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Victims = 7

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Quicktrader
(@quicktrader)
Posts: 2598
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Topic starter
 

Hi,

my girl (lovely, from St. Petersburg) mentioned a detail on the Dripping Pen card. There Z mentions

Dec
July
Aug
Sept
Oct
=7

possibly starting his deathcount with this card. Now I wonder, actually had been the victims. The card was sent in November 1969:

Dec – Jensen/Faraday
July – Ferrin
Aug – ???
Sept – Shephard
Oct – Stine

So I count an overall of five victims. It is not possible that Z had mentioned Hartnell and Mageau being a victim. Not only that he probably had followed his crimes in the newspaper, but als he mentions August as a month of his activity.

In August, however, there are no known Z victims yet. There was the double murder of Furlong/Snoozy, however, but Karl F. Werner pleaded guilty to this crime.

So my question is – who are the 1969 August victims of Zodiac?

QT

http://zodiackiller.com/340Card.html

*ZODIACHRONOLOGY*

 
Posted : December 15, 2013 3:51 pm
(@anonymous)
Posts: 1772
Noble Member
 

It is possible the months list is not chronological and we have
Dec-Jensen and Faraday
Jul-Ferrin
August-one victim
Sep-Shepard
Oct-Bates and Stine
6 victims, one remaining for August.
But Zodiac was not claiming the Cheri Jo Bates murder, according to his Bus Bomb letter the following day. Its X’s can be lined over a map to to claim 5 murders. The last two X’s point to two individual murders in the direction shown.

The Zodiac always seeked attention. Another scenario is he may have attributed two victims in August that he never committed, but claimed ie Leo and Rosemary LaBianca on August 10th. Later to be linked to the Manson Family.
Another possibility is If you look at the Los Angeles Times letter, it is the first time the Zodiac uses the plus sign after the murder count, almost apologetically and belatedly adding in Cheri Jo Bates and Domingos/Edwards to the Halloween Card count of 14, to get 17+. The plus sign signifying this addition, to account for his ‘there’s a hell of a lot more down there’ and ‘Riverside activity’.
But of course if these murders were included, 8 murders would have occurred by November 8th 1969. And none of them in August.
The Zodiac should have written Des, July, Aug, Sept, Oct = 7+. But may’be he did at the foot of the 340 Cipher.

 
Posted : December 15, 2013 4:55 pm
(@nachtsider)
Posts: 367
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Creepy to relate – Lindsey Cutshall and Jason Allen were murdered thirty-plus years later in August.

 
Posted : December 15, 2013 8:53 pm
duckking2001
(@duckking2001)
Posts: 628
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Yeah, I just figured that they were the Werner victims. He hadn’t been caught yet at the time and wasn’t that pretty much what the police thought saying something like "those were the only unsolved homicides in the area for that month." Maybe BS on that last part, but I don’t buy Z for being part of the Manson Family, especially not claiming their actual crimes if he really was. and he never claimed any "down south" other than Bates, which is not exactly LAC.

 
Posted : December 16, 2013 7:52 am
Tahoe27
(@tahoe27)
Posts: 5315
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Yeah, I just figured that they were the Werner victims. He hadn’t been caught yet at the time and wasn’t that pretty much what the police thought saying something like "those were the only unsolved homicides in the area for that month." Maybe BS on that last part, but I don’t buy Z for being part of the Manson Family, especially not claiming their actual crimes if he really was. and he never claimed any "down south" other than Bates, which is not exactly LAC.

I agree with this.

Since Zodiac didn’t write these (or any) August victims on Bryan’s car door…I call any August killings bs.


…they may be dealing with one or more ersatz Zodiacs–other psychotics eager to get into the act, or perhaps even other murderers eager to lay their crimes at the real Zodiac’s doorstep. L.A. Times, 1969

 
Posted : December 16, 2013 12:37 pm
Quicktrader
(@quicktrader)
Posts: 2598
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Topic starter
 

Personally, I wouldn’t call Z’s statement bs that fast. First, he could have committed other crimes in other states than Califorina, e.g. Nevada. And overall we still have about 1,600 unidentified bodies in California, with some more still to be found. And, finally, in 1969 police did actually not (until today) digitalize many missing reports. The number of (digitally known) missing people from 1945-1969 is about one tenth of the following 25-30 years only.

I do believe that Z had killed to more people in August, imo the question is just – whom? Also I still would not exclude the Manson family as being connected somehow to Z. They had a flat in Haight-Ashbury and was there a hippie camp north of Lake Tahoe, too. The word ‘pig’ was written on the refridgerator at the Tate La Biancha murders. Nevertheless – I somehow do believe that Z, if connected to that crimes, would have mentioned it in at least one of his letters. Instead, the next day after the murder there the code key letter (concerned citizen) is sent to Sgt. Lynch.

http://www.zodiackillerciphers.com/?p=224

QT

*ZODIACHRONOLOGY*

 
Posted : December 16, 2013 5:22 pm
traveller1st
(@traveller1st)
Posts: 3583
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Personally, I wouldn’t call Z’s statement bs that fast. First, he could have committed other crimes in other states than Califorina, e.g. Nevada. And overall we still have about 1,600 unidentified bodies in California, with some more still to be found. And, finally, in 1969 police did actually not (until today) digitalize many missing reports. The number of (digitally known) missing people from 1945-1969 is about one tenth of the following 25-30 years only.

