It would be gross incompetence on their part to merely take his word for it.
If we go exclusively by the info given in the press release, that’s exactly what was done.
Well, that’s the other damnable thing about the release, if there is a definitive DNA link, why not just say so clearly? It almost sounds like they sympathize with his being a “troubled teenager”, almost like their saying, “chalk it up to another case of ‘boys will be boys'”.
Seems like Zode graduated in 1964. I’d think he’d be too old to qualify as “a young teenager.”
Shumway didn’t believe that any of the letters were from the killer. He was openly skeptical of Sherwood Morrill, and he didn’t think the L.A. Times letter was sent by Zodiac. That was in the 1990s. So I can’t say it’s shocking that RPD would disavow a Zodiac connection, because that’s exactly what they’ve been doing for years.
Prior to this announcement, Shumway’s position was not supported by any of the released evidence and just seemed extreme. Unless they’ve been holding some things back, it’s hard to see how the strength of RPD’s conviction could be consistent with the evidence.
I think the evidence is limited. I understand Sherwood Morrill’s handwriting analysis is not the kind of strong evidence we thought it was. But even the harshest critique of the known evidence doesn’t jibe with the RPD attitude. They’ve always had a reluctance about it as if they imagined there was something physically restraining Zodiac from leaving the Bay Area.
It’s hardly an incredible thing to suggest that two unsolved murders might be connected. Surely the correct and reasonable attitude to take, if you are not gigantic contrarian, is to consider the evidence, scant though it may, and consider the possibility of a connection. Total rejection on the basis of such weak evidence is no more justified than total acceptance. Such a skeptical attitude from RPD does more to hurt their credibility.
If they acknowledged that there is at least a modicum of evidence, they would greatly increase their credibility. Instead, they act as if the connection is some ludicrous concoction of the internet. This makes RPD sound like bigger cranks than half of this forum.
There is a very dubious technique involving getting someone with a recording device to lead the person into talking about crime. Usually the opposite sex showing extreme interest. The honeypot trap. There are countless examples of suspects going along with it, probably because they like the girl/boy, and admitting to all sorts of stuff, but later proven not to have committed the crime because the actual culprit matching the evidence gets found.
Read about Colin Stagg who was charged with the murder of Rachael Nickell, it went to court, but the case was thrown out because of this trap. So investigators thought it was him.
Turned out to be the serial killer and rapist Robert Napper, who has Asperger’s and paranoid schizophrenia, but still yet managed to get away with it for awhile.
www.zodiachalloweencard.com has a 400 paged book for free containing the super solution with an overarching explanation of the cards and more.
Turns out the Zodiac did NOT write the CJB murder letters. Turns out it was some other guy name Zodiac.
That was too much!
Why shouldn’t there be multiple people as you stipulate?
It is possible to have multiple actors, but is it likely in this case? We know at least one person must be responsible, but any more than that we must speculate because there is no evidence of these people. Manson’s group worked more or less under his orders and could not shut up about Charlie’s efforts. They also murdered known family companions in addition to total strangers. Manson murderers were caught fairly quickly – but this (these) murders are long long cold cases.
If the recovered watch from the CJB crime scene were proven to belong to a second actor than the knife wielder, that would be good evidence for accomplice. Non-Zodiac forensic data on the CJB letters, that would be more good evidence for multiple actors. The actual culprit of the CJB murder confessing and being confirmed as the perp would be the best evidence.
The case could theoretically have more actors, but do we stop at two, or three or more? And how are they all keeping so quiet all these years? And how can they keep quiet if they are working in concert together?
The multiple actors idea, for me, just has “too many moving parts” to borrow an engineering flaw.
However, the truth tends to be counter-intuitive for the Zodiac.
That was too much!
Why shouldn’t there be multiple people as you stipulate?
A corollary point: when the Green River Killer was at his frenzied height in Seattle, the Green River Task Force developed and seriously considered the idea that they were investigating two or maybe three overlapping serial killer cases. The sheer number of victims drove them to think this.
But the Green River Killer was just one, low-status, retreating male who worked a menial job and knew to switch up his murder vehicles every now and then.
That was too much!
@coffee-time To be fair, Sherwood Morrill has been contradicted in his findings regarding Zodiac time and again by other respects document examiners.
“Murder will out, this my conclusion.”
– Geoffrey Chaucer
I’ve been thinking more about the connections. The first confirmed communication from the Zodiac came in the form of three letters. The wording of each letter was adjusted slightly for perspective. There were three Bates Had to Die letters, the last one to her father was adjusted slightly for perspective. That’s not a huge coincidence, but then again maybe it is? I mean, I suppose it could happen… well then again. I can’t decide. Three letters, it’s small, but it’s specific. There is no reason it couldn’t be a coincidence but think about the timing. It’s not like there were other letters between this triplicate set, it came chronologically straight after the Bates Had to Die set of 3, that is a striking coincidence when all aspects are considered.
Again, the January 1969 ‘Inside Detective’ magazine published the contents of the Bates case letters, included images, etc.
