eh. If he DID question Cecelia as he said he did, he WAS thinking, but then decided it "wasn’t important"? I don’t buy it. This is just another example of how the case rubs off on people and they embellish their stories…or other people’s accounts…and make it their own.

Why get such detailed info and them dismiss it and not include it in your report? I think Collins was enjoying the spot-light a bit.

An easy explanation would be if he drove by them as they were getting out of the car. He would know for sure it was a couple and have a good idea on the direction they went.

A very logical explanation. I like it.

Nice. Yes, he would have had to have been lucky to pass by in just those few minutes (seconds?) when they were decamping from the VW and going over the stile(?) down to the lakeshore, but it’s possible, ain’t it.
Seagull – yes, you’re right, and I think you’re right too, T., that those involved went a little bit Hollywood when Fincher pointed a camera at them.
Nacht – I to-and-fro on the idea of peeper-as-perp. The description from the girls and the Doctor and his kid are close enough to make it interesting. I need to go back and figure out where the Doctor was, when he saw "that guy".

Wier, your post about the trip down to the site from the road sounds very first-hand. Is it?
If going down from the road to the site logically brings you in from the direction Cecelia first saw their attacker, then perhaps it goes some way to confirming the idea that he came down from the road.

Wier, your post about the trip down to the site from the road sounds very first-hand. Is it?
If going down from the road to the site logically brings you in from the direction Cecelia first saw their attacker, then perhaps it goes some way to confirming the idea that he came down from the road.

Yes, it is first hand. It is difficult though to draw definite conclusions as to where one would naturally end up having entered the area from the road above. It’s a wide open expanse and you could choose to picnic in any number of spots. That said, (again as best as I can recall) if you were to choose to head to the waters edge "Zodiac island" seemed to be the natural spot to head to. If you were a stranger to the area you wouldn’t know that or realise it until you walked down a fair bit. The natural path then is to approach the island via the "dip" on the right hand side. One thing we do not have that would be very helpful is local knowledge of the area at the time.
I think Brian once said they were heading to a place where he had been before but couldn’t find it and they ended up here. It would in my view, make a whole heap of difference between a known picnic spot and a isolated suitable spot they just happened upon. It could have been either.