I do believe that Z had killed to more people in August, imo the question is just – whom?

QT

That is the question. I don’t trust Z to tell the truth but I can’t trust him not to either in this instance, no matter how vague. He follows up on the amended bus bomb diagram with "PS I hope you have fun trying to figgure[sic] out who I killed". That bothers me because it suggests he’s aware of the recent ‘vagueness’ of his claims in the dripping pen letter and the increased count in the Belli letter. It’s hard to know though what, if anything, it implies. Is he saying, good luck because there aren’t any victims to find or because he knows that they might not find them, or at least struggle to, because of something we don’t know?

Like, out of state, as QT mentions or something else. It’s also a bit annoying that these ‘hints’ start appearing after his last known kill and not in between any of the attacks. This tends to make them seem less likely to be real although they are at least slightly more info than just a number in a tally.

I say that the hints started after his last attack but, as with all things Zodiac and depending on your opinion, that might not be strictly true. He has done that before with the confession letter in the Bates case. "She is not the first and she will not be the last". In a way, if not necessarily giving confirmation, he is at least consistent to that when he adds in the ’71 letter’s semi-admission to involvement "There are a hell of a lot more down there".

He could be mixing truth with lies, or at least misdirection. I don’t trust him and as such I can’t rule out his claims either.


I don’t know Chief, he’s very smart or very dumb.

 
Posted : December 16, 2013 5:46 pm
(@entropy)
Posts: 491
Honorable Member
 

I really think that an implicit claim of the murder of Deborah Furlong and Kathleen Snoozy on August 3rd fits Z’s equation perfectly. This murder of two young girls occurred over the weekend that Z promised a "kill rampage". It was publicly speculated in the newspapers as a possible Zodiac crime and was unsolved at the time he sent this card. They fill out the equation of DES JULY AUG SEPT OCT= 7 and would help to make the empty threat to kill a dozen people over that weekend look slightly less ridiculous.

 
Posted : December 16, 2013 8:54 pm
 Soze
(@soze)
Posts: 810
Prominent Member
 

Quick,

I know you have done a lot of work putting together and listing missing people/unsolved crimes. Did you ever put together a list of possibles for the August mention on the card while you researched? If so could you share the list?

Thanks.

Soze

 
Posted : December 28, 2015 10:30 am
(@endoftheworld)
Posts: 236
Estimable Member
 

If the Z was Kaczinsky it could have been anywhere in the Northwest since this was supposedly time he spent looking for land with his brother. Maybe he slipped away from David briefly and did some killing. This would explain why he didn’t name the August victims— maybe his brother suspected something. Then, in this scenario, he returned to SF for his grand finale (Stine).

 
Posted : December 28, 2015 10:56 am
(@eduard-versluijs)
Posts: 198
Reputable Member
 

I found an unsolved murder in California in August the year before (1968):

James Michael Gardner, age 21, Aug. 7, 1968 Sometime between 12:30 and 2:40 a.m., the Santa Ana resident was riding his motorcycle on the southbound San Diego Freeway, just north of the Ward Street overpass, when he was shot with a .22- or .25-caliber handgun or rifle. His body was found by California Highway Patrol officers, who initially believed he had been involved in an accident. Evidence that he had been shot was uncovered only at the autopsy, when several bullets were found in his body. There were no suspects.

BTW. It happened in Fountain Valley (=water connection?)

 
Posted : December 30, 2015 3:20 pm
(@eduard-versluijs)
Posts: 198
Reputable Member
 

Could it be that James Michael Gardner was shot by accident? There was a shooting range "just a stone’s throw from the San Diego Freeway". The San Diego Freeway is just outside the left of the picture. Than we can rule him out as a Z-victim (or you have to believe in the theory that Z was actually a cop).

 
Posted : December 30, 2015 4:48 pm
(@eduard-versluijs)
Posts: 198
Reputable Member
 

Here is a view of the former location of the shooting range today.

 
Posted : December 30, 2015 5:03 pm
(@coffee-time)
Posts: 624
Honorable Member
 

More details in the articles below. Police initially thought Gardner had first been struck by a car — then the killer got out of the car and shot him.

 
Posted : December 30, 2015 8:09 pm
(@coffee-time)
Posts: 624
Honorable Member
 

Ulp, this one says Gardner was shot BEFORE he fell from his bike.

 
Posted : December 30, 2015 8:16 pm
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