Zodiac COULD HAVE read that magazine, and known the details of Cheri’s case- even using it as an example for his own letters(mailing 3 letters, multiple stamps, same misspellings of Twitch and Squirm
That’s right. But that creates possibly the most bizarre of all possible scenarios, one in which the writer of the Bates letters presages the Zodiac by using the “Z” like symbol, and then Zodiac copies the Bates letters. It’s possible, but it’s quite extraordinary. And then someone still killed Cheri Jo, so you end up with three different people all involved in this kind of circular game of copycat. It just seems very circular, like the logic loops somehow. I suppose it doesn’t.
Let me think about this for a minute, the Zodiac copies the Bates case, the “Z” is either a coincidence or contributed to the Zodiac’s choice of name. I suppose technically the only thing really odd about it is the “Z”. Wait, I think I know what’s unlikely about it, why would the Zodiac include so many subtle hints to the Bates case? It could only be because he wanted people to connect him to it, but then if that is the case why wasn’t he a bit more overt and eager for the connection to be made. He could have been inspired by the idea of writing letters, without having to copy the Bates case in such a way that it connected him to it, yet instead, he planted subtle clues that only work if you know about the Bates case. No, it just seems arse backwards.
It would be gross incompetence on their part to merely take his word for it.
If we go exclusively by the info given in the press release, that’s exactly what was done.
It’s fair to say that the press release itself is grossly incompetent.
Zodiac COULD HAVE read that magazine, and known the details of Cheri’s case
Stepping back a bit, which makes more sense?
- Zodiac read about the CJB crime and was inspired to become a serial killer, adopting the trappings of the CJB crime for his own crimes and even taking credit for that unsolved crime.
- This stipulates two killers 1) Cheri Jo Bates’ psychopathic killer and 2) the later, inspired Zodiac killer psychopath.
- In some speculative scenarios, this also prompts a third actor – another person who wrote and sent the CJB murderous letters entirely apart from the former two.
- Zodiac committed the CJB crime, and continued “evolving” those behaviors into the Zodiac persona.
- This is neater in that stipulates only one killer, and does not force us to speculate about copy-catting, or who wrote the letters
I always felt the Zodiac took inspiration from the Whitechapel Murders panic. Zodiac could use both I’m sure.
Exactly. The first scenario is possible, but it seems to be the more unlikely of the two.
You also have to believe in multiple letter writers. Either two hoaxers and one killer, or one hoaxer and two killers. But at least two of them must have written letters.
Thinking about other hoax cases, I can’t think of any in which the actual killer also wrote letters as well as the hoaxer. The mere fact that the real killer is known to write letters greatly reduces the likelihood of a hoaxer. Letter writing is a known behavior of the killer, it is something they do regularly, this means that there is much less reason to doubt the authenticity of any letter related to the case. And I might add, especially before things become famous. You have a famous killer who writes letters and they appear to be connected through their own writing to another case in which letters were written that was not famous and therefore would not be as likely to attract a hoaxer.
If the RPD is right, it’s really an incredible story. I mean, these things happen. I love hearing amazing stories. But the Zodiac case has already had so many plot twists, and I just don’t know if I can swallow this one.
The “Bates had to die” letters were not mentioned in that magazine. If there’s a mention anywhere prior to Avery, please let Michael Cole know so he can update the next edition of his book.
There you go.
I know the “Z” has a little squiggle that looks a bit like a “3”, and I know that a squiggly “Z” is not the same as “Zodiac”. I get the limitations of the evidence, really I do. But think of what the letter writer has to foreshadow and presage here. They have to foreshadow that a killer would emerge who would use a name starting with “Z”, who would commit broadly similar crimes, in the same state, and who would also write letters. Meanwhile, totally independent of this, another individual has written a separate letter, the Confession which also foreshadows the Zodiac letters, but in different ways.
Now the coincidences themselves are not so very amazing. Consider the coincidences individually:
- The “Z” has its limitations but is still quite compelling.
- The shared words in the Confession are kind of tricky since they’re not uncommon words, but they are also not common either and are really not such a tremendous coincidence at all.
- Similar thoughts, like the reference to a “game” found in the Confession again, sounds like a bit of coincidence, but when you read other hoax letters, you’ll see that the theme of a “cat and mouse game” comes up a lot in these kind of hoaxes. The Ripper letters have it, the Wearside Jack letters, the Axeman of New Orleans is playing a sort of game. It’s a common theme.
So I get that the coincidences, on their own, are not so incredible as they seem. However, it is the way the coincidences must connect, in order to be true coicidences. You have to have two separate hoax writers, independently creating these coincidences that point forward to a real Zodiac who does not yet exist. It would be like John Humble writing as Peter Sutcliffe before Peter Sutcliffe had even committed his first murder.
It’s this kind of tangled web of coincidences, that occur simultaneously and chronologically in the reverse of what you would intuitively expect. It’s this web that as a whole creates one big coincidence that is quite extraordinary.
If RPD is right, this “troubled teenager” is nearly as interesting as the Zodiac himself.
